Man of War. You stated:
Quote:
I did not realize there must be an intermediator for this process to happen, seems like a clog in the process.
This might help.
1st TIMOTHY 2:5 5 For there is one God, and there is one (
heis) mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
The Greek word for “one” as in “one mediator” is transliterated “hay-eese” (heis). This allows secondary mediation.
The Greek word “monos” could have been used which would be more exclusive. But it wasn’t.
That’s WHY several verses earlier you are NOT told we cannot pray on behalf of other people.
NOT 1st TIMOTHY 2:1-4 (Phantom Verse) 1 First of all, then, you people
cannot make supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. 3
Because if you try to do this, you will be trying to mediate between God and men. It is a terrible thing to try to do this mediation between God and men and totally unacceptable in the sight of God.
No! That would be non-sense. The issue isn’t can we “mediate between God and men”.
The issue is HOW does Jesus “mediate between God and men”.
And the answer is Jesus mediated on Calvary all by Himself (which
He brings us into - see Romans 6), but He ALSO continues to mediate in people and through people as well (in differing ways to be sure; i.e. the Ministerial Priesthood for example). That’s WHY St. Peter can say we are “
partakers” of the Divine nature. That’s WHY St. Paul tells us we have a “
participation” or a “
koinonia” in Christ.
That’s WHY several verses earlier you and I are told to pray on behalf of other people.
1st TIMOTHY 2:1-4 1 First of all, then,
I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. 3
This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
The issue is HOW does Jesus mediate between God and men, not “can we mediate apart from Jesus Christ” (as we cannot “mediate” apart from Christ in any sense).
Quote:
How’s about simply calling to Jesus and confessing to him. and he is just and righteous to forgive us our sins. It’s Biblical. Very simple.
HOW do you confess your sins to Jesus–THAT’S what the issue is.
Catholics go directly to Jesus interiorly (we call that an “examination of conscience”), and then we obey Jesus and go to the ministerial priest and physically Confess. It is not an “either/or” but a “yes/and”.
I think you will enjoy Jimmy Akin giving a brief explanation of this
here (see 13:20 into the video for a specific answer to your question)
This may help somewhat too (
here and
here).
As SeekerofTruth27 said in
post 10:
The Church teaches that it is Jesus Who forgives us through the priest.
This is termed “in persona Christi”.
It means that it IS Jesus doing the forgiving in a special way through the priest.
Jesus actually personally forgives sins through his appointed.
2nd CORINTHIANS 2:5-11 5 But if any one has caused pain, he has caused it not to me, but in some measure–not to put it too severely-- to you all. 6 For such a one this punishment by the majority is enough; 7 so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. 8 So I beg you to reaffirm your love for him. 9 For this is why I wrote, that I might test you and know whether you are obedient in everything. 10 Any one whom you forgive, I also forgive. What I have forgiven, **if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence (Greek word “prospon”) of Christ, **11 to keep Satan from gaining the advantage over us; for we are not ignorant of his designs.
2nd CORINTHIANS 2:10 (DRV Catholic Bible translation) And to whom you have forgiven any thing, I also: for, what I forgave,
if I have forgiven any thing, it was for your sakes in the person of Christ, 11 that we may not be circumvented by Satan: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
Some people will try to deny this has anything to do with Confession. But once you admit the CONCEPT that St. Paul has the power to forgive something/anything in the very prospon or “person” of Christ (in persona Christi) you can begin to see Catholic doctrine (which is the historical Christian teaching).
I went into more detail on this on another thread
here and
here .
What do you think St. Paul has been given this power to forgive (if not sins) that is so important, that if not done, Satan can circumvent them (v. 11)?
The only area that really holds me back is the veneration of saints and of Mary. The Bible states we should not pray to familiar spirits. It all seems to over shadow Jesus. I don’t understand that. Jesus should be the only focus.
See the same Jimmy Akin talk
here at 17:00.
Hope this all helps.
God bless.
Cathoholic
I’m sorry that the parish you went to as a teen pushed you away from the Faith.
As you continue your search for the truth about Catholicism, please remember that just because members of the Catholic Church have faults, that doesn’t mean that the Catholic Church is wrong. I can’t remember who it was, but someone once said, “You can’t leave Peter because of Judas.” Another way of looking at it: we don’t abandon democracy because people who ascribe to it don’t always follow it. There are sinners in all religions, we all need to look at the teachings of each faith, not the actions of the individuals, in order to determine which one is the Church founded by Jesus Christ.