Sports activities vs Church

[Corki]

Please do the CCD teacher the favour of not signing your kids up for it and then giving excuses all year long of how your child “has to” go to sports instead, because sports are so much more important than God Himself.

As a 9th grade CCE teacher, I sympathize. I get tired of kids who “drop in” every few weeks when they haven’t been out partying too much the night before or decide to go to the youth service at the Baptist church in town instead of coming to ours.

However, I certainly wouldn’t equate prioritizing a sporting event over a CCE class as making the sport more important than God Himself. CCE is not God.

My kids are in Catholic school. They are still required to go to CCE according to our DRE. I don’t send them; I just don’t register them. But when Confirmation year comes, I will have to register them and they will go to most of the classes and sit politely while the teacher covers material my kids learned in fourth grade and listen to all the dirty stories being told when the teacher tries to cover a moral living unit. (my class is in hearing distance of the Confirmation class). But if my son has a weekend tournament, he will miss CCE. If he signs up to do a school service project, he will miss CCE.

My oldest had a chance to get confirmed this year. But he would have had to miss too many Sundays when he was scheduled to serve at Mass. Guess what? Serving at Mass is more important than CCE.

CCE is important but it isn’t the most important thing in a child’s life or even in his/her religious development.

 

[jmcrae]

As a 9th grade CCE teacher, I sympathize. I get tired of kids who “drop in” every few weeks when they haven’t been out partying too much the night before or decide to go to the youth service at the Baptist church in town instead of coming to ours.

However, I certainly wouldn’t equate prioritizing a sporting event over a CCE class as making the sport more important than God Himself. CCE is not God.

No, but it’s how most kids enter into a personal relationship with Him, if they are attending regularly and learning together to be a small community of prayer. But in order for that to happen, they have to attend regularly - it can’t just be a secondary thing to do when there is nothing of greater eternal significance going on, such as sports and parties.

If someone is making their sport to be their career, that’s different than the kid who’s just out on the field to blow off steam and bounce a ball around with friends. But the career athletes have their own special schools and churches, do they not?

 

[whatevergirl]

It’s definitely something kids and parents need to make sure they talk about before committing to organized sports, that is for sure. There is a lot of time that goes into it…If a kid is going to miss half the practices and part of the games, he/she isn’t committed…for whatever the reasons are, it won’t be fair to the rest who do show. I believe that sporting activities shouldn’t be held on Sundays, period. I have never heard of such a thing. But, other than Sundays, if it is really going to be a problem…it would be better if the child didn’t commit to begin with, that say he/she will be there, and won’t be. Team sports require commitments, and there’s actually a lot of good that can come from organized sports, as it relates to character building, discipline, etc. But, I agree with the poster, might have been you jmcrae, who inferred that it’s becoming a religion of sorts to many. That is NOT good.

 

[leonie]

I think a lot depends on the quality of the ccd program. If I find a very good retreat or class for my kids, then it goes up on the priority list, but an average ccd class has a pretty low priority for me. We do R.E. at home, in any case, and the kids are way ahead on their catechism, so a class is redundant.

I would never miss a Mass of Obligation, though.

Here’s two nice books for those passionate about sports and fitness and faith.

amazon.com/Men-Spirit-Sports-Wally-Carew/dp/192903900X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255304734&sr=8-2

amazon.com/Fit-Eternal-Life-Kevin-Vost/dp/1933184310/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

 

[jmcrae]

It’s definitely something kids and parents need to make sure they talk about before committing to organized sports, that is for sure. There is a lot of time that goes into it…If a kid is going to miss half the practices and part of the games, he/she isn’t committed…for whatever the reasons are, it won’t be fair to the rest who do show. I believe that sporting activities shouldn’t be held on Sundays, period. I have never heard of such a thing. But, other than Sundays, if it is really going to be a problem…it would be better if the child didn’t commit to begin with, that say he/she will be there, and won’t be. Team sports require commitments, and there’s actually a lot of good that can come from organized sports, as it relates to character building, discipline, etc. But, I agree with the poster, might have been you jmcrae, who inferred that it’s becoming a religion of sorts to many. That is NOT good.

I think that what does not come through for a lot of these families, is that you can’t treat your Youth Group, CCD, or other Church activities like a drop-in thing, either. In order for these programs to work, the kids who sign up for it actually have to attend - they can’t be off doing sports activities or going to parties instead.

It’s extremely difficult for the volunteers to plan activities for Youth Group or for CCD if you have forty kids on the attendance list, but only two or three of them are actually attending regularly. It just isn’t fair to the volunteers, and it isn’t fair to the two or three kids who are making the effort to come every time. With so few kids, they might as well be home-schooled one-on-one, since there is no community for them to come to, anyway.

This year, I am actually tracking for a Religious Education program at one of our parishes, how many kids signed up, and how many kids actually attend. At the end of the year, if we find that in total, kids were at sports more often than they were at Religion class, then we will be shutting the Religion program down. The parents can home-school their kids for Religion (or not - it will no longer be our problem); we are not going to go to the trouble of recruiting the volunteers, and doing the advertising, for people who don’t even intend to be there to begin with - all they do is pay the registration fee and get their kids names on the list, but they don’t show up other than to drop in when they don’t happen to have sports that day.

It makes no sense to spend that kind of money, either on the part of the Church, or on the part of the parents. (The program runs at a loss, and the parish is no longer willing to subsidize kids who apparently aren’t interested enough in the subject matter to actually attend the classes.)

 

[puzzleannie]

How do you handle sports activities schedule on Sundays and on Wednesday evenings? I finally found a religion class on Sunday morning for my teenage son since Wednesday nights he has basketball practice. Now I have a parents upset with me because he will miss the first game on Sunday.(2 other games later in the day) I can’t win, but I’m sticking to my decision.

you get involved with the sponsoring organization who has the audacity to schedule these events on Sunday morning, which is commonly church time for the majority of people and you and the other parents let them know precisely why your child will not be present, and present a united front on the issue. If there is no other parent who feels the way you do, you pull him out of the league. To do anything else is simply to teach him that church is of minor importance, and is simply another choice of a leisure activity.

Then in your role, which you took on at his baptism, as your child’s primary educator in the faith you explain to him that to miss Mass is a mortal sin, and that is the greatest evil that can befall a Catholic, and yes, he will be attending Mass with you as long as he resides in your home.

 

[whatevergirl]

I think that what does not come through for a lot of these families, is that you can’t treat your Youth Group, CCD, or other Church activities like a drop-in thing, either. In order for these programs to work, the kids who sign up for it actually have to attend - they can’t be off doing sports activities or going to parties instead.

It’s extremely difficult for the volunteers to plan activities for Youth Group or for CCD if you have forty kids on the attendance list, but only two or three of them are actually attending regularly. It just isn’t fair to the volunteers, and it isn’t fair to the two or three kids who are making the effort to come every time. With so few kids, they might as well be home-schooled one-on-one, since there is no community for them to come to, anyway.

This year, I am actually tracking for a Religious Education program at one of our parishes, how many kids signed up, and how many kids actually attend. At the end of the year, if we find that in total, kids were at sports more often than they were at Religion class, then we will be shutting the Religion program down. The parents can home-school their kids for Religion (or not - it will no longer be our problem); we are not going to go to the trouble of recruiting the volunteers, and doing the advertising, for people who don’t even intend to be there to begin with - all they do is pay the registration fee and get their kids names on the list, but they don’t show up other than to drop in when they don’t happen to have sports that day.

It makes no sense to spend that kind of money, either on the part of the Church, or on the part of the parents. (The program runs at a loss, and the parish is no longer willing to subsidize kids who apparently aren’t interested enough in the subject matter to actually attend the classes.)

*I agree completely jmcrae …that’s why I said…parents and kids really need to discuss the committment…I was lucky in the sense that my kids’ sports things, etc didn’t conflict with CCD, etc. Days of holy obligation, practices did fall, and they always missed those. Worship always comes first. I am still in shock here reading this thread, at how some games take place on Sundays. To me, that is just inconsiderate planning for coaches, etc. *

 

[puzzleannie]

most of those kids who are blowing off church and CCD for sports and other activities do not drive, they are going along with a decision their parents have already made for them, that the sports are of more importance than duty to God and growth in knowledge of Him and in relationship with Him. Those parents are going to face a very harsh judgement for what they have taught there children, and it is to be hoped they recall the solemn vow they made before God and His Church when their child was baptized before it is too late.

I would not shut down RE programs if only one child were participating, I would give that child our very best.

 

[whatevergirl]

*jmcrae, as far as shutting the program down…I say, it seems logical! (if people who signed up are not showing up 1/2 the time) *

 

[Cat]

Once again, I want to state that those people who schedule sports on Sundays don’t do so out of audacity or disrespect.

They do it because that is the time that children and teenagers, their parents and coaches, and REFEREES are actually available (mainly due to school and work) and because the fields, stadiums, ice rinks, parks, etc. are CHEAPER.

If you want to blame anyone or anything for Sunday sports, blame school and work! If we didn’t have to go to school, or work, we could practice and play whenever we wanted, couldn’t we? That’s kind of what a lot of homeschoolers do–in our city, the skating rinks schedule special Learn To Skate classes and practices sessions during the weekdays for the many homeschooled children and teens in our city.

But most of us have obligations to school and work during the week. That leaves Saturday and Sunday for extracurriculars, and there’s just not enough facilities and officials for all the kids to do Saturday games and competitions.

There are a lot of sports that do happen during the week–my suggestion is that if you have an athlete in the family, try to steer them into a sport where most of the action occurs after school; .e.g, volleyball.

 

[jmcrae]

I would not shut down RE programs if only one child were participating, I would give that child our very best.

It will ultimately be up to the pastor of that parish, what to do with the information when I have finished collecting it and give it to him, but as far as I understand, he is not interested in hiring 19 volunteers (Grades 1-9 plus Coordinator) to instruct the very few kids who actually show up to his program. Something will certainly be there for those who are committed and who want the program (even if it is just to have the parents and their kids meet together for a discussion group on topics of interest, using the curriculum materials as a starting place for discussions), but it will not be anything like the same scale as what is now in place.

 

[Brenda_V]

What I find disturbing is how learning about God and His Church is less important than sports no matter what the level for some here.

There was a time when Wednesday evenings and Sundays had no extra-curricular events for children or teens scheduled. The reason was it was accepted that the Catholics would be having CCD Wednesday evenings and going to Mass Sunday Morning and then spending the rest of the day with their families and the Protestants would have Wednesday Church (yep, many had a Service Wednesday evenings for the adults and youth group activities for the youth) and Sunday mornings they would be going to Services and Sunday School with the rest of the day spent with family.

So, is it too much to expect any sport no matter what the level to give up one week night a week and at the very least Sunday mornings? No, it is not. This “must have practice every afternoon + and games on Sunday mornings” is not necessary - sorry.

I am with puzzleannie on this, put up a united front and the sponsoring group will back down, if no team members show up on a Sunday morning for a game - on either team, ever, then games would no longer be scheduled for that time.

I am not against sports, just the way everyone seems to think they should take over their lives.

Brenda V.

Now I know in my own Parish we have such a large number of children who attend our RE/CCD program that we have multiple nights for classes as well as Sundays.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

most of those kids who are blowing off church and CCD for sports and other activities do not drive, they are going along with a decision their parents have already made for them, that the sports are of more importance than duty to God and growth in knowledge of Him and in relationship with Him. Those parents are going to face a very harsh judgement for what they have taught there children, and it is to be hoped they recall the solemn vow they made before God and His Church when their child was baptized before it is too late.

If there’s anyone who is going to get struck by a lightning bolt by God, it is the person making blanket judgements on people without knowing what he or she is talking about.

I know I’m not going to be judged by God for allowing my child to miss a poorly designed CCD class that is scheduled smack dab in the middle of a Saturday, (and was moved to that day on purpose to increase the inconvenience to parents, by the way. I know that because I am a teacher.)

Sorry, it is not going to happen. My daughter gets more out of home religous education and her competitive sport. God will not be judging me for this parenting decision, I can guarantee you that. My daughter never misses Mass.

There are a lot of sports that do happen during the week–my suggestion is that if you have an athlete in the family, try to steer them into a sport where most of the action occurs after school; .e.g, volleyball.

I don’t know any that only occur after school. School season volleyball mostly occurs after school, but the competitive leagues have tournaments on Saturdays.

 

[Cat]

But the career athletes have their own special schools and churches, do they not?

No, not really.

When you speak of “career athletes,” are you talking about children and teenagers? Or adult pros? I’m not sure what you mean.

Most children and teenagers are not “career athletes.” They’re just kids who happen to like a sport and have some talent in that sport. They live at home with their parents, and they juggle their interest in that sport with all their other obligations–school, church, family, friends. Their parents probably don’t receive any financial aid, but rather, they work very hard to pay for the child’s involvement with that sport. In most cases, they do this not because they expect the child to become a pro and get rich, but because the family enjoys the sport and enjoys watching their child(ren) play the sport.

In the U.S., there are very few sports that you can make a “career” and earn a salary out of. Football, basketball, baseball, hockey, golf, tennis. That’s about it. You can get rich if you are a pro in any of these sports. But so few people make it to this level. It’s a true gamble. In fact, you are just as likely to get rich by going to a casino. Not very many athletes have the talent to make it to the pros in these sports.

And most children and teenagers do not know whether they will be successful enough in their sport to become “career” athletes. An awful lot of teenaged boys get injured and end their football, basketball, baseball, or hockey “career” in high school.

My daughter’s fiance was hoping to become a professional baseball player. But he broke his ankle in his Senior year of high school, and that was the end of that. His ankle still hurts in humid weather.

You can be an Olympian, but that’s not a career. A lot of people go to the Olympics, and then come back to the U.S. and work at regular jobs; e.g., Paul Wylie, Men’s Figure Skating Olympic Silver Medalist Albertville 1992 is now a lawyer.

Very few people make a career out of archery or gymnastics (stunt men or Cirque de Soliel) or synchronized swimming or beach volleyball or figure skating.

Many do end up as coaches, so I suppose you could call these people “career athletes.” But coaches generally do not compete and do not train at the level that the actual athletes train at. They live in normal houses and lead normal lives, except that they go to work at a rink or a field or a stadium rather than an office or factory.

Are you speaking of the United States? I’ve never heard of special schools and churches for children and teenagers who are “career athletes,” but then I’ve never heard of “child career athletes” either.

I know that there are few boarding schools in the U.S. where kids can go who want to have figure skating incorporated into their school day. Terribly expensive and not an option for most families.

I think it’s possible that there are schools that do the same thing for other sports; e.g., the U.S. ski team. (Kids who ski are somewhat limited in their choice of states to live in; i.e, an Olympic-level skier is not going to live in Northern Illinois!) But I haven’t heard of this.

There is work in progress by United States Figure Skating (the governing organization) to partner with schools to offer figure skating as an option for physical education classes. Obviously, this means that there must be a rink at the school (Michigan has 'em), or transportation to and from the rink. But in this era of obese children, schools are working to try to develop more options for physical education.

These P.E. figure skating classes would in no way, shape, or form, offer the level of coaching necessary to help a child pass any of the figure skating tests other than the Basic Skills tests. A child who wants to excel in the sport would still have to have a private coach, and put in a few hours of practice every day at their local rink.

I’ve never heard of special schools in the U.S. for children and teenagers who are in athletic training. Many of them get tutored privately, and a lot of them are homeschooled. I know quite a few figure skaters who are nationally and internationally-ranked. Most attend regular schools and keep fairly regular school hours, although they often get up at 3 or 4 in the morning to train before school.

I’ve NEVER heard of special churches for athletes, even the pros. Yes, many teams have chaplains. Car racing is a sport where the chaplain is prominent–my daughter and her husband were married by a relative of his who is a chaplain at the local drag racing track.

Many teams have Bible studies and prayer circles.

I’m guessing that some teams have a priest who always attends games and is ready to hear confessions, pray over injured players, etc.

But no special churches. Not that I know of.

??

 

[Corki]

No, but it’s how most kids enter into a personal relationship with Him, if they are attending regularly and learning together to be a small community of prayer. But in order for that to happen, they have to attend regularly - it can’t just be a secondary thing to do when there is nothing of greater eternal significance going on, such as sports and parties.

jmcrae,

I very rarely disagree with you but I find myself on the complete opposite side of this issue.

CCE (CCD, RE, PRE, whatever) is not supposed to be how “kids enter into a personal relationship with Him”. CCE is catechesis; teaching children the tenents of their faith and how to apply them in the real world. I include prayer in what I teach and we (CCE teachers) all should since Prayer is one of the four pillars of the Catechism. But the CCE class is not the community. IMO, it is damaging in the long term for kids to relate their faith experience so closely to thier peer group and not to the parish and the Church at large.

Frankly, one of the reasons my kids don’t go to CCE class now is that most of the CCE students are not the peers I want them to develop close ties with. They have good friendships in the parish: kids in Squires, fellow altar servers, and other youth in ministry. The CCE class I had last year, for example, had one (1) student who regularly attended Sunday Mass. Even the sports team has a group of Catholic families who find and attend a Mass together whenever we are at an out-of-town event. We get more positive Catholic “community” with the team than my son would get from a CCE class.

As catechesis, some kids need more supplementation than others from CCE class. For example, kids who get a good grounding in the faith at home should need very little supplementation from CCE. Likewise, kids in a good Catholic school program, hopefully, don’t need much additional catechesis. Missing an occasional CCE class is not going to be a significant detriment to their religious education overall.

If someone is making their sport to be their career, that’s different than the kid who’s just out on the field to blow off steam and bounce a ball around with friends. But the career athletes have their own special schools and churches, do they not?

No, in the US anyway, kids in competitive sports rarely have their own schools or churches. Some are homeschooled or have tutors but that is extremely rare.

puzzleannie,

In the OP, I believe, and in my own responses, there was not a question of missing Mass. In my house anyway, that’s a non-negotiable. It is missing CCE class that is in question.

And just to clarify, we don’t have, as far as I know, any team sports around here with regular practices or games on Sunday mornings. My son plays a sport where there are many tournaments. In order to get enough games in a single weekend, some games are scheduled for Sunday late morning. If the tournament is local we can go to the early Mass and then the games but can’t do Mass, CCE and the games. Of course, if the tournament is out-of-town, we go to Mass elsewhere and then the games but are not available for CCE at home.

 

[jmcrae]

I think the bottom line is, sign your kids up for what you want them to attend, and don’t sign them up for what they will not be attending. Pick one thing for each time slot that your child wants to have something to do. Don’t double-book them in the hopes that somehow they will manage to bilocate, or out of the idea that “well it’s not that important anyway, but we should have something there in case the sports get cancelled for some reason.”

It would avoid confusion on all sides.

 

[jmcrae]

Missing an occasional CCE class is not going to be a significant detriment to their religious education overall.

It’s a detriment to the CCE program, though, when occasional absences by one or two kids turn into all but two or three kids going missing for weeks at a time. It’s discouraging for the volunteers and for the kids who do make the effort to be there, which is why, in the case I was mentioning, there is serious consideration being given to the idea of canceling the whole thing.

We have always bent over backwards to try to accommodate the sports kids (extra homework, extra reading), but it seems as if the more we accommodate them, the more they feel free to skip classes, which doesn’t do the program itself any favors, when the pastor, or the head of the Finance Council, is going through the building and looking at nearly-empty classrooms.

 

[jmcrae]

No, not really.

When you speak of “career athletes,” are you talking about children and teenagers? Or adult pros? I’m not sure what you mean.

I’m talking about the Wayne Gretzky types who start when they’re five, and use up all of their spare time on their sport. I doubt that Wayne Gretzky ever signed up for CCD in the first place, so he was never marked absent. He attended hockey school rather than public school, and if he went to Church it would have been one that the school had for them to go to; he would not have signed up as a member of a church and then pleaded hockey practice every Sunday morning, to not go there for services or for Mass.

He picked what he was doing, which was hockey. That’s what we all have to do. We all have to pick what we’re doing. We can’t go along thinking we’ll do this, and then that, and then the other, until we are so overbooked and double-booked that no matter where we are, we’re supposed to be some place else.

 

[turtle18]

Typically, as the athlete progresses in his or her sport, if they miss games or practices, then they won’t be allowed to play in future games, or their playing time is cut way down. If your child is serious about the sport (possible college scholarship), then missing games or practices is not an option. When somebody is gone, it hurts the entire team.

Although it’s a tragedy that most sporting organizations don’t recognize Sunday as a day of worship, if a child wants to seriously participate in a sport, unless we have tremendous clout with the organization, then we have to go with the flow. We, as Catholics, do have many choices when it comes to Mass times, religious education, etc. With four children in highly competitive sports, my family and I have to attend Saturday evening or Sunday evening Masses quite often. Although it sickens me to see so many non-church goers at these athletic events on a Sunday, if you want to participate, there isn’t a choice.

As far as teaching your kids the faith, that’s really the parents’ responsibility. Although my wife and I teach catechism at church (for over 20 years), we teach our own children at home, attend daily Mass together as a family every day, and pray the Rosary and other prayers together as a family every day. Both of my sons would like to be priests some day, but they’re also excellent athletes, and so are my daughters. God gave them tremendous athletic abilities, and they intend to use them to help evangelize others. I used to be an Olympic level athlete, and it has given me excellent opportunities to evangelize. While avoiding sin, we shouldn’t hide our faith by avoiding the world - “Let your light shine before men.” Matt 5:16

Sunday is the Lord’s day–a day for rest and to honor God. Playing sports does neither. You don’t have to go with the flow, a true Christian stands up for their beliefs and principles. You are in fact sending a message to your kid that God is not as important as sports–it is the way you teach them to live and prioritze their lives.

 

[Bluegoat]

I’m talking about the Wayne Gretzky types who start when they’re five, and use up all of their spare time on their sport. I doubt that Wayne Gretzky ever signed up for CCD in the first place, so he was never marked absent. He attended hockey school rather than public school, and if he went to Church it would have been one that the school had for them to go to; he would not have signed up as a member of a church and then pleaded hockey practice every Sunday morning, to not go there for services or for Mass.

He picked what he was doing, which was hockey. That’s what we all have to do. We all have to pick what we’re doing. We can’t go along thinking we’ll do this, and then that, and then the other, until we are so overbooked and double-booked that no matter where we are, we’re supposed to be some place else.

I think a lot of the problem may be that most kids are not Wayne gretsky, won’t be, and really don’t want to be in any mature way.

Why do people in general, and kids in particular, play sports? For fun, for companionship, for health. With children we also often hope it will help with things like motor skills, an understanding of working toward goals or as a team, provide a habit of activity that will last through life.

Very few people will ever be elite level athletes. Not many will even be at the level where they are getting sports scholarships (even less here in Canada where they are not allowed.)

So why is it that kids sports leagues aren’t more directly geared towards these things? Do young kids in hockey really need to be going to the rink 4 mornings a week and spending a significant part of each weekend being ferried around to games? Why is it that there are far more competitive leagues than recreational ones? This is quite different than how it was 40 years ago, when the majority of organized kids sport really was recreational in nature, cost less money, and required less time.

And other kids activities also seem to want to claim their whole being. For more academically inclined kids, it seems like education wants to take up more and more time. Hours of homework each night, spending time in extra tutoring, summer camps to give kids an edge over others.

And FWIW, I don’t think the idea that some of the things kids might miss at church aren’t really important is central, simply because I don’t think it ends there. I have known of many kids who don’t attend church through hockey season at all, because the teams play Sunday mornings every week.

I think there is something very disproportionate about what we are expecting out of our kids activities.