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childofmary1143
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It’s not just an opinion, its heresy and scandalous. If he said that its okay to use Artificial Birth Control you wouldn’t be saying that.
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SSPX Bp. Williamson opposed to female “Doctors of the Church”: are his reasons good? [Fr. Z]
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BobP123
Guest
There is nothing doctrinal about female doctors so it’s not heretical. As for scandalous, anything the bishop would say would be in your opinion, no?It’s not just an opinion, its heresy and scandalous. If he said that its okay to use Artificial Birth Control you wouldn’t be saying that.
As for ABC, why are you trying to associate this bishop with this fictious position? If there’s any scandal here, it’s that type of comment.
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Walking_Home
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by childofmary1143
It’s not just an opinion, its heresy and scandalous. If he said that its okay to use Artificial Birth Control you wouldn’t be saying that.
There is nothing doctrinal about female doctors so it’s not heretical. As for scandalous, anything the bishop would say would be in your opinion, no?
As for ABC, why are you trying to associate this bishop with this fictious position? If there’s any scandal here, it’s that type of comment.
I agree----his opinion does not touch on “heresy”.
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catharina
Guest
He is an excommunicated priest/bishop who indicates his belief that his own opinion is far more graced and informed than that of “recent Popes” so that does indicate his preference for self rather than holy obedience and support of the facts (declared doctors of the Church are to be considered inspired teachers).
I agree----his opinion does not touch on “heresy”.
He said: “But by giving to women, even Saints, the title of “Doctor”, the modern Popes are giving way to such modern times, instead of resisting them.”
In essence he proclaims: “Listen to me, not to the Holy Father.”
Didn’t Henry VIII do that?
Isn’t Elizabeth II still ruling as the head of the church of England.
Listen to an excommunicated individual propose whatever and not object?
Through the grace of God, no thank you.
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Walking_Home
Guest
He is an excommunicated priest/bishop who indicates his belief that his own opinion is far more graced and informed than that of “recent Popes” so that does indicate his preference for self rather than holy obedience and support of the facts (declared doctors of the Church are to be considered inspired teachers).
He said: “But by giving to women, even Saints, the title of “Doctor”, the modern Popes are giving way to such modern times, instead of resisting them.”
In essence he proclaims: “Listen to me, not to the Holy Father.”
Didn’t Henry VIII do that?
Isn’t Elizabeth II still ruling as the head of the church of England.
Listen to an excommunicated individual propose whatever and not object?
Through the grace of God, no thank you.
It is an opinion—and no matter how you want to spin it --it is no more than that. I believe a woman can be a doctor, lawyer, etc—yet still—I can acknowledge his views as just his opinion–and not throw stones and call it heresy.
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childofmary1143
Guest
According to the Catechism Heresy is defined as following:There is nothing doctrinal about female doctors so it’s not heretical. As for scandalous, anything the bishop would say would be in your opinion, no?
Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same (2089)
Part of the truths of our Faith is that when the Holy Father makes a Solemn Declaration (which declaring a Saint to be a Doctor of the Church) it becomes part of the Doctrine.
So when Williamson comes along and idiotically says that he has a problem with Women Saints becoming Doctors of the Church he is deliberately contradicting what the Church says.
I bring it up as People here are giving him a free ride on his stupid comment.As for ABC, why are you trying to associate this bishop with this fictious position? If there’s any scandal here, it’s that type of comment.
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catharina
Guest
Perhaps my memory fails me, but I don’t recall calling this opinion of Williamson “heresy.” I do recall stating (a few times) my belief that I have nothing to learn from anyone is in an obvious state of excommunication.
It is an opinion—and no matter how you want to spin it --it is no more than that. I believe a woman can be a doctor, lawyer, etc—yet still—I can acknowledge his views as just his opinion–and not throw stones and call it heresy.
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catharina
Guest
The man gets no free ride from me to expound on his latest deviation from the truth as the Church declares truth.I bring it up as People here are giving him a free ride on his stupid comment.
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BobP123
Guest
You know what I think? I think it’s the growing influence that the SSPX has in Rome that has many of you perturbed. I can’t say I blame you. Scream and shout and accuse them of schism all you want but the local SSPX parish (of which I am personally not part of) certainly isn’t losing its members. And they have lots of kids. Maybe they know something a lot of SSPX bashers here don’t. Just my opinion, though.
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catharina
Guest
I have no concerns about any supposed sspx influence in Rome. If/when sspx rjects its own schismatic teachings, it will be welcomed back into the Church. Until then, it remains in schism; that’s not my opinion, that’s simply a fact.You know what I think? I think it’s the growing influence that the SSPX has in Rome that has many of you perturbed. I can’t say I blame you. Scream and shout and accuse them of schism all you want but the local SSPX parish (of which I am personally not part of) certainly isn’t losing its members. And they have lots of kids. Maybe they know something a lot of SSPX bashers here don’t. Just my opinion, though.
I do hope you don’t imagine I’ve been screaming or shouting (or wringing my hands?) or falsely accusing them of schism.
sspx is, in fact, in schism. That is a teaching of the RC Church.
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catharina
Guest
I’ll add that it saddens me that they are raising their children to accept lies. That should sadden everyone - IMO.
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BobP123
Guest
A lot of people had been deriding Vatican’s 1988 move toward making the TLM more available per SSPX demands as “stupid” too. Many of them no doubt saw eggs on their faces on July 7th.I bring it up as People here are giving him a free ride on his stupid comment.
As far as being free, I certainly wouldn’t want the derision and scolding the bishop has been taking all these years, would you?
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BobP123
Guest
Lies? Please provide some recent Vatican documents to show this.I’ll add that it saddens me that they are raising their children to accept lies.
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catharina
Guest
If you don’t know full well that the Vatican has proclaimed the sspx to be in schism, then I can’t convince you.Lies? Please provide some recent Vatican documents to show this.
Schism is given this ecclesiastical definition: “a formal division within, or separation from, a church or religious body over some doctrinal difference” meaning, in the case of sspx versus the RC Church, acceptance of a lie (or many lies) in preference to the truth provided by the RC Church. The very word defines the lie.
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catharina
Guest
When Williamson chose excommunication rather than faith, he chose “derision and scolding.” More importantly, he chose to be separated from our faith. Would I want his status? No.A lot of people had been deriding Vatican’s 1988 move toward making the TLM more available per SSPX demands as “stupid” too. Many of them no doubt saw eggs on their faces on July 7th.
As far as being free, I certainly wouldn’t want the derision and scolding the bishop has been taking all these years, would you?
Have I always loved the “Latin Mass” without reservation? Yes.
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Listener
Guest
This is totally nuts. Why would I be worried about what an SSPX Bishop thinks? The fact is, we have female doctors of the Church. If anyone disagrees, I guess they will just need to get over it, or leave and find a church that agrees with their narrow-minded opinions.
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latinmass
Guest
Allowing women to be Doctors in the Church is not a breaking of doctrine, or breaking an infallable teaching of the Pope. But, it does break tradition, just as allowing girl altar servers does. Practices such as this confuse the roles of women in the Church, thus confusing women in the Church, to the judgement of those who cross these lines and approve it. As I said before, we are all equal before God, but we do have different roles. Women do not have teaching authority over a man, as St. Paul wrote.Making a women a Doctor blurs this. We must form our concious on the teachings of the whole Catholic Church, not only on the theologions and modernists since Vatican 2. Can the Church make errors of judgement on issues that are not infallable? Of course. I choose to obey God rather than men. Obedience to someone who is disobedient, is disobedience. There is no pointing fingers on judgement day. Pray for discernment.
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catharina
Guest
I am a woman in the Church.Practices such as this confuse the roles of women in the Church, thus confusing women in the Church, to the judgement of those who cross these lines and approve it.
…
Can the Church make errors of judgement on issues that are not infallable? Of course. I choose to obey God rather than men. Obedience to someone who is disobedient, is disobedience. There is no pointing fingers on judgement day. Pray for discernment.
I am not confused.
Are you a woman in the Church?
Are you confused?
If you are, then you should reconsider your stance toward Rome since Jesus Christ Himself has promised that upon the rock of Peter He has built His Church and even the forces of hell shall not prevail against it. To allow oneself the delusion that one has enjoyed the grace and privilege and responsibility of the papacy - when one has NOT - is a practice that can put one’s soul in eternal and serious jeapordy. If you are a woman in the Church who is confused, I can only suggest that you pray for the grace to accept the teachings of the RC Church.
If you are a man … pray fervently to our Blessed Mother.
She is called the Seat of Wisdom, among other titles.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
And this is why I’m was sadden by Pope Benedict’s attempt to compromise with the SSPX by allowing the TLM to be used, which is was really about.
SSPX is an extremist group that doesn’t recognize the Papacy since Pius X. Why would a duly elected Pope, attempt to compromise with them?
Jim
SSPX is an extremist group that doesn’t recognize the Papacy since Pius X. Why would a duly elected Pope, attempt to compromise with them?
Jim
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catharina
Guest
I see no compromise. I welcome the return of the Latin Mass and am fully devoted to the NO Mass. Why not both? It was coming whether sspx wanted it or not. Many of us in the RC Church are quite familiar with the Latin Mass. We’re called Older People.And this is why I’m was sadden by Pope Benedict’s attempt to compromise with the SSPX by allowing the TLM to be used, which is was really about.
SSPX is an extremist group that doesn’t recognize the Papacy since Pius X. Why would a duly elected Pope, attempt to compromise with them?
Jim
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