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NightRider
Guest
and
to this one, too! Right on the money! 
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to this one, too! Right on the money!
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gardenswithkids
Guest
Notify his superiors IMMEDIATELY and with NO RESERVATIONS! You may spare others from having such “bonds” disrupt their marriages. This behavior is not normal, and you are right to be concerned. If he gets thrown out of the seminary, it is because of his behavior and not yours. If his superiors do nothing, try a private investigator.
The Bible reminds us of wolves in sheeps clothing, but unfortunately sometimes the wolves wear pastors’ clothing. At the minimun this sounds like “spiritual adultery”. I hope for both your sakes it hasn’t gone to the point of “spiritual incest.”
I also suggest that as soon as possible, you and your wife to go to confession with a different priest. There is so much healing offered in that sacrament! I pray that you both find the grace to heal you and your marriage.
The Bible reminds us of wolves in sheeps clothing, but unfortunately sometimes the wolves wear pastors’ clothing. At the minimun this sounds like “spiritual adultery”. I hope for both your sakes it hasn’t gone to the point of “spiritual incest.”
I also suggest that as soon as possible, you and your wife to go to confession with a different priest. There is so much healing offered in that sacrament! I pray that you both find the grace to heal you and your marriage.
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otm
Guest
If you are going to approach the seminary, you need to know who the spiritual formation director is. I would suggest that you have this matter in writing, and I would also suggest that someone accompany you to a face-to-face meeting with the spiritual director. Then write him a letter confirming what you have addressed in the meeting.
while you are at it, do not get into a discussion with the spritiual director over the phone; keep the phone call to the minimum of setting up a meeting. I would not even tell him what seminarian I was intending to discuss.
After that, you need to figure out how to get to his bishop/archbishop; he could be from another diocese than where the seminary is.
And before you do all of this, what will you do if this seminarian is dismissed for the seminary? What if, on being dismissed, he decides to stay in contact with your wife?
I would suggest that you do 2 things before you decide to see the spiritual director; 1 is to see an attorny who specializes in divorce. I am not suggesting that you want to go down the path; but if you escalate this, she may file. You need to know how to put yourself in the best position, particularly if there are nay children (custody is often won or lost before the filing).
2, go (by yourself) to see a good marriage counselor. You need some professional advice as to how to handle this with your wife. Failure to get that advice may lead you into a divorce, willing or not. She is going to see herself as attacked by you, that you just don’t understand, that he’s a wonderful, prayerful man of God who needs her special help. In other words, she is pgoing to react like most people do when they are out of line, and know at least subliminally they have crossed the line.
Your instincts are dead on. This situation, and your marriage, is merrily on the road to hell. How you handle it may well determine a lot of your future.
while you are at it, do not get into a discussion with the spritiual director over the phone; keep the phone call to the minimum of setting up a meeting. I would not even tell him what seminarian I was intending to discuss.
After that, you need to figure out how to get to his bishop/archbishop; he could be from another diocese than where the seminary is.
And before you do all of this, what will you do if this seminarian is dismissed for the seminary? What if, on being dismissed, he decides to stay in contact with your wife?
I would suggest that you do 2 things before you decide to see the spiritual director; 1 is to see an attorny who specializes in divorce. I am not suggesting that you want to go down the path; but if you escalate this, she may file. You need to know how to put yourself in the best position, particularly if there are nay children (custody is often won or lost before the filing).
2, go (by yourself) to see a good marriage counselor. You need some professional advice as to how to handle this with your wife. Failure to get that advice may lead you into a divorce, willing or not. She is going to see herself as attacked by you, that you just don’t understand, that he’s a wonderful, prayerful man of God who needs her special help. In other words, she is pgoing to react like most people do when they are out of line, and know at least subliminally they have crossed the line.
Your instincts are dead on. This situation, and your marriage, is merrily on the road to hell. How you handle it may well determine a lot of your future.
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felra
Guest
And now that we have the legal end of things covered …
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gardenswithkids
Guest
Now that the legal things are covered:
PRAY AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDED ON IT!
(I ask everyone who reads this to pray a Hail Mary and Our Father for you.)
Use the heavy artillery:
Rosaries, scapulas, fasting, penances, novenas, and the Mass,
Stay close to God through the sacraments.
Have a Mass (or Masses) said for yourself, your wife and the seminarian.
Go to confession often (not that your at fault, but you need Jesus fo make you as perfect as you can be to handle this with His grace.)
Ask the intercession of saints such as St. Joseph, (protector to the Church and familes)
Read your Bible daily. Ask the Holy Spirit to direct you to passages that will speak to you.
Youir faith may be tested through this whole process. May God give you His grace to pass this test with flying colors.
PRAY AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDED ON IT!
(I ask everyone who reads this to pray a Hail Mary and Our Father for you.)
Use the heavy artillery:
Rosaries, scapulas, fasting, penances, novenas, and the Mass,
Stay close to God through the sacraments.
Have a Mass (or Masses) said for yourself, your wife and the seminarian.
Go to confession often (not that your at fault, but you need Jesus fo make you as perfect as you can be to handle this with His grace.)
Ask the intercession of saints such as St. Joseph, (protector to the Church and familes)
Read your Bible daily. Ask the Holy Spirit to direct you to passages that will speak to you.
Youir faith may be tested through this whole process. May God give you His grace to pass this test with flying colors.
B
Br.Dan_OCD
Guest
Dear mickeyray,
What you described as taking place between your wife and this seminarian/religious is very disturbing. Neither of them has any business getting into such a relationship with the other–the whole situation is so wrong and their justification of it is entirely bogus. I think your course of action is to try to get your wife to abide by the agreement she made to limit contact. Ideally, they should have no personal contact at all but she would probably not agree to even try that. So, little by little, she needs to let this relationship turn into what they claim it is–spiritual. A spiritual relationship does not depend on physical (including “vocal,” in any sense of that word) contact. If they want to pray for each other and say the same prayers, fine.
They have apparently fallen for each other and it will take time and effort to “get over it” but, if they begin to limit contact so that it, over time, ends completely, it will happen. No contact whatsoever is the only goal they should have in mind.
What you described as taking place between your wife and this seminarian/religious is very disturbing. Neither of them has any business getting into such a relationship with the other–the whole situation is so wrong and their justification of it is entirely bogus. I think your course of action is to try to get your wife to abide by the agreement she made to limit contact. Ideally, they should have no personal contact at all but she would probably not agree to even try that. So, little by little, she needs to let this relationship turn into what they claim it is–spiritual. A spiritual relationship does not depend on physical (including “vocal,” in any sense of that word) contact. If they want to pray for each other and say the same prayers, fine.
They have apparently fallen for each other and it will take time and effort to “get over it” but, if they begin to limit contact so that it, over time, ends completely, it will happen. No contact whatsoever is the only goal they should have in mind.
T
Trelow
Guest
Great example of why the men and women should stick to their own kind for spiritual direction.
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mercygate
Guest
Great. Women should never have access to the spiritual resources of a priest in spiritual direction?Please.
My spiritual directors have both been Priests. I have men (including a Priest) in spiritual direction with me. Never has there been so much as a shadow of impropriety or even the temptation to it.
This particular situation needs to be recognized as irregular and corrected instanter.
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Trelow
Guest
mercygate said:
Please.
My spiritual directors have both been Priests. I have men (including a Priest) in spiritual direction with me. Never has there been so much as a shadow of impropriety or even the temptation to it.
This particular situation needs to be recognized as irregular and corrected instanter.
Not saying that, obviously a Priest should have a strong enough spiritual life to resist the temptation.
Sexuality is very spiritual. You could fill countless volumes with stories of affairs that have started out as spiritual counseling.
Every effort should be made to limit opportunities for sin to enter into our lives. And this is one of the easiest ways for it to enter.
Not meaning to belittle the situation, or distract from the thread, my prayers are with you mickeyray.
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Pinklady
Guest
Do you think there could be mental health issues at work here, in either your wife, the seminarian or both?
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Fergal
Guest
Suspicion kills the peace of the human heart.
You must sit and discuss with your wife what you are willing to discuss with us.
She needs to know how you feel and you need to know why they feel the need to be so close.
Brother & sister stuff? Rubbish.
His centre of attention should be God and the preparation for dedicated service to Him for life. You wife’s centre of attention should be her spouse.
Your centre of attention now should be your wife and not us.
May God bless you and heal the suspicion that exists at this time.
You must sit and discuss with your wife what you are willing to discuss with us.
She needs to know how you feel and you need to know why they feel the need to be so close.
Brother & sister stuff? Rubbish.
His centre of attention should be God and the preparation for dedicated service to Him for life. You wife’s centre of attention should be her spouse.
Your centre of attention now should be your wife and not us.
May God bless you and heal the suspicion that exists at this time.
O
otm
Guest
What, you assume he should just be a sucker and let this find it’s logical conclusion? I don’t suggest that he file. I suggest that since she has broken her promise, and is now hiding things and deleting email after promising to back off, this has taken a turn for the worse.And now that we have the legal end of things covered …
This situation has been played out so many times that there is no excuse for being stupid; and if he sits there wishing and hoping, and doesn’t protect himself, he will only be in a worse fix. I don’t know if he has kids, but the most likely scenario if he does, is she files for divorce, kicks him out of the house on the pretext of violence, gets physical custody, and at the end of the lawsuit, she has legal custody and he gets the bills. Oh, and the priviledge of seeing his children for maybe all of 4 days a month.
He asked for advice. If you have better advice than I gave, perhaps giving that instead of a snide comment might further the discussion.
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Princess_Abby
Guest
i didn’t take felra’s comment as being rude or snide…i think he/she was actually sort of being appreciative and “cute.”
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Faithful_2_Rome
Guest
Sounds like you need to treat this guy with some “street talk”…he isnt respecting YOU…he is making a move on your wife…regardless of the manner of relationship…forget he’s a seminarian…how would you react if he was an accountant, a doctor, etc? Its your wife and maybe you need to let this guy know if he comes around its gonna get messy…I could care less about helping him salvage his “calling” and making sure hes on the right path…you had your talk, you laid your concerns on the line with them both… take the gloves off with this jerk…and if your wife resents you for it, maybe that could be a signal about where you are in your marriage and if that is meant to continue.
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catechistben
Guest
Faithful 2 Rome:
You and your wife need to get into marriage counseling asap. I have seen this so many times and it is not headed in the right direction. If you stand idly by, I am afraid you will pay dearly for it. I will keep your situation in my prayers.
CB
AMEN to that!!! Men that mess with other men’s wives and families (physically and emotionally) lack the moral fiber and strength of character to be REAL men, let alone PRIESTS! Call a spade a spade and make sure you let him know what he really is…a fraud and disgrace to seminarians and priests all over the world. Let him know that he is messing with your family and you will do whatever it takes to put a stop to this…threaten him with going to his superiors. Within the bounds of the law I would say nothing is off limits in order to arrest the situation. Seminarian or not, this guy is a scumbag. Stop this relationship dead in its tracks if it is not already too late, or it will most certainly bite you in the you know what. Hopefully your wife is not so far gone into this that she cannot come to her senses. I have seen so many people get involved with each other in inappropriate emotional relationships (that move on to more) and not be able to stop (it is like an addiction). Stop this now if you can…take the bull by the horns and do not back down. This is not an issue that can or should be compromised on.
You and your wife need to get into marriage counseling asap. I have seen this so many times and it is not headed in the right direction. If you stand idly by, I am afraid you will pay dearly for it. I will keep your situation in my prayers.
CB
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felra
Guest
Thank you for correctly clarifying this (I am a *he *by the way) …otm I am all for the prudent and proper (and aggressive) place for protecting one’s and one’s children best interest, especially if you are in the right. Maybe I could have chosen a different smiley face …maybe you need to assume the best charitable intent of others before … or,if you really want to know, do some homework and read previous posts of the the member to get a flavor for their posting.
.
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otm
Guest
Actually, I hadn’t even looked at the smiley. I have been roundly and soundly criticized by Pollyanna Christians who see any talk about an attorney as anti-marriage, grossly sinful, suggesting an adulterous outlook (by suggesting a violation of the marriage covenant) and a short road to hell (for me, accompanied by anyone who would dare even consider such advice). Perhaps I gave a knee-jerk response. If so, my apologies for the salvo.Thank you for correctly clarifying this (I am a *he *by the way) …otm I am all for the prudent and proper (and aggressive) place for protecting one’s and one’s children best interest, especially if you are in the right. Maybe I could have chosen a different smiley face …maybe you need to assume the best charitable intent of others before … or,if you really want to know, do some homework and read previous posts of the the member to get a flavor for their posting.
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wonkimoto
Guest
I’m sorry things are not going well. I hope everything is fine. Don’t be anxious, just do what you have to. I will certainly pray for you you and your wife.
M
MichaelTDoyle
Guest
(I ask everyone who reads this to pray a Hail Mary and Our Father for you.)
I did and wow, really good advice for any adversity…
M
mickeyray
Guest
I just want to give thanks to all of you for your prayers words of advice. It really has helped tremendously. My approach to this situation is going to be based on taking parts of many suggestions you all have offered. I have decided to approach this issue much more decisively then the last time, with much more ridged boundaries. And there will be decisive actions taken to insure this sort of thing does not occur again with me or anyone else. My initial dilemma was really over the proper level of tolerance I should have in this situation, given the facts. I was certain of my gut instinct, which said this whole situation was not right, but I wanted to hear some more objective viewpoints, outside of the situation. I have always trusted my gut in the past, and it has always guided me well, (provided I was in a state of grace). But with the stakes this high I wanted to be sure that my head was matching up with my gut feelings. I sensed something was wrong and you all have helped confirm that. Your posts have really helped me clarify that and consider this situation from different viewpoints of people of faith. NOW it is time to rectify the situation. The next step will not be easy and there will undoubtedly be anxiety and some pain, but my hope is that growth will be the result. We shall see, over the next few days. I have, and will continue to share what has been said here on this forum with my wife. It has indeed had a ministering effect. Thank you all once again, and especially for your prayers! -Sincerely in Christ, mickeyray
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