SSPX Mass ok?

[sal2]

I’ve taken a liking to the Traditional Latin Mass (1962 missal) and I attend (alone or with my oldest son) once a month. When I do, my wife and other children go without me to the normal Mass (post Vatican II missal) at the local parish at a later time. The Traditional Latin Mass is held with the approval of my archdiocese and is 1 hour away. The other Sundays we all attend together at the local parish. I came across an SSPX Mass that is only 1/2 hour away, if that. It is very early in the morning, which means I could easily attend it alone and then go with my family all together to the Mass at the local parish. I plan on receiving Communion only once at the local parish Mass if I were to do this. Are there any problems with this plan?

 

[cameron_lansing]

sal2:

I’ve taken a liking to the Traditional Latin Mass (1962 missal) and I attend (alone or with my oldest son) once a month. When I do, my wife and other children go without me to the normal Mass (post Vatican II missal) at the local parish at a later time. The Traditional Latin Mass is held with the approval of my archdiocese and is 1 hour away. The other Sundays we all attend together at the local parish. I came across an SSPX Mass that is only 1/2 hour away, if that. It is very early in the morning, which means I could easily attend it alone and then go with my family all together to the Mass at the local parish. I plan on receiving Communion only once at the local parish Mass if I were to do this. Are there any problems with this plan?

The Holy Eucharist, in addition to being the sacrament of our union with Christ and His Sacrifice, etc., is also intimately tied to our communion with the Church. This is a long established point of Catholic doctrine. It is a sign of our fundamental unity in the Church which Christ established.

That communion is present whether the Traditional Latin Mass, as approved for current use by the Holy See, or the Roman Missal following the Second Vatican Council, as approved by the Holy See, is celebrated.

The Society of Saint Pius X is not in communion with the Catholic Church: the college of bishops throughout the world in union with the Supreme Pontiff, its head, and the Christian faithful in union with them. It is understood to be in formal schism, refusing obedience to lawful governance in the Church, particularly that of its supreme authority, the Pope.

What do you intend to say to us and others by your presence at its ceremonies, even though not receiving? What do you think your presence may say to us and others, even though you may not intend it?

 

[kmktexas]

In my opinion, to go to an SSPX Mass for what amounts to convenience when a good indult TLM Mass is available could be giving scandal. It would give the impression that you support the group which is (at best) disobedient and not in full communion with Rome. Many if not most of the SSPX do not consider the NO Masses valid. The parishioners there would not see your attendance at the NO as appropriate either. So you would be stuck in the middle.

If you were clear to anyone that asked that your attendance at the SSPX Mass was for the “experience” only and that you were fulfilling your Sunday obligation at the NO Mass (or at the indult), you could mitigate the impression.

 

[Freeway4321]

I know of someone who attendes an Orthodox Liturgy then goes to an N.O. to recieve communion. Not unheard of, and isn’t a bad idea… as long as you are not receiving Holy Eucharist at the SSPX chapel.

 

[palmas85]

I’ve been in the position where an Indult Mass was available on Sundays, and a SSPX Mass avaliable daily as well as on Sundays. I actually agonized over the decison, but finally decided that in good conscience I could not attend the SSPX Masses.

I’m sure that they have their heart in the right place, but their position towards the church to me is unacceptable.

 

[Ham1]

I can’t really see why you would want to witness a SSPX priest committing an egregious mortal sin by “celebrating” mass. Maybe if faithful Catholics would stop attending their sinful masses, they might realize that they really don’t have as many supporters as they thought.

 

[bear06]

Please search the forums on “SSPX”. There is so much written on this subject it would be impossible to do it in less than 10 posts. I’m also sure you’ve read Ecclesia Dei but here it is in case you have not:

newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02ed.htm

 

[Chalice]

Freeway4321:

I know of someone who attendes an Orthodox Liturgy then goes to an N.O. to recieve communion. Not unheard of, and isn’t a bad idea… as long as you are not receiving Holy Eucharist at the SSPX chapel.

Let’s see, as Catholics we are required to attend the Mass/Eastern Liturgy weekly. We are also required to receive Communion at least once a year.

Given that, it would make no sense to attend an SSPX or Eastern/Oriental Orthodox service and then slip-into a Mass to receive Communion.

If one were going to attend the entire Mass, then it makes no sense to attend the SSPX or Eastern/Oriental Orthodox service.

It does indeed seem like a bad idea.

 

[Freeway4321]

Chalice:

Let’s see, as Catholics we are required to attend the Mass/Eastern Liturgy weekly. We are also required to receive Communion at least once a year.

Given that, it would make no sense to attend an SSPX or Eastern/Oriental Orthodox service and then slip-into a Mass to receive Communion.

If one were going to attend the entire Mass, then it makes no sense to attend the SSPX or Eastern/Oriental Orthodox service.

It does indeed seem like a bad idea.

It makes sense. Ready?

It’s as simple as enjoying the liturgy, and not receiving communion.

I know Pope John Paul II celebrated liturgy of the word with an Eastern Orthodox Patriarch. Although not the same as a full blown liturgy, it’s the same as going to a liturgy and not receiving Holy Eucharist.

 

[emsvetich]

I beg to disagree, it makes no sense to attend an SSPX service.

Quoting from John Paul II in Ecclesia Dei,"

" 5. Faced with the situation that has arisen, I deem it my duty to inform all the Catholic faithful of some aspects which this sad event has highlighted.

a) The outcome of the movement promoted by Archbishop Lefebvre can and must be, for all the Catholic faithful, a motive for sincere reflection concerning their own fidelity to the Church’s tradition, authentically interpreted by the ecclesiastical magisterium, ordinary and extraordinary, especially in the ecumenical councils from Nicaea to Vatican II. From this reflection all should draw a renewed and efficacious conviction of the necessity of strengthening still more their fidelity by rejecting erroneous interpretations and arbitrary and unauthorized applications in matters of doctrine, liturgy and discipline."

I would not attend lest you give the appearance that you accept their “interpretations and arbitrary…applications in matters of…liturgy…” How could you enjoy something that has resulted in schism?

 

[Verbum]

All,

This matter is regulated by canon law:

Can. 843 §1 Sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them.

§2 According to their respective offices in the Church, both pastors of souls and all other members of Christ’s faithful have a duty to ensure that those who ask for the sacraments are prepared for their reception. This should be done through proper evangelisation and catechetical instruction, in accordance with the norms laid down by the competent authority.

Can. 844 §1 Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments only to catholic members of Christ’s faithful, **who equally may lawfully receive them only from catholic ministers, **except as provided in §§2, 3 and 4 of this canon and in can. 861 §2.

§2 Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage commends it, and provided the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, Christ’s faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a catholic minister, may lawfully receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick from non-catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.

Canon 861 refers to baptism.

Verbum

 

[bear06]

It’s a very dangerous thing to be attracted to the illicit. People like to sometimes pose the question of what you would do if you were only faced with 2 illicit mass - one that is flagrantly liberal and one that is a Tridentine (unapproved, of course)? I gave that one a lot of thought even though I’m not in that situation. I’d be far more attracted to the SSPX Mass than the local “cowboy” Mass. It suddenly dawned on me that the last thing I would need is to go to something that’s illicit that is attractive to me. I want to be repulsed by the illicit. I’d stick with the Tridentine and hour away. It could just be considered a nice Sunday drive.

 

[Freeway4321]

I agree that we should not promote schism, or be overly attracted to things; schism.

But if one is reduced to a parish with a mass that is lacking and can’t seem to find an alternative within the realm of the Catholic church, I think it makes sense to go to a mass that offers a true and beautiful liturgy.

One can easily lose there faith by going to the same abused liturgy. Trust me… i’ve seen and have been on the edge myself. I would rather someone attend said masses than loose all faith in the church, and even the good Lord.

If you see yourself running closer towards falling into some of the extreme views expressed by groups like SSPX, I would suggest the following…

Cease and Desist.

 

[bear06]

Freeway4321:

I agree that we should not promote schism, or be overly attracted to things; schism.

But if one is reduced to a parish with a mass that is lacking and can’t seem to find an alternative within the realm of the Catholic church, I think it makes sense to go to a mass that offers a true and beautiful liturgy.

One can easily lose there faith by going to the same abused liturgy. Trust me… i’ve seen and have been on the edge myself. I would rather someone attend said masses than loose all faith in the church, and even the good Lord.

If you see yourself running closer towards falling into some of the extreme views expressed by groups like SSPX, I would suggest the following…

Cease and Desist.

The problem is, if you’re attracted to it than you can get sucked in quite more easily. We can fall no matter where we go to Mass but at least if we are repulsed by the illicit then the chance is less.

 

[Freeway4321]

bear06:

The problem is, if you’re attracted to it than you can get sucked in quite more easily. We can fall no matter where we go to Mass but at least if we are repulsed by the illicit then the chance is less.

Well, this depends on what exactly you are attracted to.

I’m attracted to the way Orthodox and the SSPX celebrate mass, as well as quite a few other things.

I think it has more to do with your spiritual maturity, and the faith in the church you claim.

 

[Chalice]

Freeway4321:

I agree that we should not promote schism, or be overly attracted to things; schism.

But if one is reduced to a parish with a mass that is lacking and can’t seem to find an alternative within the realm of the Catholic church, I think it makes sense to go **to a mass that offers a true and beautiful liturgy. **

One can easily lose there faith by going to the same abused liturgy. Trust me… i’ve seen and have been on the edge myself. I would rather someone attend said masses than loose all faith in the church, and even the good Lord.

If you see yourself running closer towards falling into some of the extreme views expressed by groups like SSPX, I would suggest the following…

Cease and Desist.

You are suggesting that one not attend a licit/valid Mass because it is “lacking” in your estimation, and that instead they should attend a service at a non-Catholic parish? Are you serious?

This is harshly twisted thinking. To be blunt, it shows why “traditionalists” are often viewed as whack-jobs, not only by the “progressives” but by those who make up the great majority of the Church.

The greatest enemy of the “traditonalist movement” is definately from within. Until that changes, people like yourself will always be at the extreme fringe of the Church, unfortunately pulling others down with you.

 

[bear06]

Freeway4321:

Well, this depends on what exactly you are attracted to.

I’m attracted to the way Orthodox and the SSPX celebrate mass, as well as quite a few other things.

I think it has more to do with your spiritual maturity, and the faith in the church you claim.

Actually, I think it has more to do with intellectual honesty. All that glitters is not gold. One should be looking at where they’re going to get sucked in not where they are going to find the most beautiful. I, myself, would probably get sucked in by the hassle free Mass. It’s kind of the reason I never did drugs. I knew I’d like it! (now don’t jump all over me for that!)

This goes both ways, you know? If someone is attracted to the more liberal illicitness, they should be going to something that’s more on the SSPX end. This is all, however, just making arguments where none really exist. Remember, this is just an argument based on a non-probable which is that there are absolutely no licit Masses around. I think some would be hardpressed to find a diocese without at least one licit Mass. Even when my diocese was under its old “regime” we had a few safe havens.

 

[Sean_O_L]

Freeway 4321 wrote:

It’s as simple as enjoying the liturgy, and not receiving communion.

Attending Mass is definitely NOT done for “enjoyment”. I think that a far better word might be “edification”. The Mass is to be attended for a variety of reasons: because it is a propitiary sacrifice, a re-enactment of Christ’s death on the Cross, because it is a Sacrament, a sign of Unity, to satisfy one’s obligation to worship in the manner prescribed by the Church, etc. - but not for “enjoyment.”

Furthermore, as Ham1 wrote:

I can’t really see why you would want to witness a SSPX priest committing an egregious mortal sin by “celebrating” mass. Maybe if faithful Catholics would stop attending their sinful masses, they might realize that they really don’t have as many supporters as they thought.

You may be unaware that the above is, indeed, the case - for, Archbishop Lefebvre and his priests were suspended *a divinis *in 1976 - that is, they were suspended from performing ALL priestly duties (such as saying Mass, hearing Confessions, blessing pious objects, etc.) and, not only are in that state today, but have incurred the very grave canonical penalty of excommunication for being in a state of schism.

Attendance at their Mass is ONLY permitted under very restricted circumstances - somewhat similar to, say, being overseas in wartime and there being no Catholic priests available for 10 to twenty miles away and you do not have a vehicle available to get to the Catholic priests.

Most definitely, if you have reasonable access to your local parish Mass, then attendance at a local SSPX Mass does not qualify for attendance - even if you do not “like” the local pastor!

 

[Verbum]

Hi Freewway,

One can easily deceive oneself in these matters. The Canon provides for the reason of “spiritual benefit”, but I would let a confessor be the judge of that.

Verbum

 

[Freeway4321]

Let’s all calm down, now.

I think you are doing a disservice to my statements.

“enjoying” is probably not the word I should of said, but i’m rather lazy so it was bound to happen.

That should of been more of “wanting to experience heaven on earth”. Which is something that is rare, it’s the Eucharist, and… the churches themselves are supposed to be heaven on earth. But i’m getting off topic…

Since I am getting off topic, are we really to think that if the Orthodox & SSPX unite to the church that they will have to repent for the “illicit” masses? I doubt it. It’s a discussion worth having.

The bottom line is… Eastern Catholics are asked to go to services with Orthodox to pray together, but not recieve communion at the Orthodox parishes. I think the same goes for the SSPX. The thing here is, alot of you have a hypocritical attitude toward schismatic groups. I see alot of Orthodox “unity”. But with SSPX “heretics, dissenters etc…” This is probably the biggest problem with continuing a conversation about said topic.