SSPX impact on one soul

[LanceMacIsaac]

I find myself truly lost. I am sending this as a sort of spiritual flare.
The spiritual crisis: am I a Catholic? Do I want to be a Catholic?

Without boring those whom are kind enough to I shall outline a very truncated background.
I enter into the Church through RCIA.
Examined the possibility of a vocation of priesthood.
Earnestly studied my faith and was challenged by non Catholics, whom I offered a poor defence of the faith.
In developing an informed defence discovered SSPX.
Rejected it out of hand.
Then I began to read and reflect, and I became lost.
They in fact reflected and articulated the very values that I held so close.
I see “lies” within the Church, and huge disappointments.
I went to my parish priest seeking aid out of this dark forest. He sent me to a parishioner. She shrugged her shoulders confused, and sent me back to him.
This has been a 12 year struggle.

I come here hoping to find someone or a group kind enough to help guide a soul back safely into the Church.

My first question is; has the Church gone off the rails since Vatican II?

 

[Zekariya]

If this is about Vatican II… Vatican II was a pastoral council and made no infallible pronouncements. Pope Paul VI (of Vatican II) said the Vatican II did not teach “with a note of infalliblity”.

The Church has had it’s ups and downs over the course of history. This shouldn’t be a reason to lose faith. Stay for the ride and reach for heaven.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

There is nothing you will find outside the church that you cannot find in it. The struggle you are facing is an opportunity for spiritual growth and development. While often Catholics speak only of the relationship to the church and Protestants speak only of a (personal) relationship with Christ, we need both. You have the relationship with the church, you are now being called to develop a deeper personal relationship within the confines of the church. Reading some of the Christian mystics can help with this as can the church fathers, A Kempis and Chesterton.

 

[Lormar]

Lance, why did your priest send you to a layperson instead of helping you himself?

 

[JRKH]

My first question is; has the Church gone off the rails since Vatican II?

NO

But it has been a bumpy ride.

Next question…

Sorry - don’t mean to be flip. The Church has indeed been struggling but she is still “on track” and she is in need of good devout people to help her stay that way.
So - my advice is to stay and help…

Now - seriously - what is troubling you…

Peace
James

 

[latingirl]

My first question is; has the Church gone off the rails since Vatican II?

Yes but not because of Vatican II, because wicked people twisted it’s interpretation into something it was never intended to be.

 

[mountee]

Sorry about your struggles but I bet you emerge stronger in the faith when you get to the end of this. Obviously you are in need of someone to talk this over with who is educated about the Church and properly catechized. If your priest sends you to someone who didn’t help, don’t give up try again somewhere else. Hopefully, some of the people on this forum who fall into the category of well educated in the Church and property catechized will see your thread and be able to help. But, if not, go back to your priest and ask for more help. God bless you.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

I
I come here hoping to find someone or a group kind enough to help guide a soul back safely into the Church.

My first question is; has the Church gone off the rails since Vatican II?

Here is a post which may address all your concerns. LINK

 

[Lormar]

Here is a post which may address all your concerns. LINK

The day you posted that I was still struggling and ready to throw in the towel and go back to my sede chapel. You will never know the impact that had on me. I still have it saved on my desktop.

I think I wrote you a PM thanking you for posting it. If I didn’t, let me say thank you now.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Isn’t it interesting how many converts are attracted to traditionalism (small t) and the SSPX!

It happened to me, and I’ve seen it often in these boards.

For myself the Roman Catholicism of history was one of the strong appeals which drew me into the Church. It certainly wasn’t the only appeal, or I would have left through a revolving door! When I found myself in the Church as it is, instead of how I imagined it to be, I was somewhat disappointed and frustrated. My zeal and orthodoxy and liturgical sense seemed to dissipate in the morass of everyday Catholic life. The liturgy and music of most parishes was a major disappointment.

Every Catholic convert I have read or heard of seems to report some similar experiences, in one way or another. If it is not disappointment with the loss of tradition, it’s disappointment with the lack of community compared with their Protestant background.

Getting to the how my trajectory nearly matched yours…

One thing that disappointed me was that I never made a single friend in the Catholic Church. I never had a workmate who was Catholic. Then, in 1998, I started working with a young man who was brilliant at his job, lots of fun to be around, and… ta da!!! was a practicing, enthusiastic Catholic! Oh, joy! Soon after I met him he mentioned that he was becoming interested in the the Society of St Pius X. I didn’t know much, but mentioned “Aren’t they excommunicated?”. He assured me they weren’t. Jumping forward a year now, he had joined SSPX and was trying to recruit me. He gave me their literature, starting with “Quo Primum” and “A letter to confused Catholics”. I swallowed it up! At last, here was the Catholic Church I had joined! I started thinking about taking my kids out of ho-hum parish school, and putting them into an SSPX school.

While I was being drawn emotionally to SSPX there was something always troubling me. I couldn’t shake it off. Eventually I decided to simply accept the Church’s decision on them. End of story. No further discussion. I started becoming more involved in my own parish, with a new found appreciation of the importance of unity, obedience to one’s Bishop, and of sanctifying myself through the Church as it is, rather than how I wish it to be.

In short, I have never had any serious regrets about becoming a Catholic. The closest I came was my encounter with SSPX, and that, in the end, only made me appreciate my Faith more fully.

My encounter with SSPX also helped me to appreciate the fruits of Vatican II - which is an ongoing discovery. I once perceived some disconnect between VII and tradition, but not any more.

I am sorry, just so sorry, that your trusting and sincere attempt to reconcile with your parish was not better handled. I hope that you find a better response here, and in any other moves you make.

~ Edmundus

 

[po18guy]

Doubt and confusion are of the evil one. He lives to divide. Through planting the seeds of willful disobedience and the casting of doubts, he has successfully divided the Church on numerous occasions. I see this as a direct spiritual attack upon your faith. The problem is in the spiritual realm and so the solution lies in the spiritual realm. There many things that you can do, but one huge thing:

Get on your knees before the Blessed Sacrament.

 

[Lormar]

**Doubt and confusion are of the evil one. **He lives to divide. Through planting the seeds of willful disobedience and the casting of doubts, he has successfully divided the Church on numerous occasions. I see this as a direct spiritual attack upon your faith. The problem is in the spiritual realm and so the solution lies in the spiritual realm. There many things that you can do, but one huge thing:

Get on your knees before the Blessed Sacrament.

 

[robert7685]

The Church is indefectible. It has not gone off the rails. Churchmen, on the other hand, have gone off the rails, at all levels. What may be good is to find a TLM location (doesn’t have to necessarily be SSPX. I personally have never had any problems with the FSSP. If they are the best for your situation, then by all means, go). Typically, those churches will have what you’re looking for.

Here are some good websites:
www.fssp.com (FSSP North American site)
www.fssp.org (international)

There are resources to find diocesan TLMs as well.

 

[otjm]

I find myself truly lost. I am sending this as a sort of spiritual flare.
The spiritual crisis: am I a Catholic? Do I want to be a Catholic?

Without boring those whom are kind enough to I shall outline a very truncated background.
I enter into the Church through RCIA.
Examined the possibility of a vocation of priesthood.
Earnestly studied my faith and was challenged by non Catholics, whom I offered a poor defence of the faith.
In developing an informed defence discovered SSPX.
Rejected it out of hand.
Then I began to read and reflect, and I became lost.
They in fact reflected and articulated the very values that I held so close.
I see “lies” within the Church, and huge disappointments.
I went to my parish priest seeking aid out of this dark forest. He sent me to a parishioner. She shrugged her shoulders confused, and sent me back to him.
This has been a 12 year struggle.

I come here hoping to find someone or a group kind enough to help guide a soul back safely into the Church.

My first question is; has the Church gone off the rails since Vatican II?

No, the Church has not gone off the rails. A large number of Catholics have gone off the rails, and that includes both ends of the spectrum - both liberals and conservatives. It also includes some theologians, and some priests, a few bishops, and a few cardinals possibly.

And within the Church, there are a number of people who are confused, including some priests and bishops. Not necessarily off the rails, but pretty much seeming to not have a lot of clues about what it means to follow Christ.

 

[otjm]

I find myself truly lost. I am sending this as a sort of spiritual flare.
The spiritual crisis: am I a Catholic? Do I want to be a Catholic?

Without boring those whom are kind enough to I shall outline a very truncated background.
I enter into the Church through RCIA.
Examined the possibility of a vocation of priesthood.
Earnestly studied my faith and was challenged by non Catholics, whom I offered a poor defence of the faith.
In developing an informed defence discovered SSPX.
Rejected it out of hand.
Then I began to read and reflect, and I became lost.
They in fact reflected and articulated the very values that I held so close.
I see “lies” within the Church, and huge disappointments.
I went to my parish priest seeking aid out of this dark forest. He sent me to a parishioner. She shrugged her shoulders confused, and sent me back to him.
This has been a 12 year struggle.

I come here hoping to find someone or a group kind enough to help guide a soul back safely into the Church.

My first question is; has the Church gone off the rails since Vatican II?

I would suggest looking at two other threads; one is “SSPX Crisis”; in it there are several people who have been involved with SSPX and have returned to the Church, and their comments may be helpful; in adddition they may be willing to work with you outside the forum.

The second one I would suggest is to read what Bro. JR has written in “Poll: Vatican 2”. Both John Pajul 2 and Benedict 16 have said that the documents of Vatican 2 have to be read in continuity with all of Church history and prior documents. Bro, JR explains that the Vatican 2 documents are not written in doctrinal language but rather in the language of spirituality - which is in line with St Bonaventure and St. Augustine (and others). It may help to understand how the Church can take such a stance when the SSPX try to argue doctrinal statements. Vatican 2 was not attempting to make doctrinal statements, and made no statements that are contrary to any doctrine of the last 2000 years.

 

[LanceMacIsaac]

Thank you for such an over whelming response. It has taken me some time to work through the resonses. And in truth I am still reading some links that have been suggested.
PLus I work 12h shift work, and have been working during this small period.

Please understand what I am about to write is not trying to be argumenative, rather a soul struggling with the very shackles that he has placed on himself.

I do believe that the Vatican II council (V2) is valid. Reading the documents I see nothing of overt concern. Many of them have a very open and loving language. I believe that the documents themselves are legal.
I must preface that I have no education to back up these statements. Truely I am a simple layman. My education runs in a very different direction.

Its what I have seen since the council.
IN my parish, the sacrement on reconcilliation is no longer offered. The confessionals have been removed and where they remain (in some churchs) they have been converted to closets.
Alters have been removed, broken in the parking lots, then burned behind the church.
Many of the statues have been removed.

I have to send this one off as is.
But I shall add to this, as this is left unbalanced for not all is so bleak.

Please be patient with a troubed soul.
I look forward to any and all feed back.
Lance

 

[thunderboom]

Thank you for such an over whelming response. It has taken me some time to work through the resonses. And in truth I am still reading some links that have been suggested.
PLus I work 12h shift work, and have been working during this small period.

Please understand what I am about to write is not trying to be argumenative, rather a soul struggling with the very shackles that he has placed on himself.

I do believe that the Vatican II council (V2) is valid. Reading the documents I see nothing of overt concern. Many of them have a very open and loving language. I believe that the documents themselves are legal.
I must preface that I have no education to back up these statements. Truely I am a simple layman. My education runs in a very different direction.

Its what I have seen since the council.
IN my parish, the sacrement on reconcilliation is no longer offered. The confessionals have been removed and where they remain (in some churchs) they have been converted to closets.
Alters have been removed, broken in the parking lots, then burned behind the church.
Many of the statues have been removed.

I have to send this one off as is.
But I shall add to this, as this is left unbalanced for not all is so bleak.

Please be patient with a troubed soul.
I look forward to any and all feed back.
Lance

First, you could always find a new parish. This doesn’t sound Catholic: it sounds like the worst excesses of sixteenth-century Reformation Europe. Ditch that lot, with all possible haste. Find a faithful, reverent, Catholic parish. Oh, and report it to the bishop. He needs to know about this.

So, some people twisted the teachings of the Council, or used the idea of a “council” to introduce things into the Church which are heretical or, at the very least, not in continuity with tradition. That doesn’t mean you should leave the Church! Rather, you seem to be one of the faithful remnant. Stay, please, and help bring sanity back! Work for the true faith, not the heretical mumbo-jumbo!

 

[JRKH]

Thank you for such an over whelming response. It has taken me some time to work through the resonses. And in truth I am still reading some links that have been suggested.
PLus I work 12h shift work, and have been working during this small period.

Please understand what I am about to write is not trying to be argumentative, rather a soul struggling with the very shackles that he has placed on himself.

Happy we have been able to helps some.
We all struggle the the various aspects of our journey…So please be patient with yourself…
(and make sure you get enough sleep…I remember the 12 hour days…)

I do believe that the Vatican II council (V2) is valid. Reading the documents I see nothing of overt concern. Many of them have a very open and loving language. I believe that the documents themselves are legal.
I must preface that I have no education to back up these statements. Truely I am a simple layman. My education runs in a very different direction.

This is a great place to start. You have read the documents and know what they say…This makes it easier to separate what is truly “of the council” and what is not.

Its what I have seen since the council.
In my parish, the sacrament on reconciliation is no longer offered. The confessionals have been removed and where they remain (in some churches) they have been converted to closets.
Alters have been removed, broken in the parking lots, then burned behind the church.
Many of the statues have been removed.

I cannot believe that the Sacrament is “no longer offered”…does this mean that if you were to call your parish, that the priest would refuse to hear your confession?
That said - I agree that there has been a tragic decline in the usage of, and the scheduled times of confession. In my parish it is only about 40 minutes on Saturday afternoon right before the vigil mass.
As to alters being removed and burned…Where I live that would not be an option since none of the altars are almost never made of wood . That said, there are procedures for disposing of such items and in the case of an altar, burning sounds entirely appropriate after it has been properly “de-consecrated” (right word?)
Statues being removed - Shocking to some, but they are only statues. Our reaction to their being removed is an opportunity to reflect on how much importance we place in the “statue” as opposed to that which the statue is said to represent. I troubles me when some people get all “up in arms” over such things.

Now - don’t get me wrong. I Love old Churches, beautiful statues and stained glass etc. I love the EF mass as well. It saddens me when I see some of the abuses that have occurred and it even saddens me to see some of the changes that are legitimate (like fewer statues).

But I also love the OF mass as promulgated by Pope Paul VI of blessed memory. The great shifts and efforts at outreach and making the Church more evangelical in the world…

It’s been a bumpy ride since 1965 but there is much to be thankful for and now - almost 50 years later - there is great opportunity for reflection and adjustment. keeping that which has proven to be good and jettisoning that which has proven bad. Of course this will likely take another 50 years or more…

The most important thing is that those, like yourself, who seek to draw the Church into greater reverence, not “jump ship” but hang in there exercising that patient, holy, subtle, yet powerful influence of piety and reverence that demonstrates the truly humble life.

God Bless you

Peace
James

 

[Mrs_Sally]

My first question is; has the Church gone off the rails since Vatican II?

Yes but not because of Vatican II, because wicked people twisted it’s interpretation into something it was never intended to be.

No, the Church herself cannot be derailed or headed in the wrong direction. There will always be wicked people with their own agenda and a goal to confuse other people, but that does not mean that the Church is wrong.

We need to cling even more to Peter in troubling times. Going to groups outside the Church (whether the SSPX or others) will not lead us on the path to heaven that is protected by the Holy Spirit. Only the Church - lead by Peter - can do that.

 

[thunderboom]

Statues being removed - Shocking to some, but they are only statues. Our reaction to their being removed is an opportunity to reflect on how much importance we place in the “statue” as opposed to that which the statue is said to represent. I troubles me when some people get all “up in arms” over such things.

I get what you’re saying. But… 1) I’m an art history major , and 2) iconoclasm is a heresy officially condemned by the Church, at the Second Council of Nicaea in 787. Despoiling statues is a heresy, so I think there’s something justifiable in “getting all up in arms” about it.