SPLIT: Who can touch tabernacle, consecrated hosts, etc.?

[AveVerumCorpus]

Yeah and not only that but the people who are not supposed to be used ordinarily (aka the extraordinary folks) are never supposed to touch a tabernacle or tabernacle key.

Given that Jesus was always walking around touching lepers, prostitutes, those who were hemorrhaging, et al., I sincerely doubt he would be offended if someone of great faith kisses the tabernacle or touches the tabernacle key. But hey, that’s just my opinion.

 

[AveVerumCorpus]

It may not sound like the answer you want to hear, but if the role of the priest wasn’t so diminished there would probably be more seminarians.

Did you know the priest to seminarian ratio in the SSPX is nearly 2-1? If the other orders had that ratio your parish would have a priest right now.

I have a couple points I wanted to make, just as a way of stimulating conversation:

1. The role of the priest (in governance) is not given as much emphasis by certain churches/ecclesial bodies (such as Lutherans & Episcopalians), but their vocations are booming and their seminaries overflowing. So how can one say that reducing emphasis on ordained priestly function causes a lack of seminarians?
2. The SSPX groups cannot be compared to the RCC, other churches/ecclesial bodies in size- those who attend their liturgies cannot be compared to the billion Roman Catholics around the world. The point I’m trying to make is that the ratio of 2:1 may be because there are fewer faithful following in the SSPX footsteps than in other groups. Also, because the SSPX clearly (in my understanding) see themselves as offering an alternative (proper) way of worship for devout Catholics- they necessarily draw people who are (let’s just say) zealous in upholding a proper way of worship… it will be interesting to see if the faithful followers of the SSPX continue to fill the seminaries as robustly considering their style of worship is now considered to be normative in the RCC.

Just some of my own personal thoughts and ponderings…

 

[Ockham]

Sorry, it’s simply not true that only a priest can touch the tabernacle or consecrated host. If you have some Church teaching that can correct me, please share.

“Because out of reverence towards this sacrament, nothing touches it, but what is consecrated; hence the corporal and the chalice are consecrated, and likewise the priest’s hands, for touching this sacrament.” - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III, Q. 82, Art. 13

 

[diggerdomer]

“Because out of reverence towards this sacrament, nothing touches it, but what is consecrated; hence the corporal and the chalice are consecrated, and likewise the priest’s hands, for touching this sacrament.” - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III, Q. 82, Art. 13

And this relates how? This does nothing to contradict the reality that touching the tabernacle or consecrated host is not restricted to priests.

 

[Ockham]

Read St. Thomas again. Nothing touches the consecrated host other than the consecrated hands of the priest.

 

[Phemie]

Read St. Thomas again. Nothing touches the consecrated host other than the consecrated hands of the priest.

So, no Deacon gives out Communion in your book?

 

[Ockham]

If by my book you are refering to the Summa, then that would be correct unless the deacon has a pair of consecrated priest hands attached to his arms.

Why does this quote seem to not register with some?

 

[Ockham]

I don’t have time to fact check the following. I consider the source reliable so unless someone directly challenges one of the references I’m going to consider them all factual.

ST. SIXTUS I (115-125). Prohibited the faithful from even touching the Sacred Vessels: “Statutum est ut sacra vasa non ab aliis quam a sacratis Dominoque dicatis contrectentur hominibus…” [It has been decreed that the Sacred Vessels are not to be handled by others than by those consecrated and dedicated to the Lord.]

POPE ST. EUTYCHIAN (275-283). Forbade the faithful from taking the Sacred Host in their hand.

ST. BASIL THE GREAT, DOCTOR OF THE CHURCH (330-379). “The right to receive Holy Communion in the hand is permitted only in time of persecution.” St. Basil considered Communion in the hand so irregular that he did not hesitate to consider it a grave fault.

COUNCIL OF SARAGOSSA (380). It was decided to punish with EXCOMMUNICATION anyone who dared to continue the practice of Holy Communion in the hand. The Synod of Toledo confirmed this decree.

POPE ST. LEO I THE GREAT (440-461). Energetically defended and required faithful obedience to the practice of administering Holy Communion on the tongue of the faithful.

SYNOD OF ROUEN (650). Condemned Communion in the hand to halt widespread abuses that occurred from this practice, and as a safeguard against sacrilege.

SIXTH ECUMENICAL COUNCIL, AT CONSTANTINOPLE (680-681). Forbade the faithful to take the Sacred Host in their hand, threatening the transgressors with excommunication.

ST. THOMAS AQUINAS (1225-1274). “Out of reverence towards this sacrament [the Holy Eucharist], nothing touches it, but what is consecrated; hence the corporal and the chalice are consecrated, and likewise the priest’s hands, for touching this sacrament.” (Summa Theologica, Pars III, Q. 82, Art. 3, Rep. Obj. 8)

COUNCIL OF TRENT (1545-1565). “The fact that only the priest gives Holy Communion with his consecrated hands is an Apostolic Tradition.”

POPE PAUL VI (1963-1978). “This method [on the tongue] must be retained.” (Apostolic Epistle “Memoriale Domini”)

POPE JOHN PAUL II (197. "To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained. (Dominicae Cenae, sec. 11)

“It is not permitted that the faithful should themselves pick up the consecrated bread and the sacred chalice, still less that they should hand them from one to another.” (Inaestimabile Donum, April 17, 1980, sec. 9)

latin-mass-society.org/commwhy.htm

 

[Phemie]

“It is not permitted that the faithful should themselves pick up the consecrated bread and the sacred chalice, still less that they should hand them from one to another.” (Inaestimabile Donum, April 17, 1980, sec. 9)

latin-mass-society.org/commwhy.htm

At least in the case of Inaestimabile Donum you edited to support your belief. Number 9 is about self-communicating.

1. Eucharistic Communion. Communion is a gift of the Lord, given to the faithful through the minister appointed for this purpose. It is not permitted that the faithful should themselves pick up the consecrated bread and the sacred chalice, still less that they should hand them from one to another.

1. The faithful, whether religious or lay, who are authorized as extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist can distribute Communion only when there is no priest, deacon or acolyte, when the priest is impeded by illness or advanced age, or when the number of the faithful going to Communion is so large as to make the celebration of Mass excessively long.(20) Accordingly, a reprehensible attitude is shown by those priests who, though present at the celebration, refrain from distributing Communion and leave the task to the laity.

 

[diggerdomer]

I don’t have time to fact check the following. I consider the source reliable so unless someone directly challenges one of the references I’m going to consider them all factual.

I’m not sure how prudent that line of reasoning is; for the sake of discussion I’ll assume they’re factual too. I doubt anyone here has the time/interest to delve into each of these at any length, so let’s just focus on recent, current Church teaching and practice (since, as with the Bible, anyone can find historical quotes and cite them out of context to support what they already believe).

must be retained." (Apostolic Epistle “Memoriale Domini”)

POPE JOHN PAUL II (197. "To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained. (Dominicae Cenae, sec. 11)

“It is not permitted that the faithful should themselves pick up the consecrated bread and the sacred chalice, still less that they should hand them from one to another.” (Inaestimabile Donum, April 17, 1980, sec. 9)

from Paul VI: yes, this method is obviously retained, so there’s no problem here.

from John Paul II: yes, this is a privileged of the ordained. That does not mean no one else under any circumstance can touch and distribute them (again…the Church has allowed the ministry of EMHC, including during John Paul II’s pontificate, so if there were some contradiction with what he taught well obviously he wouldn’t have allowed it).

from Inaestimabile Donum: and, again, yes this is valid and does not contradict my point. This is saying that during the communion Rite the minister of communion distributes the Body and Blood; i.e. we don’t “self serve” or “pass it around” like at a dinner table or buffet. This is also incorporated by the guidelines that the EMHCs do not take the Body/Blood from the altar themselves, they are given it by the ordained minister.

Cheers

 

[cricket36]

I am an EMHC who takes the Sacrament to the sick and shut-ins of my parish. If I visit during the week, I must go to the church to fill my pyx since I am not allowed to keep the Sacrament at home. I have a key to the church for if the priest is out on other duties, I have to fill my pyx from the tabernacle.

I am also one of the people in my parish appointed to lead Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest, in the event we would not have a priest unavailable to us. In this case also, I would approach and open the tabernacle.

 

[diggerdomer]

If by my book you are refering to the Summa, then that would be correct unless the deacon has a pair of consecrated priest hands attached to his arms.

Why does this quote seem to not register with some?

It registers, it’s just not the most pertinent to the topic. The Church’s sacramental and liturgical life is not governed by Aquinas. The Church (Magisterium) through its liturgical books, instructions, and so on is what provides the norms and theological bases for our sacramental life and practice. Of course this incorporates teachings of Aquinas, as applicable, as it incorporates our entire Tradition. Aquinas also said that Confirmation is only to be administered by bishops…but obviously circumstances allow for some changes in 800 years as we currently don’t have that same restriction (e.g. RCIA).

Cheers

 

[Pug]

POPE JOHN PAUL II (197. "To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained. (Dominicae Cenae, sec. 11)

This quote may not be used in any way to support the idea lay persons may not be trained as EMHC. Here is the cut you gave in its *immediate *context:

To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained, one which indicates an active participation in the ministry of the Eucharist. It is obvious that the Church can grant this faculty to those who are neither priests nor deacons, as is the case with acolytes in the exercise of their ministry, especially if they are destined for future ordination, or with other lay people who are chosen for this to meet a just need, but always after an adequate preparation.

 

[Saintlucy]

I have a confession to make.

Quite a few years ago I was on the cleaning team at our church. I can’t do it now because of ill health. The team of about 8 was there for a cursory hour. They vacuumed the carpet swept the floors and flicked a duster around… My job was to clean under the pews! They must have seen me coming. It’s quite a big church.

Well, they all left and I could see so much dirt and dust and cobwebs I decided to stay and do what I could. I started with the statues and washed them and then I swept all the window ledges. You wouldn’t believe the dust.

At that time, the Blessed Sacrament was on a side altar. I could see that the linen hadn’t been changed and everything looked grimy so I began to clean. I brushed the tabernacle. Yes I touched it! I was not struck down dead. I was waiting for the flash of lightening. I spoke to our Blessed Lord and apologised to Him for this. I just couldn’t bear to see His home covered with dust. I was completely alone and no one knows that I did this.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

Interesting. So do you or another lay person preach as well?

I occasionally am asked to do a Communion service at the nursing home when the priest scheduled to say the weekly Mass there cannot make it.

I do not “preach” per se, since I do not think I am qualified to do so. Priests and deacons have special graces to do this by virtue of their ordination. (They are the only ones allowed to preach at Mass; I am not sure about Communion services.)

I do occasionally read a brief reflection written by someone else (e.g., an excerpt from the Office of Readings, or something written by one of the Popes or saints) if I think it is particularly relevant to the readings/feast of the day and the lives of the elderly people to whom I am ministering.