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laudamus_te
Guest
Funny, I didn’t see you accusing Timothysis of claiming to read the minds of popes:
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consumedconvert
Guest
Oh dear, this is turning into a Martyr Complex.
So let’s make sure we have our terminology clear, at least. A Martyr dies for the Faith. There’s a really huge difference between disobeying a Pope and being called on the carpet for it and criticized.
St. More and St. Fisher gave their heads rather than deny the primacy of the Pope. Bishop Lefebvre gave his reputation among some to defy the Pope, although he also won adulation from some. Whether you agree with him or not, you must recognize that there is a huge huge huge huge difference between Bishop Lefebvre’s fate and that of the martyrs.
I’m sure Bishop Lefebvre believed he was doing the right thing. God be with him.
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laudamus_te
Guest
Yes, he did. And he never denied the primacy of the Pope.
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piouswoman
Guest
Not only did he believe he was doing the right thing…he absolutely WAS doing the right thing.
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catharina
Guest
Do you know that your geocities link is to a multiplicity of articles, including the following:
A Detailed Look at the errors of Vatican II
…
Vatican II - Introduction to a new Religion
…
Vatican II and the Spring Time Decay
Answering the Explicit Errors of Vatican II
Vatican II vs. Unity Willed by Christ - By John Vennari
The Principal Errors of Conciliar Ecclesiology
Vatican II and the Spirit of Woodstock? - By Christopher Ferrara
The Heresy of Americanism & Vatican II - By Bishop Williamson
VATICAN II: RENEWAL OR A NEW RELIGION by John Thomson
Principal Errors of Vatican II Ecclesiology - by Georges de Nantes
A closer look at the The Principal Errors of Vatican II
VATICAN II - “Differing from Other Councils…” - by Peter W. Miller
On the First Session of Vatican II - By Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
The Incoherent Council - Vatican II and Religious Liberty
Eight Challenges to the conservative Catholics - This article sets out clearly the Post Conciliar contradictions
Enablers of a New Religion: the Wojtylarians - by MARIO DERKSEN
101 Teachings of John Paul II that go against the Faith - This should help you understand why to resist the post Conciliar revolution.
Code:
Those titles are only a few from only one tiny section.
Sounds like any pro-sspx "defiance is our middle name" site.
What else is new?
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catharina
Guest
In defying the SOLE authority of the Pope,
M Lefevbre never denied the primacy of the Pope?
Is that a joke?
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I_Believe
Guest
So, is Rome being foolish ? I don’t think so.
The excommunications will be lifted.
It is a well known fact that Rome is talking with the SSPX, to bring them back in full communion. Rome is not trying to bring them in communion. They already are in communion, albeit in an irregular communion. Cardinal Hoyos has stated it is an internal matter.
In God’s good time, the excommunications will be lifted. If Rome is of the opinion that this is not possible, then why are they even talking to the SSPX ?
Time and time again, we have folks saying that the excommunications will never be lifted. Nonsense. They must be lifted in order to welcome them back in full communion.
H.E. Archbisop Fellay said the MP of BXVI was in effect, a death warrant for the NO. SSPX detractors were outraged. Rome must not be. Talks continue. Rome knows the SSPX will not budge on matters of Doctrine. Talks continue.
Why ? Because Pope BXVI is not going to flee for fear of the wolves. Remember his homily at his inaugural Mass ?
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2005/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20050424_inizio-pontificato_en.html
All my opinion of course, but the writing is on the wall. This Pope was elected by those who knew what they were getting.
It is springtime, and I love it
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laudamus_te
Guest
No, this is a joke:
A man walked up to a Franciscan and Jesuit and asked, “How many novenas must you say to get a Mercedes Benz?”
The Franciscan asked, “What’s a Mercedes Benz?”
The Jesuit asked, “What’s a novena?”
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I_Believe
Guest
Yes indeed. Bank on it !
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piouswoman
Guest
Have you ever heard of “state of necessity”? No? well good thing there was, good thing he did, otherwise, there would be no TLM today for the neo-trads, there would of been no summorum pontificum issued which** vindicated** Archbishop Lefevbre, and the modernists would of accomplished just exactly what they had set out to do…get rid of the Traditional Latin Mass once and for all…what a major chop…their evil plan was foiled.
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catharina
Guest
Address any complaints to St. Ignatius Loyola.
(The Church does not recognize any saint named Marcel Lefebvre.)
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consumedconvert
Guest
I cannot agree with that, because I believe Obedience is too important.
Bishop Lefebvre used Canon Law as his defense, since Canon Law makes special allowances for a state of emergency. However, in the preliminary Canons (is it 17?), Canon Law states that the authoritative interpreter of a law would be the legislator of that law. That would be the Papacy.
So his argument unravels. I saw this pointed out in an excellent Envoy Magazine interview with a Canonist and former SSPX member, but unfortunately the site is either down or no longer extant.
CC
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I_Believe
Guest
Here is a joke for you.
Question: What do you get when you cross a modernist with a liberal ?
Answer : Not much.
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piouswoman
Guest
To be put on the fast track to sainthood in todays church is no compliment…case in point, pope John Paul II…you know, the one that kissed the Koran amongst other things…now bouncing along on the conveyor belt in the conciliar saint factory.
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consumedconvert
Guest
With all due respect, we’re talking about the Holy Catholic Church here, not a comic book.
CC
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consumedconvert
Guest
What do you get when you cross a Unitarian with a Jehovah’s Witness?Here is a joke for you.
Question: What do you get when you cross a modernist with a liberal ?
Answer : Not much.
A: Someone who goes around knocking on doors with nothing in particular on his mind.
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consumedconvert
Guest
Of course if he is sainted, we would have to recognize the fact that he is a Saint, since naming saints is an exercise of the Magisterium.
I would suspect you agree with this.
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NicPais83
Guest
I just finished reading it, and I’ll make this comment before I retire for the night (wow, it’s late!). It’s a rather compelling web-page, but I am having difficulties with the same issues: citations, citations, citations! There are a lot of sections, but the first two sections are sort of a preamble to the main argument, so I’ll skip them except to say that there are no references.
“Was Vatican II Necessary?” The citation from Card. Billot does not necessarily refer to the same statement in the previous sentence about the Cardinals being modernists. If it does, the statement is not explicitly a reference to them. As for the rest of the section, any citations that it does give are merely to the Encyclicals that Pius XII issued, and one that cites that he wanted to convene a Council. Other than that, the talk about the dangers involved with convening a Council have no references or citations.
“Was the Vatican II Infallible?” The only citation offered that questions the infallibility of the Council is given in a text published in 1987, more than two decades removed from the Council, and from someone other than the Holy Father. Later in this same section, after emphasizing that there were no dogmas proclaimed, that errors can therefore leak in. This logic does not follow, as the point hinges on the idea that if no dogmas were declared, then the Holy Spirit was not present or invoked; another comment that the article makes without citations.
“Do the Documents of Vatican II Contradict Church Teaching?” This one is a little daunting at first, but there are whole in the logic too. On Ecumenism, the left hand side refers to worship, the right hand side refers to prayer. The right hand side does not allow us to worship with Protestants/Orthodox, but we can pray with them, such as for unity under the Roman Pontiff. The right hand side mentions that God can bestow His grace on whom He chooses; the left hand side mentions that worship only one religion leads to salvation. On the Modern World, the first quote on the right is highly chopped up, suspect already. The right never talks about pleasing man, it talks about serving man, which Jesus calls us to do in the Gospel (corporal works of mercy). It is true that the rights of man can be paraded around condoning much evil, but none the less, there are basic rights that God has given, such as the right to life, which the Church always proclaims. I can go on, and I will if you ask, but this is getting really long right now, so I will skip downward.
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laudamus_te
Guest
Heaven is filled with saints who the Church does not “recognize.” That doesn’t mean you can’t pray to them.
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