SPLIT: What is your opinion of the Quran and other religious books?

[Hboggs]

To be truthful, I’m just not interested. Leaping from protestantism to Catholicism was a long (many years) journey for me and I know that I am in “the true place”. The Quran, BOM, Watchtower, and whatever, I do not recognize as the word of God so I don’t care enough about those writings to do more than skim them. Therefore, I have no other opinion of them.
:twocents:

In my opinion well said.

I’m always curious why there is just silence from the moderate, are there any, muslims regarding those who in large numbers advocate terror. There is no room for tolerance in this apostate cult and I suspect the next major world war will be between those who advocate islam and those who don’t. If I’m still here I know what side I’ll be on.

 

[ManOnFire]

Majority of Muslims poor and uneducated . Virtually impossible for them to make a critical study of the claims of the Koran .
Even if they did succeed they would be immediately charged with blasphemy. They do ’ nt have freedom of conscience.

I see practicing Catholicism as being in the middle: On one side are those who choose to use Free Will to attempt the gluttonous glorification of Self. They are the non-practicing practical-atheist Christians who have been converted to the lifestyles which are dictated by the unelected pop culture media. On the other side are Muslims who have no Free Will because they are forced to submit. Their book instructs them to commit violence against dissenters in an attempt to force others to submit. That’s why we’re in the middle if we Free Willingly choose to resist the shallow gluttonous pop culture: there’s no need for us to be forced to submit if it’s our Choice. Practicing Catholicism is where Freedom and Free Will are happily married.

 

[GraceDK]

[No message]

 

[schaick]

You say you’ve read and studied the Quran, and you also say that Muslims want almost all people to become Muslim. According to several Muslims I know, that is simply not true since, as I’ve noted, Islam respects other religions. Moreover, don’t some forms of Christianity (perhaps Protestantism more than Catholicism in the modern era) want everyone to become Christian as well? You might argue that it is not by violent or deceptive means, and the goal is compassion and salvation of one’s soul. I agree about the goal, but history proves the means to have been rather violent and deceptive at times. But that’s a topic for another thread. However, if you study the Old Testament, you can find several violent passages there as well, counterbalanced by more conciliatory verses, just as in the Quran. I simply don’t buy your argument, as I feel you are examining Islam through the non-neutral, subjective lens of your own faith and politics. Admittedly, it is difficult for any of us to examine anything except through subjective interpretation, but let’s at least make some effort. Incidentally, I also don’t buy your statement that the purpose of the Old Testament is to show the history of man in his immorality and the reason why we need Jesus! If you got that one wrong IMO, how can I trust your interpretation of the Quran? Nonetheless, thank you for the quotations; perhaps our discussion will stimulate me to read the text for myself.

According to the Quran they aren’t even to be friends with you.

Then they are not following the Quran to the letter. Mohammad’s MO- while your numbers are low- play along with everyone nicely. As muslim numbers increase - then take control, subdue and collect the tax.

Of course Chrisitans want everyone saved through Christ. We are to teach and make disciples. We are not to kill those that wish to not join Christianity. Whoever does not love one to Christ but uses force is not following in Jesus’ footsteps. The Gospel and Jesus do not condone violence- the Quran does.

Of course you don’t, my percpetion of the Old Testament is from the Christian viewpoint. Laws were given to keep the nation of Israel on the right path to GOD and we see many times people falling off the path. GOD ordered violent ends to specific people of specific times and places for specific reasons.

 

[meltzerboy]

According to the Quran they aren’t even to be friends with you.

Then they are not following the Quran to the letter. Mohammad’s MO- while your numbers are low- play along with everyone nicely. As muslim numbers increase - then take control, subdue and collect the tax.

Of course Chrisitans want everyone saved through Christ. We are to teach and make disciples. We are not to kill those that wish to not join Christianity. Whoever does not love one to Christ but uses force is not following in Jesus’ footsteps. The Gospel and Jesus do not condone violence- the Quran does.

Of course you don’t, my percpetion of the Old Testament is from the Christian viewpoint. Laws were given to keep the nation of Israel on the right path to GOD and we see many times people falling off the path. GOD ordered violent ends to specific people of specific times and places for specific reasons.

Fair enough, and at least we’re keeping our disagreements civil, which is a major accomplishment on some of these threads. I’m at a disadvantage here because I haven’t read the Quran so I don’t have enough “ammunition” (so to speak) to discuss the issue. It’s hard for me to believe, however, that a major religion such as Islam (doesn’t the word itself mean “peace”?) advocates violence and destruction. Your first statement about the Quran’s stating that Muslims are not supposed to be friends with non-Muslims is also echoed by the Torah in Judaism: Jews are not supposed to associate too much with non-Jews. There are Jews today who subscribe to Torah (Orthodox) Judaism, and who believe we should not mingle or be friends with gentiles. I am not one who believes this, however. But, needless to say, Jews are not bent on the destruction or, for that matter, conversion of non-Jews.

 

[GraceDK]

Fair enough, and at least we’re keeping our disagreements civil, which is a major accomplishment on some of these threads. I’m at a disadvantage here because I haven’t read the Quran so I don’t have enough “ammunition” (so to speak) to discuss the issue. It’s hard for me to believe, however, that a major religion such as Islam (doesn’t the word itself mean “peace”?) advocates violence and destruction. Your first statement about the Quran’s stating that Muslims are not supposed to be friends with non-Muslims is also echoed by the Torah in Judaism: Jews are not supposed to associate too much with non-Jews. There are Jews today who subscribe to Torah (Orthodox) Judaism, and who believe we should not mingle or be friends with gentiles. I am not one who believes this, however. But, needless to say, Jews are not bent on the destruction or, for that matter, conversion of non-Jews.

Meltzerboy.
Islam means “submission”. Read the Quran, and then read the Hadith which is the also athoritative reports on Muhammads life whom every Muslim is called to imitate, because Muhammad is seen as the greatest prophet and a perfect human being (no original sin etc) Muhammad married a 6 year old, had sex with her when she was nine, had opponents assasinated in horrible ways… he massacred all the men of a Jewish tribe even after they had surrendered to him … interesting that he had all the men beheaded, (if you were wondering why the jihadists do this distasteful thing to innocent UN-workers today) their wives and children sold into slavery. Muhammad had severel wives and was paranoid. He even had a pregnant lady killed, and he told people never to have mercy on someone whom they wanted to stone to death.
I assure you he wasn’t a nice feller. He grew increasingly hostile to Jews in particularly when he found out he couldn’t convince them he was a true prophet. To this day child-brides are given away to 40-year old men many places in the Middle East and polygamy, stoning for adultery and cutting off hands (for theft) is practiced in imitation of Muhammad. Then… the status of a wife, whom, by the way Muhammad also said you could hit if she was disobedient… in Islam there is death penalty for blasphemy or for changing to another religion… couple that with the nature of Islam as both a political and religious system … and you better wake up to the seriousness of the situation.
The Jews in Europe face an increasing amount of harassment and cases of anti semitism in the same rate as Muslim immigration increases.

 

[schaick]

Fair enough, and at least we’re keeping our disagreements civil, which is a major accomplishment on some of these threads. I’m at a disadvantage here because I haven’t read the Quran so I don’t have enough “ammunition” (so to speak) to discuss the issue. It’s hard for me to believe, however, that a major religion such as Islam (doesn’t the word itself mean “peace”?) advocates violence and destruction. Your first statement about the Quran’s stating that Muslims are not supposed to be friends with non-Muslims is also echoed by the Torah in Judaism: Jews are not supposed to associate too much with non-Jews. There are Jews today who subscribe to Torah (Orthodox) Judaism, and who believe we should not mingle or be friends with gentiles. I am not one who believes this, however. But, needless to say, Jews are not bent on the destruction or, for that matter, conversion of non-Jews.

My pray is that Christians would always be civil with you. We are taught in Scripture that Christians believe we have been grafted onto the olive root, Israel. As a kid I always wanted to be Jewish- to be more like Jesus.

Yes exactly, but Islam is really more of an ideology. To really understand Islam you must also read hadith [the sayings and actions of Mohammad] and sharia law [based on the Quran].

I would say a majority of Muslims want sharia law. That would be an interesting question to ask your friends.
nku.edu/~kenneyr/Islam/Reliance.html
Here is my favorite ruling! LOL!::
The indemnity for the death or injury of a woman is one-half the indemnity paid for a man.
The indemnity paid for a Jew or Christian is one-third of the indemnity paid for a Muslim. The indemnity paid of a Zoroastrian is one-fifteenth of that a Muslim.

** I sure am glad Muslims believe in equality for all!**

There is also the Pact of Omar to read:
fordham.edu/halsall/source/pact-umar.html

The life of a dhimmi - subdued non-muslim:
We shall clip the fronts of our heads.
We shall always dress in the same way wherever we may be, and we shall bind the zunar round our waists
We shall not display our crosses or our books in the roads or markets of the Muslims. We shall use only clappers in our churches very softly. We shall not raise our voices when following our dead. We shall not show lights on any of the roads of the Muslims or in their markets. We shall not bury our dead near the Muslims.
We shall not take slaves who have been allotted to Muslims.
We shall not build houses overtopping the houses of the Muslims.

Islamic compassion:
48.29 Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.

 

[dusty_david]

You can’t help it. You Europeans are weak. The Guardian says a study from the Pew Research Centre on religion and public (pewresearch.org/pubs/1872/muslim-population-projections-worldwide-fast-growth)

more than a quarter of all new immigrants to the UK in 2010 are estimated to be Muslim. These groups largely migrate from former colonial states, specifically Pakistan, Bangladesh and India. According to the study, the UK had a net inflow of roughly 64,000 Muslim immigrants in the past year and will continue to serve as a destination for Muslims. In fact, the study says that the UK is expected to have the largest increase in the number of Muslims in Europe in the next 20 years. The number of Muslims in the UK is projected to almost double from 2.9 million in 2010 to 5.6 million in 2030. By 2030, Muslims are expected to make up 8.2% of the UK’s population, up from 4.6% in 2010.

Once Muslims make up over 8% of your population, the UK will have no choice but to bow to Islam. Kiss St Paul’s Cathedral goodbye. Here in the States, African Americans are over 12% of the population (censusscope.org/us/map_nhblack.html). That’s why you will not find white people in government or business jobs here. It’s hell.

Sorry, being sarcastic.

 

[elwill]

For whatever reason, elwill has not answered my question. So I will provide my own…

elewill’s post was misleading, imo. The name “mohammad” may only appear 4 times, but the man is referred to many times, such as “Allah’s messenger.” So what elwill said is not true.
The Koran is obsessed with several things, imo, including an almost worship of Mohammad. He is king among the prophets, based on his religion.

As far as the number of times Mohammad or his alleged prophet title is referred to in the Koran, if I am wrong (and I could be), please correct me.

hi , LtTony
sorry for not answering your question . i didn’t logged in this forum since many days

the question in the first place was about contents of the quran , whether it contains Mohammed’s diary !
my answer which i’m sure it’s true is that quran isn’t about his diary at all

i thought it will be valuable to mention you that the quran which contain over 600 pages mentioned mohammed (pbhu) as a name four times only can be slightly used as a proof that the core subjects or the main purposes of this book isn’t about Mohammed (pbuh) life and his diary

you were perfectly right when you said that the name “mohammad” may only appear 4 times, but the man is referred to many times, such as “Allah’s messenger.” , but still right that quran isn’t about his diary

if you wanna to know somthing about mohammed’s diary and his life then you can find it in ahadeeth not in the quran

i hope this answer may satisfying you

 

[Jason1776]

The Catholic Church is a continuation of the Jewish faith.

 

[JHow]

…I’m here to warn you of the 4 M’s: the manipulative machinations of the mainstream media.

I like that turn of phrase. I will have to remember it and find a thread to use it in.

However, have no fear. I wasn’t born yesterday. I have no particular faith in the media

 

[Moro_Rock]

Why not take a six month break from London to Iraq or Egypt or Sudan or Saudi Arabia or any of the countless countries where it is dangerous to practice any faith other than Islam ? You might then decide to convert to Islam ?

 

[LtTony]

For whatever reason, elwill has not answered my question. So I will provide my own…

elewill’s post was misleading, imo. The name “mohammad” may only appear 4 times, but the man is referred to many times, such as “Allah’s messenger.” So what elwill said is not true.
The Koran is obsessed with several things, imo, including an almost worship of Mohammad. He is king among the prophets, based on his religion.

As far as the number of times Mohammad or his alleged prophet title is referred to in the Koran, if I am wrong (and I could be), please correct me.

hi , LtTony
sorry for not answering your question . i didn’t logged in this forum since many days

the question in the first place was about contents of the quran , whether it contains Mohammed’s diary !
my answer which i’m sure it’s true is that quran isn’t about his diary at all

i thought it will be valuable to mention you that the quran which contain over 600 pages mentioned mohammed (pbhu) as a name four times only can be slightly used as a proof that the core subjects or the main purposes of this book isn’t about Mohammed (pbuh) life and his diary

you were perfectly right when you said that the name “mohammad” may only appear 4 times, but the man is referred to many times, such as “Allah’s messenger.” , but still right that quran isn’t about his diary

if you wanna to know somthing about mohammed’s diary and his life then you can find it in ahadeeth not in the quran

i hope this answer may satisfying you

Thank you for the reply, elwill.
So we agree that the Koran refers to your prophet many times, but only four times by his name, Mohammad.
I never referred to the Koran as the “diary of Mohammad.” I think your characterization of the hadith as more of diary is correct.

 

[AveChriste11]

What do you mean the Tanakh contains books we do not use in our Bible? As far as I thought, the Protestants have all of the books which the Jews use in their Old Testament. They simply reorganize those books differently with Psalms and Proverbs in the middle, instead of at the end…

 

[Moro_Rock]

Y’mean to tell me that in Belfast the Protestant militia have been going into churches during Mass and mowing the congregation and priests down ?
that the paramilitaries have been flying over large gatherings of Catholics out in the open and shooting them down(as shown by EWTN a couple of years ago in Sudan ) that they’ve been raping the women and forcing them to become Protestant, and stealing Catholic children and turning them into child soldiers against their own people ?
Then there’s Saudi Arabia where you could be facing a long prison term for carrying a Bible or for meeting up with other Christians.
No, I don’t think a trip to Belfast would provide the same ambience !

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

(Edited)

Out of interest, what is your opinion of the Koran and the Bhagavad Gita?

Koran - Probably something I would read once I find myself a decent copy of A Thousand and One Nights. (Anyone care to help me with that?)

Bhagavad Gita - It was mentioned a bit in one of my philosophy classes but frankly the only thing that tugged at my attention was how it was inspired the concept of the avatar.

 

[curtish1947]

Hi,

This is going to be a little hard to do, without your trying this out.

So, in my readings I have read the Koran. In my experience it is a critical dissertation on The Bible. Thus it says both Judaism, and Christianity are wrong.

The general theme is Judaism and Christianity is wrong. The tacit message is We Are Right.

The tacit message appears by the standard technique of slander. The tacit message is I am not like them, I am the opposite, yet the only statements that are made is how wrong the other guys are.

…Curt…

 

[curtish1947]

Now we go to probabilities, not for a proof, but only a possibility.

In short Hinduism, which has a few Avatars grew in power from 300 t0 600 AD. The Religion has (some say) beginnings into the 5000 BC range. Negating that, there is still a small possibility that authority was needed.

Authority is usually your own proofs, your credentials, your office, or the office of the one you represent. Avatar gives people authority, until it is proved wrong, or unless it is discarded by the reader…

All personality disorder types, ((DSM-IV)) manual, lie to control people, and using a dream from God, or a talk from God, or an affilitation with God, or an affilition with one of God’s messengers is a common tool used to get authority.

Authority gives a person power. Power over others is the goal of Personality Disorder types. They will usually live spartanly, some need gradiose conditions, or total power, but they all try and get at least one person as their slave. The group is characterized by no remorse.

(((The most common understanding of this, to the ordinary experience person, is the way crooked Politicians act. If you understand and know that group then you can start to understand and know Personality Disorder types. They in themselves and not with party or political affiliations, or the masses, act like crooked politicians. The only thing to remember in this in Personality Disorder types act alone, as their public relations department, and their advertising department, but other than one person acting alone, they totally mimic the actions and goals of crooked politians or leaders, in my experience. ))

Thus, the Avatar idea, is just a standard Mode of Operation for Personality Disorder Types to get authority, thus followers, thus slaves to their goals.

The other items of interest which suggest this are, the high manipulation of the truth, the invention of new words, the invention of new ways of saying things, the constant put down of all that is not in their plan, and the brilliance with which this is carried out. All of these features are standard in Personality Disorder Types.

On the subject of brilliance, the very best of these types, are never found out. They not only are that bright, at doing what they do, they are that good as actors, they also typicaly have amazing memories.

Thus, the most positive correlation I have so far, is the not-disproven guess, that Avatar evolved by borrowing the Hindu concept, to give authority, thus power by belief, to the formative stages of the religion.
…Curt…

 

[catharina]

(Edited)

Out of interest, what is your opinion of the Koran and the Bhagavad Gita?

The Koran exists as a religious text for one of the three monotheistic religions.

IOW, the Catholic Church has long recognized that only
Jews, Christians and Moslems worship only ONE God.

I can reconize the value of the Koran (Quran) in that way.

However, other texts (from Hinduism, Buddhism, LDA, etc.)
hold no value for me. Only Jews, Christians and Moslems
recognize the fact that there is ONE GOD.

This has been Catholic teaching for the entire 65 years of my life.

 

[LaFleurDeLis]

I have recently began looking into Islam and the Quran. A simple curiousity stemming from everything I have learned about the Catholic Church through RCIA. Once I have read through the Bible completely, I would like to read the Quran. I don’t wish to ever convert, I only want to see what it is they truly believe and how much it relates to Christianity.

Does anyone recommend a particular version? Perhaps one with notations?

In God’s Grace,
LaFleurDeLis