SPLIT: What was Mary really like?

  • Thread starter Thread starter oldmary
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
O

oldmary

Guest
i don’t want to offend anyones faith at all. theologically my knowledge isn’t great but after having researched mary recently for a part i’m about to play, it’s left me wondering whether we should take into account the time the bible was written. a time of patriarchy. we live within patriarcy now so i imagine it was even more extreme then. could it be that the documentation of Mary is from a patriarchal perspective, thus missing out on much of the detail (and not featuring much). As we enter a time where we are looking to the past with fresh perspective, listening to voices that have been rendered silent for so long, giving voice to minorities etc is there any scope to do that with the telling of this part of history. for example, and i really don’t want to offend, just stimulate, could it be that when mary was told of her immaculate conception, she might have had more to say. she was very young at the time and i can’t image it was that easy for her to accept. even if she didn’t voice it out loud she would have had an internal monologue. nowadays she would have had opportunity to tell her story to numerous reporters but back then when she probably didn’t have a voice she probabley did shut up and put up. i think its time to start thinking about the dual struggle that she must have had, and to give it a platform. thoughts please - more to help me reconcile how to play her.
 
could it be that when mary was told of her immaculate conception
First problem, Mary wasn’t told of her immaculate conception. The Immaculate Conception is the dogma that Mary was born without Original Sin so she could be the vessel for Christ to be born in. Of course I know what you are referring too so just take it as a lesson.

What is written in the Bible is really all that matters on the affair, Mary asks how this is possible showing that she was a virgin at that time and then accepts the request/command of God. To attempt to put words into Mary’s mouth that she never said would be heretical in my opinion; especially if they are doubtful words after she had agreed to be God’s vessel.

Besides, from what we are shown of Mary she didn’t seem to be antagonistic toward her son Jesus. When he went missing she panicked and searched for him like any loving mother, when she needed of her sons divinity she was not afraid to come to him and request his help.
 
Oh brother. Really?

Maybe you should reconsider playing Mary if you cannot do so without having to ‘rethink’ her.

Mary, conceived without sin, was perfectly holy and perfectly aligned with God’s will. Her great trust in God allowed her to accept his will and the Annunciation of her special role in bearing the Messiah.

Play a humble, holy girl full of virtue and you will have captured Mary.
 
The Bible was written in times when human “personalities” and feelings were far less important than we consider them now. It does not record Isaac’s reaction to being bound and nearly killed by his father, for example; and Joseph, arguably the most significant adult male in our LORD’s life, is mentioned only in passing, even his death unrecorded.

For that matter, Scripture records very little of the life of our LORD Himself! Taking all the Gospels together, we have an Annunciation, a birth, a finding in the Temple, three years of adulthood, death, and Resurrection. About one-tenth of a life that was 33 to 39 years long!

So the lack of description about Mary is in character with the rest of Scripture.

ICXC NIKA.
 
If you really would like to know Mary check out"The Glories of Mary".
temcat.com/L-4-Reference-Library/Answers/THE%20GLORIES%20OF%20MARY.pdf

Here is a quote from that document. I loved finding out about Mary. “The Glories of Mary” is so beautifully insightful!

Thus, from the beginning of her life, Mary knew God, and knew Him so that “no tongue” (as the angel declared to Saint Bridget) “will ever express how clearly this Blessed Virgin understood His greatness in that very first moment of her existence.” And thus enlightened, she instantly offered her entire self to her Lord, dedicating herself, without reserve, to His love and glory. “Immediately,” the angel went on to say, “our Queen determined to sacrifice her will to God, and to give Him all her love for the whole of her life. No one can understand how entire was the subjection in which she then placed her will, and how fully she was determined to do all according to His pleasure.”

Hope this helps!
 
The thread was locked when I originally read it…

If you honestly want to do research, pick up “City of God” by Mary of Agreda. It’s four volumes. You’ll probably want to read the first two. While some of it is filtered through a medieval filter, there’s more than enough there to get you thinking.

There’s also an abridged version; I haven’t read it, but you might try that instead. The book itself-- some parts are difficult to slog through (like the preface), or frustrating and annoying (like the part on ensoulment in v1). Other parts can be devoured ten or twenty chapters in one sitting.

Good luck with your part.
 
Its the Gospels of our Lord Jesus Christ - not the witnessing of Mary or the witnessing of Peter or the witnessing of any of the other disciples - everyone is a bit player except for Jesus whom the Gospel is written about that we should all come to believe in him.Sure we would like to know more about the other people in the gospels but thats not what they were written for.People loose focus of the point of the Gospels and want to magnify others - they are the testaments of Jesus Christ and if it happened today all would be bit players again.

Yes it would be nice to know more of the others but it doesn’t belong in the Gospels and there are plenty of books written about the others go to the book store and buy one.
 
thankyou for such swift replies, you have all given me lots to research and think about. i will probably come back to you at some point. i’m not really religious, but i am open to it. is it possible that you might pray for me?
 
thankyou for such swift replies, you have all given me lots to research and think about. i will probably come back to you at some point. i’m not really religious, but i am open to it. is it possible that you might pray for me?
Absolutely you will be in our prayers. And if you’re an actress, don’t forget to say a prayer to the patron saint of actors --St. Genesius.
 
i don’t want to offend anyones faith at all. theologically my knowledge isn’t great but after having researched mary recently for a part i’m about to play, it’s left me wondering whether we should take into account the time the bible was written. a time of patriarchy. we live within patriarcy now so i imagine it was even more extreme then. could it be that the documentation of Mary is from a patriarchal perspective, thus missing out on much of the detail (and not featuring much). As we enter a time where we are looking to the past with fresh perspective, listening to voices that have been rendered silent for so long, giving voice to minorities etc is there any scope to do that with the telling of this part of history. for example, and i really don’t want to offend, just stimulate, could it be that when mary was told of her immaculate conception, she might have had more to say. she was very young at the time and i can’t image it was that easy for her to accept. even if she didn’t voice it out loud she would have had an internal monologue. nowadays she would have had opportunity to tell her story to numerous reporters but back then when she probably didn’t have a voice she probabley did shut up and put up. i think its time to start thinking about the dual struggle that she must have had, and to give it a platform. thoughts please - more to help me reconcile how to play her.
The Bible tells us that Mary was exhalted by her Son Jesus and raised into heaven. Jesus the King has made Mary his Queen. Mary is Queen of Heaven and Earth. Don’t forget that.

Queens in the Old Testament were always the mother of the King. There are twenty seven Queen Mother’s in listed in the Bible. As King of kings, Jesus is no different. As King of kings, Jesus’ queen is his Mother Mary.

Mary is not an oppressed woman without a voice in a patriarchal society. Mary is a Queen with a crown on her head. Mary is the Queen of Heaven and Earth. Mary is an advocate on behalf of her royal subjects before her Son the King. That was always the role of the queens in the Old Testament. That is Mary’s voice.

-Tim-
 
I was recently considering this question as I was trying to make sense out the many appearances of Mary such as at Lourdes and Guadalupe and others. I came to the conclusion that the best representation of Mary comes from her own words in the 1st chapter of Luke’s Gospel

“My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
my spirit rejoices in God my savior."

And it goes on from there. But my impression is that Mary loved God. In a very enthusiastic way that she communicated to Jesus from the day he was born. She was also very much part of the Jewish tradition that looked forward to the day God would save the people of Israel. And she believed she had an important role in that plan for salvation… and so she did

Jim
 
Queens in the Old Testament were always the mother of the King.
Actually, it was the Davidic line that had queen mothers; other countries, and the Northern Kingdom of Israel didn’t have that custom.

Although it’s true that we see Mary as Queen, I think the question is what she was like during her life (and, in particular, at the time of the incarnation). Scholars guess she may have been 13 or so at the time of the incarnation. What would a 13 year old girl be like who just found out that she was chosen to be the mother of the most important person in her country’s / people’s entire history? Thrilled – disbelieving – excited – scared – in awe (after all, she just had a visit from an angel of God!)!!! Don’t forget, though – she’s also being told that she’s going to be pregnant before the official beginning of marriage. These days, there’s still a bit of negative vibe – but back then, that was just about fatal!

So, for Mary, you’ve got this incredible mixture of “this is the most amazing thing ever!” and “this is the most scary thing ever!”. Internal monologue? Yeah… probably running at super-sonic speed. TV interview? Not likely – she ran off to be with her cousin, who lived far enough away that it took days to get there …
 
if she didn’t voice it out loud she would have had an internal monologue. nowadays she would have had opportunity to tell her story to numerous reporters but back then when she probably didn’t have a voice she probabley did shut up and put up. i think its time to start thinkinghttp://www.heritems.info/avatar4.jpg
 
Actually, a lot of other Middle Eastern/Semitic tribes had “queen mother” customs like Israel’s. Israel didn’t originally have kings at all, remember? They got most of their royal customs from other nearby countries. (Though of course, every Jewish mother has had a tendency to be formidable like a queen, if you read the Bible.)

For example, in the Book of Proverbs, the “valiant woman” proverbs come from a non-Israelite queen mother’s words of wisdom for her son the king.

Here’s some old Scott Hahn comments, talking about a 1983 article by N.A. Andrieson on “The Role of the Queen Mother in Israelite Society.” It seems to be some kind of transcript of a talk by him.

"The Queen Mother throughout all these ancient Near Eastern monarchies sat beside the king on a throne, survived the death without being deposed. If the king died, the Queen Mother continued to reign without being deposed. There was a cultic role for her in leading the songs and so on in worship but also she had an essential role in political, military and economic affairs of court. In fact there are records of where the Queen Mother could oppose the king on issues of state. This is found in the Eplah tablets, and Ur, Hittite records, Egypt, Mari tablets, Assyria, and other Arabian documents, as well. And the Queen Mother usually began her reign, just as an interesting incidental detail, after menopause.

“What’s really interesting from Andriesen’s perspective is that even after the prophets are sent by God to purify the Jerusalem cult and the kingdom of all of these pagan encrustations, the institution of the gebirah continues, with reforms by Hezekiah and Josiah. The fertility cults are suppressed and these ashera poles and so on are torn down, including sacred snakes, you know, the nahushta and so on; but never the Queen Mother, that’s allowed to remain. The central role for Andriesen’s research is that she was to be the king’s wisdom counselor. Lady Wisdom in the Book of Proverbs is sort of like a personification of the Queen Mother, or visa versa.”
 
Consider Mary as she really is. Everybody glorifies Our Lady. Of course she is to be glorified. She is the Mother of God. But I would like to tell of her ordinary life. There are many women like me who feel that she is so high up that nobody can touch her. It is true that she is high up, but she is also very ordinary.

What did she do all day? I imagine she washed and scrubbed and cleaned. She was married to a carpenter. She wasn’t a big shot in Nazareth. Nazareth was a small town. Joseph wasn’t a big shot, just a carpenter. She tended to her husband and Son, especially when he was small. She cooked, she scrubbed and she washed and wove and attended to the garden and did the laundry. Our Lady was the first person who really knew how to do the will of God in its minute details.
I revel in her normality because she is ordinary and at the same time extraordinary. It was an ordinary household and that is a most fantastic thing. Our Lord chose for his mother a working woman; that’s what she was, a working woman.

She got up in the morning, and on some days of the week carried the laundry to the pool. The women of Nazareth must have come to her constantly because she was who she was. She must have kept, not a cookie jar, but the Eastern sweets that all the Eastern people love, and children must have come to her.
I think of her in realistic terms, but I also think of her as the woman with the power to stand silently under the cross of her Son, and in some sort of an incredible way, I understand that at that moment she became the mother of all humanity, for whom he died.

She’s the woman of speech and she’s the woman of silence. She’s stronger than an army in battle array and as weak with God as only a woman can be. She dusted and she cleaned. And she cooked and she knew how to weave. She wove his seamless garment. Her life was a sea of small things so infinitely small that they’re almost not worth mentioning. The corn had to be ground, her house swept, the meals prepared; day after day the Mother of God did those things.
From her we can learn the quality of listening, and of taking up the words of others as well as the words of God, holding them in our hearts until the Holy Spirit cracks them wide open and gives us the answer as he did to her as her Spouse.

You asked me to explain who Our Lady is. You could say that she’s the gate. She’s the gate to the way to the Father, because it is through her that Christ came to us and it is through her that we return to him.

Who is Our Lady? A woman like you and me. She is someone to whom my heart goes out all day and who is with me as a friend, and with whom I can talk.
We all should talk about her Son. For you see, she changed his diapers and he drank her milk, and she kissed his boo-boos away like any woman does to a toddler. He scratched himself, so she kissed it away. He went, and he fell and he got up and he grew up, and she probably said, “Eat your porridge,” and she probably said, “Don’t forget your sandals. It’s wet.”

Who has lived with God as Mary has lived with him? To whom can we go and find out that he is really a man? From whom shall we know the Incarnation better than from the woman who carried him in her womb nine months?
How can anyone talk about throwing out devotions to Our Lady? Do you want to throw out the woman who was pregnant with God and who will never lead you away from him but always to him?

We think of her as the queen of the angels, and queen of the universe, which she is. But you see, God was a carpenter and she was a house-wife. And God is in heaven and he still has calloused hands in his glorified body. And she, who also has been assumed into heaven and has a glorified body, still has hands that show she was just a working woman. She is all things to all people because she is the mother of mankind.

How can we not love her? How can we not go to her, run to her? She has the secret of everything, now that she is where she is. And when we worry about some kind of a mystery or have a hang-up on something or other in spiritual matters, why don’t we go to her? She’ll say, “Oh relax, kiddo. Let us sit down and talk.”

What a strange thing it is that God chose her. Because she is the gate through which he came to us, she is the gate wide open for us to go through to him.

 
i don’t want to offend anyones faith at all. theologically my knowledge isn’t great but after having researched mary recently for a part i’m about to play, it’s left me wondering whether we should take into account the time the bible was written. a time of patriarchy. we live within patriarcy now so i imagine it was even more extreme then. could it be that the documentation of Mary is from a patriarchal perspective, thus missing out on much of the detail (and not featuring much). As we enter a time where we are looking to the past with fresh perspective, listening to voices that have been rendered silent for so long, giving voice to minorities etc is there any scope to do that with the telling of this part of history. for example, and i really don’t want to offend, just stimulate, could it be that when mary was told of her immaculate conception, she might have had more to say. she was very young at the time and i can’t image it was that easy for her to accept. even if she didn’t voice it out loud she would have had an internal monologue. nowadays she would have had opportunity to tell her story to numerous reporters but back then when she probably didn’t have a voice she probabley did shut up and put up. i think its time to start thinking about the dual struggle that she must have had, and to give it a platform. thoughts please - more to help me reconcile how to play her.
Who is Mary? Mary is the one person our Lord couldn’t say no to. Even though He wasn’t ready for public knowledge of His ability to work miracles, He did what Mary asked of Him, anyway. That’s a good thing to keep in mind when you wonder if the Lord is listening to you. Take your request to Mary, and let her present it to her Son. Their hearts are forever entwined.
 
I’ve enjoyed immensely the ‘Life of the Blessed Virgin Mary’ by Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich. A great starter for meditation, it can help give a sense of reverent familiarity with the Mother of God who lived among us on earth.
 
Oh brother. Really?

Maybe you should reconsider playing Mary if you cannot do so without having to ‘rethink’ her.

Mary, conceived without sin, was perfectly holy and perfectly aligned with God’s will. Her great trust in God allowed her to accept his will and the Annunciation of her special role in bearing the Messiah.

Play a humble, holy girl full of virtue and you will have captured Mary.
Mary physically probably looked like the Palestinian school girls one might encounter on a bus in Israel. But she would have been stronger because like all village girls of her time and forever, she had to work from a relatively early age. Bernardette at first described her as a young girl about her own age, barefoot but rather well-dressed. Tradition has her working at the loom, so that our Lord’s robe was one he wore on the road, the seamless garment, that she made for him. Brighter and perhaps more articular, and quieter, and maybe even literate, since tradition has her coming from a priestly family. Frank Sheed even speculated that she served as our Lord’s tutor in the Torah. But all this is imaginative construction. Certainly, though, though she was observant.
 
Actually, it was the Davidic line that had queen mothers; other countries, and the Northern Kingdom of Israel didn’t have that custom.
Interesting. Thanks.

Do you have any further information for me, book references or links? I’m not challenging or asking you to document your claim. I truly just want to study.

-Tim-
 
do you have netflix? if not get it just to see this movie: “Mary, mother of Jesus” (1999). it really opens up the mind. as a previous post stated- humble and full of virtue. i really had a whole new apreciation for our Blessed Mother.
best of luck to you and you are in my prayers.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top