SSPX rejects Vatican's latest offer [CNAU]

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I think this is a misleading headline. The SSPX hasn’t formally done anything. It’s all based on some leaked internal correspondence.
 
If they do reject it outright at their assembly in July, then that will probably be it.

The Holy Father wrote to them this Spring that they were going to come on board or that Bp. Fellay would have been responsible for leading them into (basically) schism.

At least either end will finally end the limbo we now find ourselves in.
 
curlycool89 said:
If they do reject it outright at their assembly in July, then that will probably be it.

The Holy Father wrote to them this Spring that they were going to come on board or that Bp. Fellay would have been responsible for leading them into (basically) schism.

At least either end will finally end the limbo we now find ourselves in.
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It’s been close to three years now that they have been talking. It would be very sad to me to see this result in no reconciliation. May God’s will be done.
 
Boulder257 said:
It’s been close to three years now that they have been talking. It would be very sad to me to see this result in no reconciliation. May God’s will be done.
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Indeed.

Although I try to avoid it, inevitably I wind up scanning the comments section on these articles. It’s sad to see the comments from people “celebrating” and hoping that the SSPX is not reconciled because they “deserve” to “stew in their own juice”. I have a hard time imagining that would be Jesus’ response to them.
 
ProVobis said:
All is not lost.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1202720.htm
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There is something I do not understand. In business the best and hardest deals are done by the two decision makers in a room making a deal. Boards, committees, lawyers they just all complicate matters. And while all those things are needed, it really just comes down to two men. So why is this not the case here? Why dont the Pope and Fellay meet, hash it out and be done with it. The Pope lays out a document, Fellay asks if words can be changed, they discuss why or why not and make a decision. Why has this not happened?
 
Moore11 said:
There is something I do not understand. In business the best and hardest deals are done by the two decision makers in a room making a deal. Boards, committees, lawyers they just all complicate matters. And while all those things are needed, it really just comes down to two men. So why is this not the case here? Why dont the Pope and Fellay meet, hash it out and be done with it. The Pope lays out a document, Fellay asks if words can be changed, they discuss why or why not and make a decision. Why has this not happened?
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I think it is much more delicate than this. We are not talking about merging two corporations. Instead this deals with the revelation and interpretation of the Will of God. Both sides believe they cannot compromise “truth” and thus this isn’t a true negotiation. It’s not about reaching compromise as much as it’s about ensuring that the doctrine of the Church is preserved and not undermined in the process of compromise.

The Vatican has had some very heavy hitters in the rooms during these discussion. I remember when the talks started the Vatican sent what many consider to be the three best theologians on the planet to the discussion.

Having said all of this, none of us are in the rooms nor can we speculate as to why the Holy Father has not met with Bishop Fellay in person or what has been discussed. We can pray that the Holy Spirit work in all those who are involved and lead all souls to the prservation of Truth.
 
I do find it interesting that these leaks keep occuring. Despite my desire to know what is happening, I think these “leaks” are more damaging than anything. It seems as though these leaks keep coming from the SSPX side. Someone releases internal correspondence that is then later authenticated. I think this undermines the entire process. It would also make me hesitant to be involved if I thought that the delicate nature of these discussion was going to be constantly undermined.
 
Moore11 said:
There is something I do not understand. In business the best and hardest deals are done by the two decision makers in a room making a deal. Boards, committees, lawyers they just all complicate matters. And while all those things are needed, it really just comes down to two men. So why is this not the case here? Why dont the Pope and Fellay meet, hash it out and be done with it. The Pope lays out a document, Fellay asks if words can be changed, they discuss why or why not and make a decision. Why has this not happened?
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Well, we can really only speculate. If it were me, I would be concerned that such a meeting would paint the situation as though Pope Benedict and Bishop Fellay are somehow on equal footing in terms of authority.
 
Archbishop Di Noia told Catholic News Service June 26 the Vatican needed to help people who have strong objections to the council see “that these disagreements don’t have to be dividing or keep us from the same Communion table.”
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“It is possible to have theological disagreements while remaining in communion with the see of Peter,” he said.
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catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1202720.htm
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Hmm, doesn’t this justify so-called cafeteria Catholics?

Jim
 
justme said:
I think “theological” disagreements are different than “dogmatic” disagreements.
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But many so-called cafeteria Catholics, don’t necessarily reject dogmas, but theological issues.

Jim
 
Joe_5859 said:
Well, we can really only speculate. If it were me, I would be concerned that such a meeting would paint the situation as though Pope Benedict and Bishop Fellay are somehow on equal footing in terms of authority.
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I dont think that is true. I dont think when Microsoft negotiates a deal with a small company the small company believes it has “equal power” as Microsoft. The fact is there a disagreement and an agreement must be reached. Insofar as saying yes or no they are kind of on equal footing. The pope can say yes or no. Fellay can obey or not. The more people you get involved the more egos are in play. Rather than appointing a new person to deal with the SSPX why not just have this be the end one way or another? As rambunctious as the SSPX are I still have to believe that if the Pope looked Fellay in the eye and demanded obedience he would comply.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
But many so-called cafeteria Catholics, don’t necessarily reject dogmas, but theological issues.
Jim
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Such as? The only “definition” of “cafeteria” Catholic I know of is where they deny some dogmatic teaching of the Church.

Just in case this is where you are headed, contraception is not a theological issue, it is dogmatic. Same with Gay Marriage and abortion.
 
Moore11 said:
I dont think that is true. I dont think when Microsoft negotiates a deal with a small company the small company believes it has “equal power” as Microsoft. The fact is there a disagreement and an agreement must be reached. Insofar as saying yes or no they are kind of on equal footing. The pope can say yes or no. Fellay can obey or not. The more people you get involved the more egos are in play. Rather than appointing a new person to deal with the SSPX why not just have this be the end one way or another? As rambunctious as the SSPX are I still have to believe that if the Pope looked Fellay in the eye and demanded obedience he would comply.
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These bishops were excommunicated and still did not comply. I wouldn’t be so sure a “stern look” from the Pope is going to change their mind. You would think the lifting of the excommunications would have spoken to their hearts a bit, but instead it made them more resilient. What’s to say that the Pope showing up doesn’t get the same response?

The Vatican has much more information than we do and Pope Benedict is an incredibly intelligent and strategic man. I would venture to guess their is a good reason he hasn’t chose to participate “in person.”
 
justme said:
Such as? The only “definition” of “cafeteria” Catholic I know of is where they deny some dogmatic teaching of the Church.

Just in case this is where you are headed, contraception is not a theological issue, it is dogmatic. Same with Gay Marriage and abortion.
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Most I know have issues with artificial birth control, and divorce.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Most I know have issues with artificial birth control, and divorce.

Jim
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Just to be clear, that would be divorce and remarriage, correct?

Both of those are dogmatic and not theological issues.

I define the difference in that we are free to hold different views on theological issues but not on dogmatic ones.
 
justme said:
Just to be clear, that would be divorce and remarriage, correct?

Both of those are dogmatic and not theological issues.

I define the difference in that we are free to hold different views on theological issues but not on dogmatic ones.
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No, but those aren’t dogmas.

SSPX rejection of the authority of the counsel of Bishops, is more serious,.

Jim
 
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