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z_0101
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Hard enough to get the Catholic families to send their kids to Catholic schools let-alone a protestant or non-Christian family.
How is non-Catholic going to feel attending the Mass? I’ll tell you, Out of Place and dis-respected. Sorry, but it’s true, I was a non-Catholic when we started sending our oldest child to the Catholic school; thus, I know first hand what it felt like to attend a Mass. Thankfully, we met some very wonderful people and a good Catholic family that really took an interest in making us feel welcome and at home.
If this had been in place when we started sending my oldest child to the Catholic schools:
How is non-Catholic going to feel attending the Mass? I’ll tell you, Out of Place and dis-respected. Sorry, but it’s true, I was a non-Catholic when we started sending our oldest child to the Catholic school; thus, I know first hand what it felt like to attend a Mass. Thankfully, we met some very wonderful people and a good Catholic family that really took an interest in making us feel welcome and at home.
If this had been in place when we started sending my oldest child to the Catholic schools:
- she wouldn’t have attended
- my family would never have converted
- we wouldn’t have the wonderful friends that we have now because we met them thru the school and the Church.
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revert_jen
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If I had to guess, they are trying to avoid the situation where they get sued because some child with married gay parents is taught in school that homosexual behavior and homosexual marriage are wrong. There has to be a way that Catholic schools are allowed to teach Catholic doctrine without getting sued, and I think they are experimenting with that as one (quite possibly flawed) way.
–Jen
–Jen
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Zoltan_Cobalt
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You could be right, Jen. I have heard that many dioceses are “lawyering up” for exactly the reason you mention.
My first impression is that Springfield’s Catholic schools have waiting lists of students and can afford to turn people away.
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utah_rose
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I’m against them also being forced to attend Mass and contribute to the parish. That said, maybe all parents of any students attending would have an understanding that their marriages would have to conform to the Church’s teachings. But I’d think in reality many Catholic parents are divorced and remarried. But to be fair they’d have to do that to eliminate live ins or SS couples. From what I’ve read though, most of the problems have been the teachers who are divorced and remarried or in SS relationships. I think that should be addressed first.
If the non Catholic parents don’t want their kids learning about Catholic teachings, it should be a no brainier for their kids to attend another private school that’s not religious.
Maybe these parents would be better of starting their own schools, or establishing charter schools.
If the non Catholic parents don’t want their kids learning about Catholic teachings, it should be a no brainier for their kids to attend another private school that’s not religious.
Maybe these parents would be better of starting their own schools, or establishing charter schools.
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ComplineSanFran
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In San Francisco, however, the Catholic schools I know have for years encouraged non-Catholics to attend, have encouraged diversity, and have marketed themselves as open and inclusive. So now that their faculty and student body has achieved that goal, do you want to toss everyone out and start from the beginning with only Roman Catholic faculty and families? Not an easy task, either logistically or financially.
From Sacred Heart Cathedral Prep… ‘Students and their families choose SHC for the strength of our academics, our diverse array of cocurricular opportunities and for the warmth of our inclusive and nurturing community. The tenets that SHC was founded upon in 1852 remain today: a commitment to serving San Francisco’s diverse youth and providing an academically rigorous, Catholic education.’
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JD1789
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I’m very glad you converted, but I have a hard time belie wing God wouldn’t have found another way to lead you to His Church! A model based off of Wichita is a great way to go. Tuition free schooling as long as one attends mass and tithes has benefited many families and children. This model of stewardship also includes perpetual adoration chapels at parishes as small as 500 families, 57 seminarians, and the birthplace of the youth catechetical program Totus Tuus.
There are many paths to the Church and I’m sure you still would have found it!
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Allegra
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In my opinion, a school should put the best interest of the children first. It’s not the child’s fault if his parents don’t stack up to what we think parent’s should be. The child should not be penalized for what he can’t control. That being said, I don’t see why the schools don’t simply say that their primary mission is to teach the Catholic faith and there’s no reason to have students who are not being raised Catholic in their school. That ought to cover any predicted problems with over-litigious non-Catholics trying to sue the school. However, if they are going to open their admission to non-Catholic students, then I think it should be done by lottery or by the merit of the student, not the parent.
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ARSpade
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And based on the statements made by SF teachers students, and parents against the archbishop it becomes clear why Springfield is doing something like this.
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Kenny_Kamel
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You are correct, I live next to Bishop Paprocki and have a great relationship with him. Last Sunday we celebrated our annual Humane Vitae Mass and afterwards a priest offered a presentation which touched on this. Bishop Paprocki stated that this is about having parents, legal guardians, etc sign an agreement that if their children will attend a diocesan school they cannot stir up trouble. We have had many people do just that over the past few years, things like excommunicated Catholics seeking to have a Rosary FOR same-sex marriage in our Cathedral, protests outside churches, tons of negative media misinformation, etc.
FYI the State Journal Register is well known for being an anti-Catholic news entity.
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z_0101
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hmm…
- We have the out of Parish and in Parish difference for tuition.
- Stewardship, we do ask parents to assist in whatever way they can by serving on the various committees, cleaning (we had an influenza outbreak, seemed like half the school was sick, closed down, cleaned every surface with some form of disinfectant - without the parents, this would have cost a fortune to do!) - but forcing the Mass… hard enough to get regular attendance and forcing someone to attend a Mass invalidates the Sacrament for that person - neither sin nor Sacrament can be compelled.
- Preventing lawsuits… this option is not the best. Better to include binding arbitration in the contract and clearly state, and have the attending student families agree to, the foundational teachings of the faith. Once a person signs that contract, they are stuck. This isn’t like the bakery providing a general public service, this is a “private” school that people opt in to with full knowledge.
- as for the path to conversion… now, I would agree with you… then, nope - staunch agnostic and had a low regard for the “corporate structure” of organized religion (I stress the “corporate” context in that I had/have a respect for people’s faiths).
Even with the school and the families we met along the path I was on, the good Lord put **five **priests in my life that **all **have a science background and so much more happened during the RCIA (many would think me crazy if I were to tell all of what happened)… one could almost hear the Lord say… “dumb ox.”
– but what I am getting at here… why make that path for others so much darker by the Springfield policy. IMHO, without all of the facts, this appears to me to be short-sighted.
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ComplineSanFran
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AR Spade, do take a look at the news coming out of San Francisco. The teachers and the Archdiocese came to an agreement Wednesday and signed the contracts. The morality clause did not make it in. No ‘ministerial’ language.
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sallybutler
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SH (Christian Brothers) & St Ignatius (Jesuit) are not parish schools. The kids that go to either school are from all the parishes in the city, along with Daly City. It would be hard to know if they went to mass or not.
The school I went to in SF, Convent of the Sacred Heart (not related to SHCP) was not a diocesan school. I forget what the status of SH & SI are in that regard. It’s been a few years
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Zoltan_Cobalt
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All,Catholic schools are diocesan schools. I believe The Convent of the Sacred Heart was privately funded and did not receive diocesan $$$ support. However it still came under the authority of the Bishop.SH (Christian Brothers) & St Ignatius (Jesuit) are not parish schools. The kids that go to either school are from all the parishes in the city, along with Daly City. It would be hard to know if they went to mass or not.
The school I went to in SF, Convent of the Sacred Heart (not related to SHCP) was not a diocesan school. I forget what the status of SH & SI are in that regard. It’s been a few years
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Zoltan_Cobalt
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Very interesting development.
The contract says the purpose of Catholic schools is “to affirm Catholic values through the Gospel of Jesus Christ.” It says that teachers are expected to support the school’s purpose “in such a way that their personal conduct will not adversely impact their ability to teach in our Catholic high schools.”
The morality clause was left out and so was the requirement for teachers to have a "ministerial role.”
Remember also that the Supreme Court recognized that teachers at religious schools can be held to standards of behavior without putting religious schools at risk of employment lawsuits.
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Ridgerunner
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I often wonder how people who tout “diversity” in school contexts picture it concretely. What does it mean, exactly, and why is it desirable for children?
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ComplineSanFran
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That’s a good question. In the San Francisco Bay Area, the word ‘diversity’ means very concrete things. In the case of the schools, they are proud of families that are multi-religious, multi-cultural, from different financial backgrounds, non-traditional families, LGBT students as well as families.
Inclusive = pro LGBT
Sacred Heart is known for being a solid academic and inclusive, diverse school.
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Ridgerunner
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Intending no offense, but with the exception of the different financial backgrounds, it sounds to me like the very last place I would want one of my grandchildren to attend.
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HollyDolly
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My dad and his brother attended St.John 's School in Hot Springs way back in the 1920s and 30s. I recall my dad saying many of the kids that went there weren’t even catholic.
I don’t know how the sisters handled the religion issue with non catholics.
Forcing the non catholics to go mass according to that family agreement and tith to the parish when they are paying tuition I think is wrong.
Protestants sent their kids to catholic schools because they believed the sisters gave a better education than public schools. Whatever the system years ago the Church used seemed to work.My feeling is if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
I don’t know how the sisters handled the religion issue with non catholics.
Forcing the non catholics to go mass according to that family agreement and tith to the parish when they are paying tuition I think is wrong.
Protestants sent their kids to catholic schools because they believed the sisters gave a better education than public schools. Whatever the system years ago the Church used seemed to work.My feeling is if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
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ARSpade
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It basically means you’re shelling out good money to send your kids to what’s basically the same as a public school but sometimes they go to mass.
At the Catholic school my mom teaches at that’s the only real difference, sometimes they go to mass and they wear uniforms. Heck, they teach condom use and the pill at the place in Health class but don’t ever mention NFP at all. Ever.
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