SPLIT: Why Not A United Christendom?

[paarsurrey]

Hi
When all the major religious beliefs of Catholics and Protestants are the same ( from the stand point of Islam or other religions), the differences if any are in the minor issues. I think both the Catholics and Protestants are sincere people. So, why don’t they merge into one United Chrsitendom . Of course they shall have to make some sacrifice, but that is the lesson Jesus told. Would it be sinful?
Thanks

 

[Shlemele]

hehe because if you think we argue a lot now… In truth there are talks between many denominatons to grow understanding and in many churches it might be possible to mend fences and absorb similar congragations, however there are those who will never agree 100% and since many of us have stances we will not deviate from untill one side gives up a stance (not likely on either side) the best we can be is understanding, supportive and respectfull untill we all get to heaven, and then we can all have a good laugh over it!

 

[Vigis]

Well I would not say that every issue it small. Their is not a United Christendom for many reasons. The mistakes of people of the past, hatred, misconceptions, and disagreements are the major reasons.

When somethings start they start off a chain-reaction. That reaction continues until the fuel is gone. The first split in the Church occured in the mid-eleventh century when the ambassador of the Pope marched into the greatest cathedral in Constantinople at the time walked up to the altar (during the service I think) and placed a papal bull of excommunication on it. He then turned around (which was probably in a pompus way) and walked off. The deacon or whatever standing by the altar picked it up and read it. He begged the ambassador to take it back (probably with tears in his eyes), but to no avail. Hence the Orthodox Church came into being. It was a mistake in my view to do such a thing, but then again I was not there.

The Church then became corrupt. So Matrin Luther came along and protested and started the great Protestant Revolt. Afterwards and it still continues today, Protestantism tears itself apart at such a rapid rate that today there are over 80,000 divisions. Tomarrow there will be 160,000. It all began with the mistake of being corrupted.

Then the attacks come along. Mostly because of misconceptions, hatred, and closed minds.

Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Budhism, Paganism, Confucionism, and much much much more are all divided. The world is divided. Why can’t there be one religion, one nation, one ruler, and one government? That is easy to answer. Because we are human.

The only way that it would not be sinful for Christendom to unite is for Protestants to give up their heretical beliefs and join the Catholic Church. The Orthodox will have to accept the supremacy of the bishop of Rome (the pope). I hope and pray that this day will come. Any other way would be sinful against truth. God stands for truth for He is Truth.

God speed.

Vigis

 

[Shlemele]

The only way that it would not be sinful for Christendom to unite is for Protestants to give up their heretical beliefs and join the Catholic Church.

Yeah and that kind of sentament is just the kind of thing that will bring us running back . oh well just goes to show we all have a long way to go. For the moment how about let’s just work on respecting and understanding… the rest will be far out of our lifetime before fences are mended.

 

[thistle]

Well I would not say that every issue it small. Their is not a United Christendom for many reasons. The mistakes of people of the past, hatred, misconceptions, and disagreements are the major reasons.

When somethings start they start off a chain-reaction. That reaction continues until the fuel is gone. The first split in the Church occured in the mid-eleventh century when the ambassador of the Pope marched into the greatest cathedral in Constantinople at the time walked up to the altar (during the service I think) and placed a papal bull of excommunication on it. He then turned around (which was probably in a pompus way) and walked off. The deacon or whatever standing by the altar picked it up and read it. He begged the ambassador to take it back (probably with tears in his eyes), but to no avail. Hence the Orthodox Church came into being. It was a mistake in my view to do such a thing, but then again I was not there.

**The Church then became corrupt./**B] So Matrin Luther came along and protested and started the great Protestant Revolt. Afterwards and it still continues today, Protestantism tears itself apart at such a rapid rate that today there are over 80,000 divisions. Tomarrow there will be 160,000. It all began with the mistake of being corrupted.

Then the attacks come along. Mostly because of misconceptions, hatred, and closed minds.

Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Budhism, Paganism, Confucionism, and much much much more are all divided. The world is divided. Why can’t there be one religion, one nation, one ruler, and one government? That is easy to answer. Because we are human.

The only way that it would not be sinful for Christendom to unite is for Protestants to give up their heretical beliefs and join the Catholic Church. The Orthodox will have to accept the supremacy of the bishop of Rome (the pope). I hope and pray that this day will come. Any other way would be sinful against truth. God stands for truth for He is Truth.

God speed.

Vigis

The Church has never been and can never be corrupt. It is quite a different thing saying some priests were corrupt. That was true. After all they are human with all the failings that go with that.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Hi
When all the major religious beliefs of Catholics and Protestants are the same ( from the stand point of Islam or other religions), the differences if any are in the minor issues. I think both the Catholics and Protestants are sincere people. So, why don’t they merge into one United Chrsitendom . Of course they shall have to make some sacrifice, but that is the lesson Jesus told. Would it be sinful?
Thanks

Minor issues are still issues that must be understood for any protestant community to return to Catholic unity, Compromise is not acceptanle when it comes to the truth.

 

[YinYangMom]

Hi
When all the major religious beliefs of Catholics and Protestants are the same ( from the stand point of Islam or other religions), the differences if any are in the minor issues. I think both the Catholics and Protestants are sincere people. So, why don’t they merge into one United Christendom . Of course they shall have to make some sacrifice, but that is the lesson Jesus told. Would it be sinful?
Thanks

Probably for similar reasons why the Shia and Sunnis don’t merge, along with the Sufis, Wahhabis, Taliban, Alawis, Druze, Ibadhis, Ahmadiya (of which you are a member) and the Zaydis.

The reasons may appear minor, but as you know, those ‘minor’ difference are rather significant.

Keep in mind there was a “united christendom” (the Catholic Church as we know it today - including the 22 rites), as you so put it, for over a century. The Catholic Church continues to call her separated children home and will continue to do so until He comes again, so no, it would certainly not be sinful for all Christians to re-unite.

 

[Greg27]

Christianity had two great schisms; between Orthodoxy and Catholicism in the 11th century, and between Protestantism and Catholicism during the Reformation. This has created three main areas of Christianity, though within these areas there is a lot of individual diversity and difference (especially amoung Protestantism, which values individual conscience and freedom over authority and heirarchy).

 

[Vigis]

Yeah and that kind of sentament is just the kind of thing that will bring us running back . oh well just goes to show we all have a long way to go. For the moment how about let’s just work on respecting and understanding… the rest will be far out of our lifetime before fences are mended.

I meant no offense to anyone when I said my previous statement. What I have said though are the cold hard facts. I know that we must take steps to understand each other more, and unite in our common beliefs. I will however stand by my previous statement. Why? Because it is true; at least according to my faith (for I do not know what your faith is).

God speed.

Vigis

 

[Vigis]

The Church has never been and can never be corrupt. It is quite a different thing saying some priests were corrupt. That was true. After all they are human with all the failings that go with that.

Ah! Thank you for correcting me. I should have made my statement more distinguished. Thank you again.

God speed.

Vigis

 

[KofC660]

Christendom fell apart because people no longer were willing to accept the authority of the Bishop of Rome. The ceased believing that Jesus founded the Catholic Church, and that the heir of Peter, the Bishop of Rome, was it’s head.

As long as people still refuse to accept the Authority of the Bishop of Rome, there will never be unity.

 

[Shlemele]

Christendom fell apart because people no longer were willing to accept the authority of the Bishop of Rome. The ceased believing that Jesus founded the Catholic Church, and that the heir of Peter, the Bishop of Rome, was it’s head.

As long as people still refuse to accept the Authority of the Bishop of Rome, there will never be unity.

The church fell apart because people believed that the church had become corrupt. The selling of indulgences while not intended to be a free pas to sin was looked on as that by many. Hence Luthor and the protestant reformation. It was the Catholic churches unwillingnes to bend then that tore the church (It took the pope 3 years to respond, he thought Luthor would just go away). So regardless of what people thought about the church it’s past was not the reson for the protestant reformation but rather the state the church was in during that time period.

 

[prv]

Hi
When all the major religious beliefs of Catholics and Protestants are the same ( from the stand point of Islam or other religions), the differences if any are in the minor issues. I think both the Catholics and Protestants are sincere people. So, why don’t they merge into one United Chrsitendom . Of course they shall have to make some sacrifice, but that is the lesson Jesus told. Would it be sinful?
Thanks

Paarsurrey,

Blessed be God forever.

The ecumenical movement in Christianity is about reuniting all Christianity, which many churches are involved in.

However, the issues facing us are not minor. As Catholics, we believe that Christ crucified is brought to us time and time again when a validly ordained priest offers the Eucharist (the Body and Blood of Christ, who is not re-crucified). Most Protestants do not believe this.

Some Protestants believe in the idea that once a person is saved, he or she is always saved. As Catholics presumably trusting in God’s mercy, we cannot accept this.

We cannot accept the destruction of the unborn by abortion, accepted by some Protestants and many (heretical) Catholics.

These are only some of the grave issues facing Christianity today.

The blessing and peace of God be with you.

 

[dylanschrader]

Hi
When all the major religious beliefs of Catholics and Protestants are the same ( from the stand point of Islam or other religions), the differences if any are in the minor issues. I think both the Catholics and Protestants are sincere people. So, why don’t they merge into one United Chrsitendom . Of course they shall have to make some sacrifice, but that is the lesson Jesus told. Would it be sinful?
Thanks

It is true that Christ desires unity for the Church (see John 17). The unity of the Church, in fact, is something that she cannot lose because it comes from God. Christ established one Church, and she still exists.

The Church pre-exists her members because she comes from God. Individual persons, however, and even bodies of persons can be separated to various degrees from the one Church.

It is not a matter of “merging” as if two separate, equal groups were becoming one. It is a matter of “incorporating” individual persons and bodies of persons fully into the Body of Christ.

 

[paarsurrey]

It was the **Catholic churches unwillingnes to bend **then that tore the church (It took the pope 3 years to respond, he thought Luthor would just go away).

Hi
It is very sad that the clergy did not care for the people.
It is never late if sincere efforts are made for unification of One Christendom. Jesus spoke against the Clergy, it is on record, the religion is for everybody not for the Clergy.
Thanks

 

[Blinky]

Hi
It is very sad that the clergy did not care for the people.
It is never late if sincere efforts are made for unification of One Christendom. Jesus spoke against the Clergy, it is on record, the religion is for everybody not for the Clergy.
Thanks

Where is it on record?

 

[paarsurrey]

Where is it on record?

Hi
Please refer for example: Matthew Chapter 23.
Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi
The major issues, in my opinion, common to both Protestants and Catholics are:

1. Trinity- Three in one and one in three
2. Jesus is God
3. Jesus is Son of God
4. Mary is blessed
5. Jesus is Son of Man
6. Paul is the foremost Apostel
7. Both believe OT and NT
8. Jesus died for human sins
9. Jesus died on Cross for Christian’s sins
10. Jesus got resurrected from the dead
11. Jesus ascended to heaven and is sitting of right hand of God the Father and has assumed power.

If I am wrong please get me corrected. If I am true then other issues are only egoistic and hence minor. There is a strong case of merging both for one Christendom.
Thanks

 

[Church_Militant]

The church fell apart because people believed that the church had become corrupt. The selling of indulgences while not intended to be a free pas to sin was looked on as that by many. Hence Luthor and the protestant reformation. It was the Catholic churches unwillingnes to bend then that tore the church (It took the pope 3 years to respond, he thought Luthor would just go away). So regardless of what people thought about the church it’s past was not the reson for the protestant reformation but rather the state the church was in during that time period.

What I think people fail to consider is that there wasn’t the communication system that we have today. It took three years to respond to Luther’s craziness (and that said because of the vast divergence from Biblical and historically accurate teaching that he and the Protestant Reformers made the crux of their religion.) because there were no phones and internet and jet airplanes or fax machines.

It’s just like those n-Cs who talk about the canon of scripture as if it was a done deal in the 1st century instead of taking almost 400 years. People act like the authors of the New Testament just popped down to the Jerusalem Kinko’s and zapped up copies and overnighted them off to the rest of the church… and that’s every bit as goofy as I just made it sound.

So to say that the church was slow to respond to Luther et all is probably not either fair or accurate IMO.

BTW, many people try to allege that these “reformers” were some sort of pioneers, when in fact that is not true either. Reform Came before the Reformation

Hi
It is very sad that the clergy did not care for the people.

Again, this is a generalization that is not fair. There were (temporary) problems…but nothing that justifies the (permanent) disaster that it has become.

It is never late if sincere efforts are made for unification of One Christendom.

I agree, however, as was pointed out above, the same could be said of Islam could it not?

I definitely do appreciate your posts and whole demeanor here. You are indeed a refreshing change from so many folks that we hear from. Peace be with you.

Jesus spoke against the Clergy, it is on record, the religion is for everybody not for the Clergy.
Thanks

Actually, Our Lord spoke against those who corrupted their status… Notice his discussion with Nicodemus in John chapter 3 for instance.

Our clergy are servants and elders, and most are okay. Some are not and as with all human events, they seem to have gotten a great deal of notice…but by and large, my experience with them has been very rewarding.

Here again, this also could be said of Islam could it not? Has your own interaction with all Islamic clergy been positive?:ehh:

Thank you again for the respect and kindness of your posts around here.:clapping:

 

[Church_Militant]

Hi
The major issues, in my opinion, common to both Protestants and Catholics are:

1. Trinity- Three in one and one in three
2. Jesus is God
3. Jesus is Son of God
4. Mary is blessed
5. Jesus is Son of Man
6. Paul is the foremost Apostle
7. Both believe OT and NT
8. Jesus died for human sins
9. Jesus died on Cross for Christian’s sins
10. Jesus got resurrected from the dead
11. Jesus ascended to heaven and is sitting of right hand of God the Father and has assumed power.

If I am wrong please get me corrected. If I am true then other issues are only egoistic and hence minor. There is a strong case of merging both for one Christendom.
Thanks

An interesting view paarsurrey, but I’d have to say that it is a little oversimplified.

The fundamental difference between Catholicism and (most) n-C churches is their belief in Sola Scriptura, (the doctrine that teaches that the Bible is the authority for all that Christians believe and practice.), and since we Catholics do not share that new doctrine (the result of the “reformation” schism some 500 years ago), the shared beliefs that you listed are accurate so far as they go… but the difference is more fundamental than that and so forums like this one exist in an effort to explain and defend Catholic teachings, with a hope for (at least) a better understanding between Catholics and those outside the Church.

BTW, your #6 is about the only one that is really not accurate (IMO). St. Paul was prolific, yes, but the foremost apostle? I don’t really think I agree. Paul was not one of the Twelve, and in fact I think that his writings are more like building on the writings of the others than anything else.

Foremost? I’d have said the Gospel authors, though people often forget that only two of them (Matthew and John) were actually apostles. Only five of the twelve actually wrote parts of the New Testament, Peter, James, John, Matthew, and Jude and to pick one to call foremost would be difficult for me. I probably would have to go with Our Lord on this and say Peter, but hopefully you can see my point.