Spread of Catholicism in India

[dzheremi]

…And inquisition was indeed unleashed on the Hindus of Goa, under Portugese domination. It continued till 1812. The “loving” jesuits, demonicans, franciscans etc vied with each other in unleashing most inhuman violence against Hindus.

And your co-religionists do it today in Orissa and elsewhere against Christians. What is your point? That all religions have a fair share of blood on their hands? I don’t think anyone would dispute that, but you certainly would not disavow your own religion because of it, so neither would any Christian theirs.

The Portuguese, who I will admit did some terrible things in India, were veryyyy late to India, anyway. Christianity came with our very much beloved St. Thomas in 52 A.D., nearly1500 years before the Portuguese. It came without any European ships or power or desire for riches. Tradition tells us that St. Thomas met his martyrdom there, too. Can you also blame him for any evil? It would be a bigggg stretch of the truth, my friend.

 

[rcscwc]

I hope you mean Dominicans .

That was a terrible crime committed by a country, not a religion. They punished non Portugese Catholic priests and Indian Catholics too. It was a means of social control rather than a religious act.

Actively committed by monks of all colors. No matter who it was. After all the inquisition was started on advice of Xavier. That satan is the original culprit.

 

[rcscwc]

And your co-religionists do it today in Orissa and elsewhere against Christians. What is your point?

Trouble in Orissa started after the xians brutally murdered Swamy Laxmananad. GFA in 2006 had asked: When will be taught a lesson? It came in Aug 2008.

[quoteThat all religions have a fair share of blood on their hands? I don’t think anyone would dispute that, but you certainly would not disavow your own religion because of it, so neither would any Christian theirs.
[/quote]

So far, inqyuisition was carried out only by the xian church. Show us such organised crimes by any other religion.

The Portuguese, who I will admit did some terrible things in India, were veryyyy late to India, anyway. Christianity came with our very much beloved St. Thomas in 52 A.D., nearly1500 years before the Portuguese. It came without any European ships or power or desire for riches. Tradition tells us that St. Thomas met his martyrdom there, too. Can you also blame him for any evil? It would be a bigggg stretch of the truth, my friend.

Portugese came in 1498. Much beforexians came, Jews were already settled. Xians came about 100 ADC escaping persecution. Later another wave of Jews came escaping persecutions. Later both xians and Jews esxcaped to India etc. But only the Portugese, instigated by Xavier, started organised crimes of inquisition.

 

[chrisse]

There are many Hindu’s who ignore the atrocities done to them by the islamic imperialist invasions.

This suggests to me, they are filled with hatred and bigotry, rather than any just cause.

 

[dzheremi]

Trouble in Orissa started after the xians brutally murdered Swamy Laxmananad. GFA in 2006 had asked: When will be taught a lesson? It came in Aug 2008.

Yes, Christianity and Naxalite politics (Maoism, which is NOT a religious ideology!) do not mix, just as Islam and politics do not mix, and Hinduism and politics do not mix, and so on and so forth. “When will (they) be taught a lesson?” Who are “they”, exactly? Is Sister Meena Lalita, who was raped by Hindu extermists looking to take revenge on any Christian just because they are Christian, one of “them”?

Is this little girl one of “them”? What did she do to Swamy Laxmananad?

Collective punishment of all Christians in Orissa is just as wrong as the murder that you claim started all of this. The answer to violence is not more violence, and Hindu extremists need a lesson in this as much as anyone else.

So far, inqyuisition was carried out only by the xian church. Show us such organised crimes by any other religion.

Are you kidding me? Look, it is not up to me if you want to hate Christians forever and wish us all dead because of what a group of cruel imperialists did 600 years ago, or what some sick Maoist thugs did or do now. To be honest, I hate the actions of those people, too. But this is surely not a good deflection on your part, and if you think I will shy away from this topic, you are wrong. “Organized crimes” by any other religion, you ask? What about the bombings of mosques by the Bajrang Dal in 2003? Violence in Gujarat against Muslims for what…being Muslims? And against Christians in Orissa for what…being Christians? I have seen the leaflets that were distributed by the VHP activists in Orissa asking that any concerned bring their own items to attack Christians with. It is disgusting and I won’t stand for it, and if any Christian would make a similar request, I would also condemn it in the strongest possible terms. But if we begin to kill each other because of past wrongs, then eventually everyone in every country will die, because there is no end to the cruelty that one group can inflict on another, if not for religion than for politics or race or sex or any other stupid reason. Why this is “Christians” or “Hindus” fault specifically, I do not know. I just know that I do not like your way of thinking.

Portugese came in 1498. Much beforexians came, Jews were already settled. Xians came about 100 ADC escaping persecution. Later another wave of Jews came escaping persecutions. Later both xians and Jews esxcaped to India etc. But only the Portugese, instigated by Xavier, started organised crimes of inquisition.

All of this agrees with what I wrote earlier (though I don’t know much about the Jews other than that there was or is a community at Cochin who have mostly moved to Israel, so I didn’t think of them), so I don’t object to any of it. Thank you.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

Portugese came in 1498. Much beforexians came, Jews were already settled. Xians came about 100 ADC escaping persecution. Later another wave of Jews came escaping persecutions. Later both xians and Jews esxcaped to India etc. But only the Portugese, instigated by Xavier, started organised crimes of inquisition.

RCSCWC:

Considering Hinduism is a confederation of religions, may I ask you from which part of India you are, what Hindu god you worship and what Hindu philosophy you follow?

You don’t seem to be informed about the history of Christianity in Kerala. It would be nice if you could look up reliable information. Here is one source:

trichurarchdiocese.org

And do read up from reliable sources about the missionary work of St Francis Xavier in India. He is the one who lived among fishermen in Kerala and mass converted many of them. He did not come from Rome as inquistor.

Also read up from reliable sources what exactly Inquisition means, when it happened, where and for what reasons. The only accusation I have heard thus far about European Christian missionaries is that they induced conversions by giving material goods to poor people of low castes. Unlike Apostle Thomas who converted many high caste Hindus, including some Nambudiri Brahmins, European missionaries who came fifteen centuries later converted mostly low Hindu caste. But even so, there are some Catholics from Goa and Karnataka (Mangalore) who claim to have been converted from high caste, including Sarswat Brahmins. They speak Konkani and are very fair skinned.

This allegation about Christianity having been all about violence, inquisition etc is very new. Are you sure you are not getting things mixed up because conversion at the point of a sword is attributed to Islamic invaders? Why don’t you ask the Goans themselves how they were converted?

Maoists claimed responsibility for the murder of the Hindu priest. Why do you continue to accuse the innocent Dalit Christian community of Orissa?

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

St Francis Xavier, the first Roman Catholic missionary to India. The information is very basic and may not be complete or correct in all details but it is a bit more authentic than Wikipedia.

newadvent.org/cathen/06233b.htm

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

For further information on the spread of Roman Catholicism in India please contact the Archdiocese of Goa and Daman:

archgoadaman.org/

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

"FOR PEACE AND HARMONY LIVE ACCORDING TO SACRED WRITINGS”

The Catholic Bishops of India appeal to all citizens of India

Conference of Catholic Bishops of India (CCBI) XXI PLENARY ASSEMBLY, Mysore, from February 12 -18, 2009

India is a land of saints and sages with a rich spiritual and cultural heritage of literature, beliefs and traditions. We appreciate, among other things, the respect our people have for sacred texts and their thirst for contemplation. We praise God for this “patrimony of the human family” (John Paul II, The Church in Asia, no. 6). Our gathering, however, takes place at a crucial moment in the life of our nation which is facing many challenges: the effects of the worldwide economic meltdown; the scourge of terrorism; the injustice of discrimination based on sex, caste and creed, etc. We are especially concerned about the phenomenon of religious fanaticism and intolerance which has led to repeated attacks and violence against the minorities in India. This near-crisis situation shows the importance of building our lives on the firm foundation of the Word. “The word of God is the basis of everything, it is the true reality. And to be realists, we should count on this reality” (Pope Benedict XVI, Address to XII Synod of Bishops).

 

[chrisse]

"FOR PEACE AND HARMONY LIVE ACCORDING TO SACRED WRITINGS”

The Catholic Bishops of India appeal to all citizens of India

Conference of Catholic Bishops of India (CCBI) XXI PLENARY ASSEMBLY, Mysore, from February 12 -18, 2009

India is a land of saints and sages with a rich spiritual and cultural heritage of literature, beliefs and traditions. We appreciate, among other things, the respect our people have for sacred texts and their thirst for contemplation. We praise God for this “patrimony of the human family” (John Paul II, The Church in Asia, no. 6). Our gathering, however, takes place at a crucial moment in the life of our nation which is facing many challenges: the effects of the worldwide economic meltdown; the scourge of terrorism; the injustice of discrimination based on sex, caste and creed, etc. We are especially concerned about the phenomenon of religious fanaticism and intolerance which has led to repeated attacks and violence against the minorities in India. This near-crisis situation shows the importance of building our lives on the firm foundation of the Word. “The word of God is the basis of everything, it is the true reality. And to be realists, we should count on this reality” (Pope Benedict XVI, Address to XII Synod of Bishops).

Thank you S J.

We all must pray for this very troubled part of the world, which is ready to ignite with devastating consequences.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

Thank you S J.

We all must pray for this very troubled part of the world, which is ready to ignite with devastating consequences.

Thank you for your prayers, Chrisse.

One should not mistake militant fascist Hinduism, a socio-political movement of the recent past, starting in 1925, for Hinduism the religion. With all its limitations, there are many things that Christians can learn from Hinduism because it is an ancient ocean, a confederation of religions, with many different spiritual paths and philosophies.

**I would earnestly request all Catholics to read the Second Vatican Council documents and about the efforts of the Catholic Church to build bridges with other religions based on mutual respect.
**

Militant fascist Hindus are motivated by power politics, not by religion or God. They have merely invented a Hinduism of their own to serve their purpose.

 

[chrisse]

Thank you for your prayers, Chrisse.

One should not mistake militant fascist Hinduism, a socio-political movement of the recent past, starting in 1925, for Hinduism the religion. With all its limitations, there are many things that Christians can learn from Hinduism because it is an ancient ocean, a confederation of religions, with many different spiritual paths and philosophies.

**I would earnestly request all Catholics to read the Second Vatican Council documents and about the efforts of the Catholic Church to build bridges with other religions based on mutual respect.
**

Militant fascist Hindus are motivated by power politics, not by religion or God. They have merely invented a Hinduism of their own to serve their purpose.

S J, I never associate these “Hindu” nationalists with the Hindu religion. They are not associated, and the nationalists are not motivated by their faith.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

S J, I never associate these “Hindu” nationalists with the Hindu religion. They are not associated, and the nationalists are not motivated by their faith.

Thank God for that Chrisse. To associate militant fascists with Hinduism is doing great injustice to a religion that has so much to offer us as Christians. Hindu kings in the past have never persecuted people of other faiths. The caste system in Hinduism keeps priests from meddling in politics, even though they are consulted for details such as auspicious times for a particular activity and to do Poojas. So a king is expected to rule all his subjects with justice and fairness, irrespective of their religion. Because Hinduism has so many different gods and so many different philosophies, and the basic understanding of Hinduism is that there is only one God but people worship Him under different names, it is impossible for a real Hindu to treat other religions with contempt. Hinduism can absorb all religious philosophies because Hinduism itself has many philosophies.

Kerala, the state I come from, celebrates a unique Hindu festival, not celebrated elsewhere in India. It is in memory of a benevolent Hindu king who loved all his subjects that he boasted he could grant anyone any wish. So Lord Vishnu, one of the most important Gods in Hinduism, came in the form of a little Brahmin boy and challenged the king. He asked the king if he would grant him as much land as his three child footsteps covered. The king laughed and granted the wish of the little “boy.” With the first step, Lord Vishnu covered Kerala, with the second he covered the earth, and he had no place to put his foot down with his third step. So he asked the king where he many place his foot. The king realized who was speaking to him, and humbly bent his head and said that Lord Vishnu in the form of a little Brahmin boy, may rest his feet on the king’s head. The king was sent to the equivalent of Hindu heaven as a reward. The king requested that he be allowed to visit his people once a year to know if all were happy. The feast of Onam is the people of Kerala welcoming the visit of their God fearing king and assuring him that they were all happy and prosperous. Onam is a cultural festival shared celebrated by all Keralites, even if it is specifically celebrated by Hindus. They have several rituals associated with it.

This is just what I know about Onam. Maybe a Hindu from Kerala would be able to give better and more exact details.

The Nambudiri Brahmins of Kerala are ultra-orthodox. They are the Hindus who follow the most ancient form of Hinduism in India.

 

[chrisse]

Thank God for that Chrisse. To associate militant fascists with Hinduism is doing great injustice to a religion that has so much to offer us as Christians. Hindu kings in the past have never persecuted people of other faiths. The caste system in Hinduism keeps priests from meddling in politics, even though they are consulted for details such as auspicious times for a particular activity and to do Poojas. So a king is expected to rule all his subjects with justice and fairness, irrespective of their religion. Because Hinduism has so many different gods and so many different philosophies, and the basic understanding of Hinduism is that there is only one God but people worship Him under different names, it is impossible for a real Hindu to treat other religions with contempt. Hinduism can absorb all religious philosophies because Hinduism itself has many philosophies.

Hinduism seems very complex to an outsider. Thanks for the further explanation.

The world seems to ignore the Hindu’s persecution at the hands of Islam (Hindu’s included). But that seems in line with the ignorance of the persecution of all others by Islam. It seems at times that if “Christians” were not involved, it has no relevance.

Pakistan is not a country I’d like to have next door. However, their government has brought it on themselves. And, as they are muslim, they should have been fully aware of what would happen.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

The greatest Hindu reformer and saint, is Adi Shankara, better known as Shankaracharya. His is known in Hinduism for his philosophy of Vedanta. He is credited with winning back Buddhists converts to Hinduism, with debates, not violence! It is claimed he integrated Buddhist philosophy into Hinduism, even though he was not a Buddhist and did not study Buddhist texts.

Adi Shankara/Shankaracharya was a Hindu Nambudiri Brahmin from Kerala who lived 788-820 AD.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

Adi Shankara or Shankaracharya was a Hindu philosopher (not a social reformer) and saint. His philosophy of Advaidya Vedanta carries the seed for social reform, but he himself was a sannyasi scholar and saint, who had contact only with other Hindu sannyasis and scholars. He died at a young age achieving an incredible lot for Hinduism .

Famous Hindu social reformers in the years after British came to India seem to have been influenced by Christianity in one way or another. Raja Rammohan Roy, a Bengali, who played a big role along with the British (first made laws banning the practice) in abolishing *Sati *(burning of brides in the funeral pyre of the husband) is among the earliest ones.

 

[chrisse]

Adi Shankara or Shankaracharya was a Hindu philosopher (not a social reformer) and saint. His philosophy of Advaidya Vedanta carries the seed for social reform, but he himself was a sannyasi scholar and saint, who had contact only with other Hindu sannyasis and scholars. He died at a young age achieving an incredible lot for Hinduism .

Famous Hindu social reformers in the years after British came to India seem to have been influenced by Christianity in one way or another. Raja Rammohan Roy, a Bengali, who played a big role along with the British (first made laws banning the practice) in abolishing *Sati *(burning of brides in the funeral pyre of the husband) is among the earliest ones.

Indians are able to blend well into societies they emigrate to, and have a lot to offer. I love the sari’s; they are beautiful. They add a nice touch. The Hindu’s have a love of knowledge and are open to new thought and ideas - they are not stuck in the 7th Century with nowhere to go.