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pnewton
Guest
I often think the same thing, but then I remember I even speculate on the outcome of football. I guess we all have a little gray matter to waste. I just hope no one takes the speculation too seriously.
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JReducation
Guest
Unfortunately, some people in the SSPX do not speak kindly of them or any of the communities that have been reconciled with the Holy See. Even in the video that AT Trent posted, the priest speaks mournfully about the 13 communities who broke off and reconciled with the “Conciliar Church”. He starts his comment with the FSSP.Brother Jay, glad to see you stop by.
I can hear the pain in his letter.
This certainly has to hurt these guys, because they are trying very hard to do what is right. They’re taking more of a beating from the Traditionalist camp than any other side. Most people have no idea who Sons of the Holy Redeemer are and have no ax to grind with them. It’s like the Institute Christ the King and the others, they continue to function and Traditionalists attend their masses, catechesis, etc and mainstream Catholics do not bother them.
The SSPX is not in the same position. The lay faithful who are aligned to the SSPX have done them a great deal of harm. These folks carry tales, make comparisons, make statements aboiut the OF of the mass as being less holy or less efficacious, have made statements about bishops, parishes and pastors, Vatican II and even questioned whether John Paul should be beatified. When bishops and pastors ask where this is coming from, the answer is “My priest or Bishop X said so.” It turns out that it’s an SSPX priest or bishop.
I have found that these reporters often misquote these folks or attribute what one member of the SSPX says to the entire SSPX. The SSPX clergy have also made a very unusual mistake. I say unusual, because most religious and secular institutes do not share these things with the faithful. They speak to the laity about their feelings toward the Vatican and the mainstream Church or about this of that encounter with the Church leadership.
Sometimes, prudence dictates that you keep those things to yourself. You never know how it translates to the person who is not there or who does not expect to hear that there are debates between clergy or bishops. To us who are in this environment 24/7, that’s no big deal. This has been the case in the Church since Peter and Paul. We know that this too shall pass. To many people, this is either shocking or frightening.
The Sons of the Holy Redeemer have said very little about their dialogue with Rome, as have the other Ecclesia Dei communities. That’s in their favor. They are not branded as radicals. They are looked at as simply being Traditionalists who had some problem with Rome and apparently resolved it. People look at it once and don’t think about it again. But if you’re constantly being quoted, rightly or wrongly, you acquire a reputation and that’s unfortunately.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Brother JR, I always love you you charitably approach every situation. But I’m afraid that the SSPX do in fact do their part in giving themselves a bad reputation. Whether this is a concerted effort with their leadership or not, I do not know. Last weekend the Archdiocese of Davao in the Philippines held a Latin Mass seminar for the lay faithful. I’m sure every traditionalist here would jump for joy if such a thing happens in their diocese. Then two priests from the local SSPX chapel showed up to distribute pamphlets on why the OF is invalid and all the errors of the post-Vatican II Church. So I would say that the laity isn’t misrepresenting the clergy if the clergy themselves do such a thing. You would think they should have been happy that the Archdiocese has done something to promote the Latin Mass. It seems that wasn’t enough.
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At_Trent
Guest
Here comes the mud slinging on another thread that pertains to the reconciliation of the SSPX.
Another thread derailed, just as the other one was. And both OT posts were from non- Roman Catholics. Imagine that.
:clapping:
Another thread derailed, just as the other one was. And both OT posts were from non- Roman Catholics. Imagine that.
:clapping:
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ConstantineTG
Guest
So you want us to pretend that everything was rosy when things like this are the reality? You know, I can go into the PSSJ which is the Eastern version of the SSPX (and they are directly related, not just a copy cat) but I know you guys will just say, “this is not the Eastern Forum…”.
And I don’t know why you dismiss actual events as merely mudslinging. The situation between the SSPX and the Archdiocese of Davao is actually very heated at this moment with public scathing remarks are being thrown at each other. Charity has not only taken a back seat, it has left the planet on this one.
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At_Trent
Guest
Go start a thread and quit derailing this one then.
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ProVobis
Guest
Yes but all this really says is that things aren’t going to end well for everyone. We knew that already.
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JReducation
Guest
That was not a good idea. Were I their superior, they would be getting a good tongue lashing right about now.
If it happened, it happened. But I know for a fact that this has never been the formal position of the SSPX. As much as they do not like the Ordinary Form, they have never made any formal statement that it is not valid and to the best of my knowledge, they they do not promote disruptive behavior.
If these individuals engaged in such behaviors, it’s their issue, not the issue of the whole Society.
This, I find easy to deal with, because Franciscans have had our own loose canons. Every year we dismiss a few. There is an entire community of former Capuchin Franciscans in France that has been dismissed and has excommunicated itself for disobeying Francis.
No one in their right mind attributes their defiant behavior to the entire Capuchin Franciscan Order. Everyone who knows them, knows that the Capuchin Franciscan Friars are the most submissive men in the world. If the superior tells them to stand on their head, they do so. If the pope tells them to celebrate mass in Chinese, they do so, even if they have to spend 6 months learning the language.
Therefore, I apply the same rule of discretion to these two priests. This kind of behavior is inappropriate, but it’s not the norm for the SSPX. The unfortunate part is that the lay faithful who are attached to them may believe that this is right. That’s when bishops respond with a knee-jerk reaction, especially if this is a bishop who is trying to meet the needs of the Traditionalist population in his diocese.
This is an example of people sabotaging their own cause. If they feel this way and if there is a full reconciliation, men like this will probably go their own, as has happened with other Traditionalists community. This kind of person makes it very hard to have a dialog, even with their own confreres. This happened with the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer. Fortunately, members of congregations do not get excommunicated for disobeying their superior, only members of religious orders have that “privilege”.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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NewsTheMan
Guest
All this talk of the FSsR :extrahappy: :egyptian:
Sorry if I derailed.
/back on topic.
Sorry if I derailed.
/back on topic.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
It is a sad fact indeed. But it seems some here are in denial of this
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
If Rome will give them another couple of years. Rome has given them a document for reunion I think if it is rejected that Rome may move to declare that the SSPX totally outside of the Church.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
It depends.
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Warrenton
Guest
This is kind thing to say, and we all do well to remember it. I was “trad” before trad was cool, to lift a thought from Barbara Mandrell.
Many of the priests and brothers I knew disagreed strongly with my sentiments, and they would not budge. But they were kind men, certainly they were kind to me and tried their best. I believe that they believed they were doing the right thing.
We can hurt each other’s feelings inadvertently, and our own enthusiasm can blind us to our neighbor’s needs, especially if he or she has a different outlook from our own.
But if we can say mass in Mongolia, we can say it in Latin. It’s a big church, and I am sure it can hold the SSPX, too.
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At_Trent
Guest
Not off topic at all. They were affiliated with the SSPX and have reconciled. Discussion of such is relevantAll this talk of the FSsR :extrahappy: :egyptian:
Sorry if I derailed.
/back on topic.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
While I understand what you are saying this does appear to be a view of many in the SSPX as stated, they had actual pamphlets to hand out, that speaks of some sort of organization.
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JReducation
Guest
Then, whoever organized it should be called on the carpet. You don’t go over to an event to which you’re not invited and do such things. If two or twenty of my brothers did something like this, there would be hell to pay. And if anyone had complained, I would be terribly embarrassed. You would not be seeing the outside of the friary for a long time.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
True, which lends to the idea that there is approval, at least tacit approval, from their superiors in this.Then, whoever organized it should be called on the carpet. You don’t go over to an event to which you’re not invited and do such things. If two or twenty of my brothers did something like this, there would be hell to pay. And if anyone had complained, I would be terribly embarrassed. You would not be seeing the outside of the friary for a long time.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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