SSPX and Rome : Latest Hint At What Will Transcend Sept 14th

[NihilObstatINRI]

Then I suppose the two weeks begins. Maybe Bishop Fellay will make an initial statement via the SSPX website.

 

[jmj1984]

COMMUNIQUE CONCERNING THE SOCIETY OF ST. PIUS X

VATICAN CITY, 14 SEP 2011 (VIS) - At midday today the Holy See Press Office released the following communique concerning the postion of the Society of St. Pius X:

"On 14 September at the offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal William Joseph Levada, prefect of the congregation and president of the Pontifical Commission ‘Ecclesia Dei’; Archbishop Luis Francisco Ladaria Ferrer S.J., secretary of the congregation, and Msgr. Guido Pozzo, secretary of the pontifical commission, met with Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior general of the Society of St. Pius X, who was accompanied by Fr. Niklaus Pfluger and Fr. Alain-Marc Nely, respectively first and second assistant general to the society.

"Following the appeal of 15 December 2008, addressed by the superior general of the Society of St. Pius X to His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI, the Holy Father decided to remove the excommunication against the four bishops consecrated by Archbishop Lefebvre. At the same time, he approved the opening of discussions with the society in order to clarify doctrinal problems and to heal the existing rift.

"In order to put the Holy Father’s instructions into effect, a joint study commission was set up, composed of experts from the Society of St. Pius X and from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith who met in Rome on eight occasions between October 2009 and April 2011. Their discussions, which aimed to identify and study the essential doctrinal difficulties in the controversial issues, had the result of clarifying the positions of the two sides and their respective motivations.

"While bearing in mind the concerns and demands presented by the Society of St. Pius X about protecting the integrity of the Catholic faith against Vatican Council II’s ‘hermeneutic of rupture’ with Tradition (a theme addressed by Pope Benedict XVI in his address to the Roman Curia on 22 December 2005), the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith maintains that the fundamental basis for achieving full reconciliation with the Apostolic See is the acceptance of the text of the Doctrinal Preamble, which was handed over during a meeting on 14 September 2011. The Preamble defines certain doctrinal principles and criteria for the interpretation Catholic doctrine, which are necessary to ensure faithfulness to the Church Magisterium and ‘sentire cum Ecclesia’. At the same time, it leaves open to legitimate discussion the examination and theological explanation of individual expressions and formulations contained in the documents of Vatican Council II and later Magisterium.

“At the same meeting, certain suggestions were made for a canonical solution to the position of the Society of St. Pius X, with a view to achieving the desired reconciliation”.

OP/ VIS 20110914 (450)
visnews-en.blogspot.com/2011/09/communique-concerning-society-of-st.html

Thanks, at least we know the rumours are true now Aside from that we don’t learn anything new, maybe we’ll find out what the document actually says

 

[Cider]

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1103642.htm

The cardinal and bishop also discussed possible “elements of a canonical solution” for the society after “the eventual and hoped-for reconciliation,” said a statement issued by the Vatican after the meeting.

Father Lombardi said, "Today the most likely solution would be a personal prelature," which is a church jurisdiction without geographical boundaries designed to carry out particular pastoral initiatives. It is headed by a prelate, who is appointed by the pope; currently the church’s only personal prelature is Opus Dei.

 

[Corki]

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1103642.htm

The cardinal and bishop also discussed possible “elements of a canonical solution” for the society after “the eventual and hoped-for reconciliation,” said a statement issued by the Vatican after the meeting.

Father Lombardi said, "Today the most likely solution would be a personal prelature," which is a church jurisdiction without geographical boundaries designed to carry out particular pastoral initiatives. It is headed by a prelate, who is appointed by the pope; currently the church’s only personal prelature is Opus Dei.

For those of us less in the know about these things, how would this differ from the structure of the FSSP?

 

[ProVobis]

Thanks, at least we know the rumours are true now Aside from that we don’t learn anything new, maybe we’ll find out what the document actually says

It might not matter to most, but I make a note of these things and I understand this communique was translated from some French text. I wouldn’t be suprised if the official document presented to the SSPX were also in French.

 

[ProVobis]

For those of us less in the know about these things, how would this differ from the structure of the FSSP?

For one thing, there are four bishops (meaning, live Apostolic Succession) involved with the FSSPX, unlike the situation with Opus Dei and the FSSP. At least to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Cider]

For those of us less in the know about these things, how would this differ from the structure of the FSSP?

If the SSPX get a personal prelature they will not need the permission of the local Bishop to act in the diocese like the FSSP do.

 

[jmj1984]

It might not matter to most, but I make a note of these things and I understand this communique was translated from some French text. I wouldn’t be suprised if the official document presented to the SSPX were also in French.

I’ll google translate it

 

[Joe_5859]

It looks like with today’s meeting, the whole thing is really at a crossroads. The two page document given to SSPX is the fruit of the past 2+ years of dialogue. The SSPX leaders can either sign it or reject it. After that, there will be no more limbo. It will either be in or out.

I keep praying for reconciliation.

 

[At_Trent]

Supposedly a statement will be posted on DICI today, but right now the site is down or the server is slammed. (too busy)

 

[santodomingo]

In my opinion everything hinges on the “declaration” referred to in the press release. If the SSPX is asked to swallow every post-Vatican II innovation, obviously we know what Mgr. Fellay´s answer will be: a polite “no thanks and God bless you.”

If however, there is some phrase about “interpreting all of VII in the light of Tradition”, something that Mgr. Lefebvre himself was prepared to sign, there may be good hope of an agreement.

Let us pray!

 

[anrmenchaca47]

QUOTE=At Trent;8359039]Entire article here…
vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/homepage/world-news/detail/articolo/lefebvriani-la-fraternita-san-pio-x-fellay-lefebvrians-vaticano-vatican-7981/



come someone shed light on this? I read the articla and it has something to do the wtih Lefebvrians and the Fraternityof Saint Pius X and All that I gathered was that apparently, according to what Pope Benedict XVI said, there were issues and a “mini-schism” happening. What is going on with this. Please shed some light on this for me cuz this is new for me. Everyday I get on here, I learn something new Thanks folks!!!

Arnold

 

[YoungTradCath]

Check out what Father Z. has to say:

wdtprs.com/blog/2011/09/communique-of-the-holy-see-meeting-between-cdf-and-the-sspx/

 

[Joe_5859]

In my opinion everything hinges on the “declaration” referred to in the press release. If the SSPX is asked to swallow every post-Vatican II innovation, obviously we know what Mgr. Fellay´s answer will be: a polite “no thanks and God bless you.”

If however, there is some phrase about “interpreting all of VII in the light of Tradition”, something that Mgr. Lefebvre himself was prepared to sign, there may be good hope of an agreement.

Let us pray!

I would think they probably didn’t spend the last two years hammering these things out just to issue some ham-handed, iron-fisted declaration that Fellay would never sign. There may be a few items that are tough for him to swallow – or even a few things he’ll want to get further clarification on.

I would probably put my money on him asking for some further clarification on a few points unless the document really plays to SSPX’s favor (which I find hard to imagine). I would be surprised to see a swift acceptance or rejection.

 

[NihilObstatINRI]

I would think they probably didn’t spend the last two years hammering these things out just to issue some ham-handed, iron-fisted declaration that Fellay would never sign. There may be a few items that are tough for him to swallow – or even a few things he’ll want to get further clarification on.

I would probably put my money on him asking for some further clarification on a few points unless the document really plays to SSPX’s favor (which I find hard to imagine). I would be surprised to see a swift acceptance or rejection.

That is a very good point. They’ve been talking for two years, and Cardinal Levada and Bishop Fellay are going to know the issues better than anyone. Rome wants them reconciled, and at the end of the day Fellay does too (I won’t say the same necessarily about Williamson). If Rome wanted the SSPX simply to kowtow and reject completely their identity, then these talks wouldn’t have happened.
I think it’s quite likely that this document offered to Fellay is going to be very subtle and acceptable to both parties. At least, I truly hope and pray that this is the case.

 

[vsedriver]

submitting to authority is incredibly hard to do. I predict a small portion of the SSPX will return to obedience to the Pope but the rest will find some point to remain separate from Rome. It’s hard to give up independence once you’ve tasted it.

 

[NihilObstatINRI]

submitting to authority is incredibly hard to do. I predict a small portion of the SSPX will return to obedience to the Pope but the rest will find some point to remain separate from Rome. It’s hard to give up independence once you’ve tasted it.

I’m a bit more hopeful than this. I think most will be reconciled, and a minority (substantial, but still a minority) will split, maybe into formal schism.
The SSPX has always held up obedience to the Pope as necessary. Their actions haven’t always held this up in a spectacular way, but I think at the end of the day the majority of them do truly believe in submission to the Pope and the Church, and will take every opportunity to do so that they feel to be faithful to Tradition.
The problem with your post (and I say ‘problem’ not to attack you, simply to express my differing interpretation) is that it assumes that they have actually “tasted independence”. They do not consider themselves to be independent. While their canonical situation is abnormal and strained, they do consider themselves very much under the authority of the Bishop of Rome. They don’t feel (by and large) that sense of independence.

 

[ProVobis]

That is a very good point. They’ve been talking for two years, and Cardinal Levada and Bishop Fellay are going to know the issues better than anyone. Rome wants them reconciled, and at the end of the day Fellay does too (I won’t say the same necessarily about Williamson). If Rome wanted the SSPX simply to kowtow and reject completely their identity, then these talks wouldn’t have happened.
I think it’s quite likely that this document offered to Fellay is going to be very subtle and acceptable to both parties. At least, I truly hope and pray that this is the case.

My understanding is that it will not only affect the four bishops but also all the suspended priests and their benefactors as well. This will still be a long and difficult road for everyone who is attached to the SSPX Masses and sacraments.

 

[NihilObstatINRI]

My understanding is that it will not only affect the four bishops but also all the suspended priests and their benefactors as well. This will still be a long and difficult road for everyone who is attached to the SSPX Masses and sacraments.

Yes that is true, but ultimately the priests are supposed to be obedient to the bishops, so in theory the priests will go where the four bishops go. I don’t think in practice that it will work out ‘perfectly’, but the priests themselves are more of a non-issue. It’s the bishops who represent the Society as a whole.

 

[At_Trent]

QUOTE=At Trent;8359039]Entire article here…
vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/homepage/world-news/detail/articolo/lefebvriani-la-fraternita-san-pio-x-fellay-lefebvrians-vaticano-vatican-7981/



come someone shed light on this? I read the articla and it has something to do the wtih Lefebvrians and the Fraternityof Saint Pius X and All that I gathered was that apparently, according to what Pope Benedict XVI said, there were issues and a “mini-schism” happening. What is going on with this. Please shed some light on this for me cuz this is new for me. Everyday I get on here, I learn something new Thanks folks!!!

Arnold

In a nutshell

Archbishop Lefebvre consecrates 4 Bishops in 1988 against H.H. JPII’s wishes

All 5 are excommunicated but no formal schism declared

H.H. BXVI wants them back and the SSPX asks for 3 things

• free the Traditional Latin Mass of indult
• lift the excommunications
• open talks on Doctrinal issues

All three have been granted, and now an offer for reconciliation has been offered