SSPX’s Bishop Fellay: Little By Little Rome Is Giving Us All We Need for Reconciliation
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TwoNames
Guest
Thank God for that, Hope to see them back soon!
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Joe_5859
Guest
It’s somewhat ironic that the reconciliation seems closer to happening under Francis than Benedict seeing as how the perception is that Benedict would be much closer theologically to the SSPX than Francis is. Grant it, Benedict did pave the way with some key acts (e.g. lifting the excommunications, Summorum Pontificum). But things had somewhat stalled.
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LaetenturCaeli
Guest
We shall see.
For the good of all the souls in some way involved with the SSPX, I of course would love to see everything normalized.
But I suspect that many souls have drifted because of, frankly, being scandalized by the SSPX, and I’m deeply saddened by that.
For the good of all the souls in some way involved with the SSPX, I of course would love to see everything normalized.
But I suspect that many souls have drifted because of, frankly, being scandalized by the SSPX, and I’m deeply saddened by that.
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RPRPsych
Guest
My.position, too.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
If SSPX comes back into full union with the Church, don’t expect to see them bringing peace and a spirit of unity. They’ll demand that Catholics reject what they reject, and it will be Pope Francis himself, like they rejected St Pope John Paul II.
If anything, they’ll bring discourse and division, as they did in their early years.
I pray for them and hope I’m wrong, but my experience with them feeds my skepticism
Jim
If anything, they’ll bring discourse and division, as they did in their early years.
I pray for them and hope I’m wrong, but my experience with them feeds my skepticism
Jim
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Justin_Swanton
Guest
The time when Catholics who believed all of Catholicism, some of it, or none of it, could more-or-less bump along together is coming to an end in any case.
In ye olden days - the pre-Francis era - the Church acted as a sort of umbrella organisation, officially upholding Catholic doctrine and moral discipline, but not doing anything effective to oblige Catholics to conform to it. You could thank a Paul VI or John Paul II for maintaining the Church’s teaching on contraception, and go up to Communion with a fellow parishioner who took the pill without a qualm.
Things have changed now. The perception that the highest Ecclesiastical authority is prepared to compromise on a crucial moral issue has openly divided the hierarchy, and that division will filter down to the rank and file. Uneasy coexistence is giving way to a separating out of Catholics, with all the suspicion and hostility such a separation creates. In this new atmosphere the SSPX will be quite at home. How many conservative Catholics are secretly saying to themselves: “Dammit but they were right all along”?
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Justin_Swanton
Guest
Mass in the Extraordinary Form.
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robertmidwest
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TheDoctor
Guest
That is partly what the Pope said:The Pope, asked about the Society of St. Pius X, said, “They love the Church … These are Catholics on the path towards full communion.”
Describing the Society’s superior general, Bishop Bernard Fellay, as a “man with whom one can dialogue,” the Pope characterized a personal prelature as a “possible solution, but first it is necessary to establish a fundamental agreement with them. Vatican Council II has its value.”
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=28317&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CatholicWorldNewsFeatureStories+%28Catholic+World+News+%28on+CatholicCulture.org%29%29
Bold part is mine. Sigh.
Nothing to see here folks, please move along.
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phil19034
Guest
This will depend on the priests in the SSPX. If they preach that all is good, all will be good. If they don’t and still openly challenge bishops, etc; I would expect to see some excommunications and/or another splinter in the SSPX, i.e. some breaking away to start their own schismatic order or join with the SSPV
I pray that doesn’t happen.
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bobballen_18
Guest
That is good news. It is indeed ironic that it is happening (I guess it’s much more accurate to say “might happen” than “is happening”, but yeah) under Pope Francis!
Certainly there isn’t guaranteed “peace and unity” if the SSPX is regularized. “Peace” and “unity” is completely worthless - and near impossible, I might add - without truth, i.e. upholding Catholic teaching and living, which I firmly believe that the SSPX - despite any flaws their priests and those who attend their chapels, may have (we all have flaws anyway) - has done to the utmost of their ability in the way they know how. And many Catholics today are perfectly content to live worldly lives not in full conformity to the truths of the Catholic Church. We live in an increasingly secular world, one increasingly devoid of being guided by Christian and/or Catholic principles, even amongst Catholics themselves. So no, the SSPX being regularized, if it happens, will not necessarily bring “peace and unity”. What it would bring is more (licit) traditional liturgies, and also more unapologetically Catholic teaching and good, solid example of good, solid Catholic living, all of which would be good for modern Catholics to be exposed to. Obviously, there are plenty of good non-SSPX examples for Catholics these days, but the more the better, and many SSPX priests and those who attend their chapels are very obviously holy and/or striving for greater holiness and union with God.
The only thing that they would have to work on, really, once in full communion and given more freedom in Catholic circles, is - without changing their message - doing their absolute best not to come off as uncharitable. Of course, to some people, any “religious” perspective, and especially some of the perspectives the SSPX and other “traditional” groups tend to hold, is “uncharitable”, no matter in how loving a way it is presented, so of course many people will reject them no matter what, including other Catholics themselves.
Certainly there isn’t guaranteed “peace and unity” if the SSPX is regularized. “Peace” and “unity” is completely worthless - and near impossible, I might add - without truth, i.e. upholding Catholic teaching and living, which I firmly believe that the SSPX - despite any flaws their priests and those who attend their chapels, may have (we all have flaws anyway) - has done to the utmost of their ability in the way they know how. And many Catholics today are perfectly content to live worldly lives not in full conformity to the truths of the Catholic Church. We live in an increasingly secular world, one increasingly devoid of being guided by Christian and/or Catholic principles, even amongst Catholics themselves. So no, the SSPX being regularized, if it happens, will not necessarily bring “peace and unity”. What it would bring is more (licit) traditional liturgies, and also more unapologetically Catholic teaching and good, solid example of good, solid Catholic living, all of which would be good for modern Catholics to be exposed to. Obviously, there are plenty of good non-SSPX examples for Catholics these days, but the more the better, and many SSPX priests and those who attend their chapels are very obviously holy and/or striving for greater holiness and union with God.
The only thing that they would have to work on, really, once in full communion and given more freedom in Catholic circles, is - without changing their message - doing their absolute best not to come off as uncharitable. Of course, to some people, any “religious” perspective, and especially some of the perspectives the SSPX and other “traditional” groups tend to hold, is “uncharitable”, no matter in how loving a way it is presented, so of course many people will reject them no matter what, including other Catholics themselves.
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RPRPsych
Guest
Great post.
The “ideal” (win-win) situation, as I see it, would be:
- a truce between the Church and the SSPX on those issues which are particularly contentious (OF vs. EF, religious liberty, EENS, ecumenism)
- the SSPX becoming a “stream” within the Church whose particular charism would be devotion to the Traditional form of the liturgy. Like any other such “stream” (monasticism, missionary orders, Opus Dei), it won’t be for everyone, but it will enrich the Church’s life
- (I can dream, can’t I? ) At a later date, perhaps under the next Papacy, a document that clarifies and explains the legitimate areas where disagreement can occur on the issues raised above, something like Bp. Schneider’s idea of a “syllabus of errors” correcting, not Vatican II, but the “spirit of Vatican II” crowd as well as the sedevacantists, “Resistance” gang, etc.
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ARSpade
Guest
Eh, there’s plenty of groups, clergy, etc. inside the church that bring division and discord against long established church teachings. The SSPX can find common ground there with folks such as Call to Action and Catholics for Choice, and the folks that love divorce and such.
And isn’t common ground important?
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TCEL
Guest
I have zero experience with SSPX, but I agree with everything you are saying.
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johnnyc176
Guest
That is probably why Pope Francis wants the SSPX in full communion…they will be a strong voice against the liberals. That’s one reason. Another would be an admiration of their good Faith and Sacramental practice.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
SSPX will never find common ground with such groups.
Its because they couldn’t find common ground with the Magesterium which led them to set up their own group and spoke against Vatican II and a host of other things they didn’t like.
Jim
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
“Strong against liberals,” is the sort of wording that divides Catholics and his hurtful.
Pope Francis never used such language and his goal is certainly for the welfare of all souls, not just some Catholics.
Jim
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ARSpade
Guest
They already have common ground with those groups. It’s that they all oppose current church teaching and authority. Gotta start somewhere.
I’m all about bringing people together.
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