SSPX not likely to 'come home'

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ProVobis said:
That works another way too. Many Anglophones don’t go to Mass because the closest time/place is a Spanish Mass. The 75% of Catholics who don’t attend Mass have all kinds of excuses why they don’t go.
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My earlier statement applies to these people as well:
This is truly an unfortunate occurrence, and if they know the importance of attending mass (Sunday obligation), a sin that will put their soul in jeopardy when their time comes, if not repented for.
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Big_Feet said:
My earlier statement applies to these people as well:
This is truly an unfortunate occurrence, and if they know the importance of attending mass (Sunday obligation), a sin that will put their soul in jeopardy when their time comes, if not repented for.
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Most of those who don’t attend at all will probably never know that they don’t know this importance and chances are their children will never know either. However, I’m not saying a schismatic mentality is better than a no-Church mentality. I’ll leave that matter to a moral theologian.
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Honestly, this is just getting frustrating. They have to realize that the Vatican won’t change without them. The Vatican holds all the strings. The best option they have is to join and then push for change within the Church.
 
TimothyH said:
All the crisis mongering is lack of trust in God. That’s what it is.
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If only that were the worst part though.

What we see in so-called “traddom” is that they seem to feel that they (or their pet-group) has been divinely ordained to fix all the ills in the world, usually starting with the “evils” of the OF. Of course, Louis David Riel thought he had a similar divine mission…

The real problem is “traddom” though has ironically been an abandonment of traditional spiritual discernment. For over 1000 years, when a group or person wanted to do something they laid the idea before the Church and waited for the Church’s judgement before going ahead with whatever grand idea they had.
sw85 said:
Every day sees some new impediment, new delay, new objection thrown up. I can’t help but feel that reconciliation is now in principle very unlikely.
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I think you’re on to something. For the last little while, the SSPX seems to have been doing nothing but, if you’ll excuse the slag, dicking around. Nor do I get any impression from the SSPX (outside of maybe Bishop Fellay) that they actually want to proceed with a reconciliation/regularization process.
Mike30 said:
I personally think that about 4,500 angels can dance on the head of a pin,👍
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I still say infinite (since angels are incorporeal and therefore do not have extension, ie they don’t take up space). 😛
Lost_Wanderer said:
I’m afraid it is. Just because you bring up the fallible side of the Pope doesn’t mean you can just flout his authority. Like any leader, the Pope’s job is to uphold the laws of the Church. If the SSPX deems itself higher than that Law, there will be consequences. It’s that simple.
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That’s an important distinction. There have been some not-as-good Popes, but that doesn’t diminish the authority or legitimacy of the office of Pope.

It’s like in the Gospels when Jesus talks about the Pharisees. Jesus specifically told them “Follow what they say, but don’t do what they do” (Matthew 23:1-3). You can’t just say “I’m ignoring everything”.
 
curlycool89 said:
If only that were the worst part though.

What we see in so-called “traddom” is that they seem to feel that they (or their pet-group) has been divinely ordained to fix all the ills in the world, usually starting with the “evils” of the OF. Of course, Louis David Riel thought he had a similar divine mission…

The real problem is “traddom” though has ironically been an abandonment of traditional spiritual discernment. For over 1000 years, when a group or person wanted to do something they laid the idea before the Church and waited for the Church’s judgement before going ahead with whatever grand idea they had.
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Why is it okay for people to come on here and insult a whole group of people? BigFeet, this is the sort of stuff I was referring to.

Curlycool, the only person I’ve seen using the word “traddom” is Br. Jr. Have you adopted this term as your own?
if you’ll excuse the slag, dicking around.
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No, sorry.
 
Stylites said:
To pass by a licit Mass in order to attend an illicit one would be a case of worshipping worship rather than worshipping God.
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Even though the Church herself has said that under certain conditions it is all right to do so?

Oh well, I do suppose that you know better.👍
 
Mike30 said:
Even though the Church herself has said that under certain conditions it is all right to do so?
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Passing by licit Masses in order to reach an illicit Mass is one of the certain conditions approved by the Church?
 
Stylites said:
Passing by licit Masses in order to reach an illicit Mass is one of the certain conditions approved by the Church?
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The Church should probably be more concerned about the large number that doesn’t go to Mass at all.
 
TrueLight said:
Why is it okay for people to come on here and insult a whole group of people?
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Insult where? I just made some observations (over time, not all of them in this thread). How may time have people said on this very forum “The SSPX is going to come home and save the whole Church” (and that’s not even exaggerating what was said)?
TrueLight said:
Curlycool, the only person I’ve seen using the word “traddom” is Br. Jr. Have you adopted this term as your own?
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It seems to me that it is not just a loose grouping anymore so-much as it is becoming a movement. It’s a short-hand name for the movement.
TrueLight said:
No, sorry.
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Oh good, you are able to tell me what they have been doing for 20+ years then? Preferably an answer that doesn’t sound like it was made by the SSPX PR department.
jam070406 said:
The Church should probably be more concerned about the large number that doesn’t go to Mass at all.
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And that’s called a tu quoque fallacious argument (or a slight variation of it).

The Church is concerned about both.
 
Stylites said:
Passing by licit Masses in order to reach an illicit Mass is one of the certain conditions approved by the Church?
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The Church has said that under certain conditions it is permissable to attend an SSPX Mass and receive Holy Communion there. One must be attending due to a genuine love, dedication and appreciation for the Extraordinary Form of the Rite and not due to any possible schismatic ideas or mentality or a belief that the Ordinary Form is invalid… Such attendance is not reccommended on a long term basis due to the posibility that such an attitude could develop. It is also permissable to donate to that Chapel as well.

The Church has never said that the SSPX Masses are invalid. They are valid and a valid Eucharist is confected at them. They are termed illicit in that the Priest is not supposed to celebrate them. Any canonical penalty incurred at such a Mass would fall on the Priest, not on the laity as long as they are attending for the above stated reasons.

The Church does not share in the omnipresent disgust, loathing and hatred for the SSPX that many on this forum seem to have,
 
curlycool89 said:
Insult where? I just made some observations (over time, not all of them in this thread). How may time have people said on this very forum “The SSPX is going to come home and save the whole Church” (and that’s not even exaggerating what was said)?

It seems to me that it is not just a loose grouping anymore so-much as it is becoming a movement. It’s a short-hand name for the movement.
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My “no sorry” was to your language. I don’t pardon it.

In terms of what they have been doing for 20 years, you wouldn’t understand.

Are you praying for reconciliation or praying for the hammer to come down?

If the SSPX is declared in schism, will you be one of the ones cheering in your seminary or one of the ones praying for their souls?
 
curlycool89 said:
And that’s called a tu quoque fallacious argument (or a slight variation of it).

The Church is concerned about both.
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Really? Because we’re told time and again on these threads that there is no crisis and the Church doesn’t need those Pharisee-like SSPX.
 
jam070406 said:
Really? Because we’re told time and again on these threads that there is no crisis and the Church doesn’t need those Pharisee-like SSPX.
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Interestingly, Archbishop Di Noia says the church is in fact in crisis in this recent interview.

This is a good interview which acknowledges some of the concerns of the SSPX but also is firm that the SSPX needs to reconcile.

Di Noia Interview

Should be interesting to see what the upcoming months bring.

I myself will continue to pray.
 
jam070406 said:
Of course, progressives want them to go away so they can destroy the Faith without a fight.
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Jam,
I honestly do not think anyone is willfully trying to destroy the Faith, nor will God allow it!

Please, people, lets stop the mudslinging from both sides, and discuss the facts, and unfortunate realities.

Thank you! (OP)
 
TrueLight said:
Interestingly, Archbishop Di Noia says the church is in fact in Crisis in this recent interview.

This is a good interview which acknowledges some of the concerns of the SSPX but also is firm that the SSPX needs to reconcile.

Di Noia Interview
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An interesting interview in multiple respects - thanks for posting the link!
 
jam070406 said:
Really? Because we’re told time and again on these threads that there is no crisis and the Church doesn’t need those Pharisee-like SSPX.
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Surprisingly Archbishop DiNoia himself says the Church is in crisis.

Curycool, in further response to your comment that the SSPX has been messing around (I won’t use the term you used), during this recent interview, the Archibishop was asked what good the SSPX can bring to the Church. This is what he says,
If they are accepted by the Church and restored to full communion, they will be a sort of living witness to the continuity. They can be perfectly happy being in the Catholic Church, so they would be a living testimony to show that the continuity before and after the Council is real.
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How interesting.

The interview is a good interview. I don’t agree with everything he says, but he seems to take a balanced approach, which is always very important. He sympathizes with some of the concerns of the SSPX but is firm that they need to be reconciled, a viewpoint I agree with.

Check out the interview here:Di Noia Interview

May the prayers of those without malicious intent rise as a sweet savor to our Lord.
 
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