SSPX: Traditionalist head says Vatican doctrinal statement needs changes

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VATICAN CITY (CNS):
The head of the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X said a “doctrinal preamble” presented by the Vatican needs changes before it can be accepted as the basis for the group’s reconciliation.

The statement by Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior of the society, appeared to hold out hope for further discussions with the Vatican, but it was unclear whether the Vatican would be willing to revisit the text.

“It is true that this doctrinal preamble cannot receive our endorsement, although leeway has been allowed for a ‘legitimate discussion’ about certain points of the (Second Vatican) Council. What is the extent of this leeway?” Bishop Fellay said in an interview posted on the society’s website Nov. 29.

In September, when Bishop Fellay was handed the preamble, the Vatican did not publish the document but said it “states some doctrinal principles and criteria for the interpretation of Catholic doctrine necessary to guarantee fidelity” to the formal teaching of the church.

In his interview, however, Bishop Fellay said the preamble was “a document which can be clarified and modified, as the accompanying note points out. It is not a definitive text.”

“The proposal that I will make in the next few days to the Roman authorities and their response in turn will enable us to evaluate our remaining options. And whatever the result of these talks may be, the final document that will have been accepted or rejected will be made public,” he said.

Asked whether the past two years of talks with the Vatican have been pointless, Bishop Fellay said they have allowed the society to present their objections to the doctrinal difficulties caused by Vatican II “and consequently show why adherence to the council is problematic. This is an essential first step.”

“In Rome itself, the evolving interpretations given to religious liberty, the modifications that have been made on this subject in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and in the Compendium of it, the corrections that are currently being studied for the Code of Canon Law … all this shows the difficulties that you run into when you try to abide by the conciliar documents at all costs,” Bishop Fellay said.

“From our perspective, this nicely shows the impossibility of adhering in a stable way to a doctrine in motion,” he added.

The eventual “canonical solution” envisioned by the Vatican for the society was expected to take the form of a personal prelature, or a church jurisdiction without geographical boundaries. Bishop Fellay said such an arrangement would be pointless unless the doctrinal differences were resolved.
I am disappointed to hear this but must admit that I am not terribly surprised. From the little I know of the situation, I did not hold out too much in the way of hope.

Peace
 
Honestly, as someone with some traditionalist sympathies, I’ve been sympathetic to the SSPX’s plight for a long time and been praying for reunion, but these latest developments are making me begin to feel like they’re nothing more than arrogant rogues trying to make Rome submit to them and not the other way around. 🤷

Yes, Fellay says he’ll discuss more with Rome, and I hope it leads to reunion, but I feel like unless we wake up one morning and read the headline “Pope Benedict XVI abrogates Mass of Paul VI and Vatican II” they’re going to refuse to submit.
 
I see it as pure charity that they have not been anathematized. I find it very hard to imagine Saint Paul being so lenient with the obstinately disobedient.
 
The Old Catholics were the fallout from Vatican I. It appears certain that the SSPX will be the fallout from Vatican II.
 
Honestly, as someone with some traditionalist sympathies, I’ve been sympathetic to the SSPX’s plight for a long time and been praying for reunion, but these latest developments are making me begin to feel like they’re nothing more than arrogant rogues trying to make Rome submit to them and not the other way around. 🤷

Yes, Fellay says he’ll discuss more with Rome, and I hope it leads to reunion, but I feel like unless we wake up one morning and read the headline “Pope Benedict XVI abrogates Mass of Paul VI and Vatican II” they’re going to refuse to submit.
Agree with you. At what point do we do something scriptural, such as “shaking the dust from our feet” regarding the SSPX?
 
The whole traditionalist movement, really.
And that is what I do not like the current state of the Latin Rite traditionalist movement. I’m not against the traditionalist movement, but the spirit of it currently carries the attitude of the SSPX which I think is not good for the spiritual health of the faithful.
 
And that is what I do not like the current state of the Latin Rite traditionalist movement. I’m not against the traditionalist movement, but the spirit of it currently carries the attitude of the SSPX which I think is not good for the spiritual health of the faithful.
It tends to promote division within the Body, if not separation from the Body, as I see it. Blessed be God, Who has set a firm hand in the chair of Peter. Reasons for division are fairly quickly diminishing now.

It is clear to me that, as in the case with the reformers, schismatics are also ego-driven and lack humility. “Ready to ask for changes”? Changes to the best and most charitable deal they have ever been offered, as in restoration to communion? Please explain the moral difference between them and the unrepentant thief on the cross. Both are making unreasonable demands of the Body of Christ.
 
Agree with you. At what point do we do something scriptural, such as “shaking the dust from our feet” regarding the SSPX?
Benedict is quite a patient Pope and think of all the talk of the “German Rottweiller.” 😃

I really respect the Holy Father and he is giving a lesson of how the papacy can be quite gentle and patient even when facing obstinacy.
 
Benedict is quite a patient Pope and think of all the talk of the “German Rottweiller.” 😃

I really respect the Holy Father and he is giving a lesson of how the papacy can be quite gentle and patient even when facing obstinacy.
In addition, throughout Church history, she has consistently taken the long view.
 
From the report, Bishop Fellay’s words do not seem conciliatory at all. He seems dead set upon either securing an exemption from the pastoral guidelines of VII, and/or obtaining some form of admission of fault from the Vatican. If only he displayed the humility of the Orthodox, or the Anglicans. Yet, the Church is being re-constituted with or without him. Perhaps he wishes only to remain somehow relevant.

More prayers are in order.
 
Benedict is quite a patient Pope and think of all the talk of the “German Rottweiller.” 😃

I really respect the Holy Father and he is giving a lesson of how the papacy can be quite gentle and patient even when facing obstinacy.
I agree. Prayer and patience are best. Augustine and the Donatists seem similar. Nothing moves too fast though for reconciliation to be most effective.
St Julie
 
Honestly, as someone with some traditionalist sympathies, I’ve been sympathetic to the SSPX’s plight for a long time and been praying for reunion, but these latest developments are making me begin to feel like they’re nothing more than arrogant rogues trying to make Rome submit to them and not the other way around. 🤷

Yes, Fellay says he’ll discuss more with Rome, and I hope it leads to reunion, but I feel like unless we wake up one morning and read the headline “Pope Benedict XVI abrogates Mass of Paul VI and Vatican II” they’re going to refuse to submit.
I agree with you. They do seem like arrogant rogues who are trying to make Rome submit to them. They are the ones who need to submit to Rome. Rome does not need to submit to them. Honestly, the SSPX remind me more and more of the Sedevacantists by the day.
 
Nothing has changed.

They are still in the mode of “We accede to Rome in those things that Rome is correct on”.

I fear that this will come to an end without reconciliation.
 
I think some good will come out of this because the SSPX points out real difficulties that have to be explained. They’re correct to say that its difficult to reconcile Vatican II’s religious liberty with the pronouncements of earlier popes on religious liberty. If something is confusing, why shouldn’t it be explained so that it makes sense?

The SSPX claims to be following the religion they received from their grandparents. Is it true? If it is true, does the church mean to declare our grandparents beliefs heretical?

The SSPX points out contradictions between infallible statements pre-council and infallible statements of the council. Are we to suspect logic and accept that two contradictory statements can both be infallible?

I would like answers to all of these difficult questions, and I hope they come out of the discussions.
 
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