SSPX update?

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I was speaking of the Church, not our parochial issues. We forget here in the States that the Church is bigger than our country. The Church is above politics and can thrive even in an immoral environment such as America or the Roman Empire.
I totally agree with these statements. I pray that all Catholics remember, in upcoming elections, that our first duty is to the Church. It’s unfortunate that our bishops can’t be more forthright with telling those in the pews how to vote but of course as soon as they even hint at a Catholic voting agenda, the ultrasecularists and militant atheists see an opportunity to take away the Church’s tax exemption, and start the petition drive and the lawsuit talk, yaddi-yaddi.

But surely you don’t think we are in a state of general decline of public virtue and morality as occurred in the Roman Empire? Oh, say it ain’t so!:eek::rolleyes:
 
But surely you don’t think we are in a state of general decline of public virtue and morality as occurred in the Roman Empire? Oh, say it ain’t so!:eek::rolleyes:
I would have slipped Nazis in there somewhere, but that is rather overdone on the internet.

You know, we have stats and comparisons pop up all the time here. I have seen so many come and go. The best I can glean is that the ones that appear negative never involve the world-wide Church, or do not take ino account changes in society as reflected in impact on other faiths. I just can’t see things as bleak right now. I know that does not play into the SSPX viewpoint.
 
Spiritually (as in the Church): I agree.

Politically/culturally, I sadly disagree.😦
Good distinction. The Church and its teachings are eternal. There are teens I work with who are a bit indignant about the lack of female priests. I think that, as teens often do, they think they might be able to change this. Well, I’ve been thinking of just the right, most compassionate way to disabuse them of that notion. Church tradition doesn’t change just because the populi want change. I want the teens to understand that we accept the eternal Church as it is, with full faith. Rather than seeking to change Church doctrine and dogma, we change ourselves and accept the traditions of the church, to live with them, and to love them. I think that paradoxically, there is actually great freedom in that.
 
SSPX: “There are problems with Vatican II”.
Pope: “What is that? We see no problem”.
SSPX: “It can be interpreted to justify novelties and contradict Tradition and Dogma”.
Pope: “The Church cannot break with its past. What was true before is true now”.
SSPX: “But modernists say it has done. Modernists are saying X. They are doing Y”.
Pope: “They are wrong”.

If the latter statement is made and specifics given, in this Year of Faith, it would be a tidy resolution of the hysteria of the past 40 years.

And don’t forget, there is a statement on Medjugorje due ‘soon’ (in the Roman timescale).

It could all work out very well in the end. Keep goin’ Pope Benny!
 
SSPX: “There are problems with Vatican II”.
Pope: “What is that? We see no problem”.
SSPX: “It can be interpreted to justify novelties and contradict Tradition and Dogma”.
Pope: “The Church cannot break with its past. What was true before is true now”.
SSPX: "But modernists say it has done. Modernists are saying X. They are doing Y".
Pope: “They are wrong”.

If the latter statement is made and specifics given, in this Year of Faith, it would be a tidy resolution of the hysteria of the past 40 years.

And don’t forget, there is a statement on Medjugorje due ‘soon’ (in the Roman timescale).

It could all work out very well in the end. Keep goin’ Pope Benny!
Sounds like the script from a youtube video featuring Santa.

And with respect: It’s Pope Benedict XVI to you, me, and everyone else.😦
 
In his interview with the National Catholic Register as reported early last month, Archbishop Muller (sorry, can’t type the umlaut) states: “The SSPX is not the only breakaway group in the Church. There are worse ones on the opposite side, too. These movements are worse because they are often denying essentials of Christianity.”

I’m curious if anyone knows, specifically, to what groups “on the left,” so to speak, Archbishop Muller is referring? I just found this statement curious, because I’m really not aware of whom he is speaking.

Source: ncregister.com/daily-news/archbishop-mueller-on-the-sspx-and-his-controversial-writings
Jokes aside, I think he was referring to the LCWR - something of a huge headache for the Church.

"The Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has ordered the largest leadership organization for U.S. women religious to reform its statutes, programs and affiliations to conform more closely to "the teachings and discipline of the Church."

"The document from the congregation (CDF) re-emphasizes the reason for the doctrinal assessment, writing that Levada told LCWR leadership in 2008 that the congregation had three major areas of concern with the group:
  • ** The content of speakers’ addresses at the annual LCWR assemblies;**
  • ** “Corporate dissent” in the congregation regarding the church’s sexual teachings; and**
  • ** “A prevalence of certain radical feminist themes incompatible with the Catholic faith” present in some of the organizations programs and presentations.**
The document cites an address by Dominican Sr. Laurie Brink, given at the 2007 LCWR assembly, and says that certain passages in it addressing how some members of religious congregations view their vocations indicated a “serious source of scandal.”

“The Cardinal offered as an example specific passages of Sr. Laurie Brink’s address about some Religious ‘moving beyond the Church’ or even beyond Jesus,” reads the document. “This is a challenge not only to core Catholic beliefs; such a rejection of faith is also a serious source of scandal and is incompatible with religious life.”
ncronline.org/node/29834

“Archbishop Gerhard Müller, the new prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, speaks about** two high-profile cases involving his dicastery: the talks aimed at reconciliation with the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), and Vatican call for reform of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR). In each case, he emphasizes, the Vatican will insist that the organization fully accepts the teachings of the Church.”**catholicculture.org/news/…?storyid=15825
 
Well, I suppose he has a tough row to hoe since resolution in both cases isn’t going to be easy. I have my pet pick of which one I hope gets fixed first, but I’ll never tell!😃
 
Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR) is one group. However, the Archbishop did indeed say “groups” as in the plural. And while he named SSPX in the NCR quote he did not name which “groups on the opposite side” he was referring to, neither LCWR or others. Here is the original quote from the NCR review again: “The SSPX is not the only breakaway group in the Church. There are worse ones on the opposite side, too. These movements are worse because they are often denying essentials of Christianity.” Note that he uses the term “movements” in plural as well.

Since he does use the terms “groups” and “movements” however, perhaps he is indeed referring to LCWR in this quote, and other “groups” or “movements” unnamed. He doesn’t seem to be referring to the individual cafeteria Catholics who vote for same sex “marriage” or pro-abortion candidates, although perhaps as voters they might be considered a “group.”

Are the cafeterianists now a “movement?” Perhaps they should be.
 
Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR) is one group. However, the Archbishop did indeed say “groups” as in the plural. And while he named SSPX in the NCR quote he did not name which “groups on the opposite side” he was referring to, neither LCWR or others. Here is the original quote from the NCR review again: “The SSPX is not the only breakaway group in the Church. There are worse ones on the opposite side, too. These movements are worse because they are often denying essentials of Christianity.” Note that he uses the term “movements” in plural as well.

Since he does use the terms “groups” and “movements” however, perhaps he is indeed referring to LCWR in this quote, and other “groups” or “movements” unnamed. He doesn’t seem to be referring to the individual cafeteria Catholics who vote for same sex “marriage” or pro-abortion candidates, although perhaps as voters they might be considered a “group.”

Are the cafeterianists now a “movement?” Perhaps they should be.
The CDF is very careful about using such terms as “Cafeteria Catholics.” It can easily trigger the Holy Father’s anger. Many people: lay, religious and clergy have been erroneously telling Catholics that it is contrary to Catholicism to vote for a pro-choice or a pro-abortion candidate when that is not true. Cardinal Ratzinger made it very clear that one can vote for such a candidate in the case that one seeks to achieve another good. In other words, you may vote for the candidate as long as you’re not voting to support his position on abortion, same sex marriage or contraception.

For example, you may have a situation where a candidate who is pro-choice is also pro services to the elderly and the homeless. You cast your vote in the hope of improving said services for the poor, while at the same time you can challenge the same candidate when he or she speaks in favor of that which is contrary to morality. That would not be a Cafeteria Catholic. Such a vote would be acceptable under moral law. The person is being morally consistent. He is promoting the good and denouncing evil.

One directly violates the moral law if one votes for a candidate in order to protect the alleged right to abortion as many people do, but not if one votes for the same candidate to achieve another good that the opposition fails to support.

In some way or another, we all remotely support some of these positions. It’s almost unavoidable. A simple example would be banking. Unless you keep your money under your mattress, it is very difficult to find a bank that does not contribute to Planned Parenthood. Unless you walk, it’s very difficult to find a commercial airline that does not provide insurance to its employees that does not cover contraception or abortion. There is a line of reason that one has to observe before one goes around labeling people.

I do not deny that there are Cafeteria Catholics. However, I refuse to call anyone by such a label or to allow anyone under my jurisdiction to do so. Only God and the person’s spiritual director know for sure who’s who among men.

My usual stance is to encourage people to promote the culture of life, to speak for the voiceless, to bring the Gospel of Life to those who do not know it or do not understand it and to denounce all forms of injustice against human life and dignity, while at the same time promoting and encouraging all efforts to serve the material and spiritual needs of every human being with equity.

This has been one of the criticism that the more orthodox religious orders, societies of apostolic life, bishops and lay movements have made of the SSPX. While it is very strong in its condemnation of abortion, same sex marriage, contraception, divorce and remarriage, etc it is very weak in its support and promotion of human rights, human dignity and the pro-life movement. When invited to join us in on such occasions as the March for Life around the country, the SSPX in the USA has always declined.

Maybe they attend on their own. But they do not want to march alongside the rest of us. They seem to have a very difficult time recognizing that one cannot be against abortion, euthanasia, infanticide and contraception and indifferent to racial discrimination, poverty among women, hunger among children and other evils. The truth is that we must put our money where our mouth is.

This is what makes the Franciscans of Life, Sisters of Life, Missionaries of the Poor, Missionaries of Charity, Franciscans of the Renewal, Franciscans of Peace, and many Catholic lay organizations very special. While we endeavor to rid the world of the culture of death, we also provide people with the material means to bring their children into the world with the promise that we will meet their basic needs of health, education, housing, employment and when possible, marital stability. The Margaret Sangers of today cannot say that contraception and abortion is are necessary means to eradicate poverty. This is Planned Parenthood’s mantra, when in reality it was founded to eradicate the black people of this country.

The SSPX has to come around and see reason on this. It’s easy to condemn a sin and turn your back on the reasons that often lead to sin. That too can be a form of selective Catholicism.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
Look who’s back! Hey, everybody, Brother JR’s here!:
Kind of a short post, though.😉 You feelin’ okay?
 
Many people: lay, religious and clergy have been erroneously telling Catholics that it is contrary to Catholicism to vote for a pro-choice or a pro-abortion candidate when that is not true. Cardinal Ratzinger made it very clear that one can vote for such a candidate in the case that one seeks to achieve another good. In other words, you may vote for the candidate as long as you’re not voting to support his position on abortion, same sex marriage or contraception.

For example, you may have a situation where a candidate who is pro-choice is also pro services to the elderly and the homeless. You cast your vote in the hope of improving said services for the poor, while at the same time you can challenge the same candidate when he or she speaks in favor of that which is contrary to morality. That would not be a Cafeteria Catholic. Such a vote would be acceptable under moral law. The person is being morally consistent. He is promoting the good and denouncing evil.
Or, as is the case in countries where both major parties are “pro-choice”, you vote for the one which is stronger on other issues. Or vote third-party / independent.

That’s a very brave statement, Brother. 👍 But given the climate around here after the 2012 election, you might want to have your asbestos suit ready. 😃
 
Or, as is the case in countries where both major parties are “pro-choice”, you vote for the one which is stronger on other issues. Or vote third-party / independent.That’s what I did, voted for Virgil Goode (pronounced, Gude). He didn’t get a lot of votes and apparently mine may not have counted. I thought he was on the approved list of write in candidates in der Kaleefohnia, but perhaps not. Well, my vote wouldn’t have counted anyway, in the ultra-blue People’s Republic of California. The Obaminator had those electoral votes wrapped up years ago.

That’s a very brave statement, Brother. 👍 But given the climate around here after the 2012 election, you might want to have your asbestos suit ready. 😃
Yup. The only reason I’m not getting after him right now is because I’m glad to see him, and I’d also like like to see this thread set the longevity record for SSPX-related threads, which will only happen if we stay civilized.
 
So, no more use of the term “Cafeteria Catholics” eh? I wasn’t aware that it upset our Pope, which I would never want to do. I hope he hangs around for awhile, writes some more wonderful books and makes some more appointments of nice, *conservative and orthodox * archbishops such as Archbishop Gomez in LA, Archbishop Cordileone in SF, Archbishop Vann of Orange etc. etc. Go Pope Benedict XVI- you rock!

Henceforth I shall just refer, in passing, to “the cafeterianists.” Lower case, no “Catholic” included. That seems appropriate.:D:D:D
 
So, no more use of the term “Cafeteria Catholics” eh?
I like “selective Catholics” myself.

BTW – Catholics are not the only ones who are selective. You should spend a day with my family. We’re Jewish. We never had a Vatican II. I’m not sure who we’re going to blame for the demise of traditional Judaism. Talk about being selective. Lock yourself in a room with an Orthodox, Conservative, Reformed and Reconstructionist Jew. I’ll supply the Xanax.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
I like “selective Catholics” myself.

BTW – Catholics are not the only ones who are selective. You should spend a day with my family. We’re Jewish. We never had a Vatican II. I’m not sure who we’re going to blame for the demise of traditional Judaism. Talk about being selective. Lock yourself in a room with an Orthodox, Conservative, Reformed and Reconstructionist Jew. I’ll supply the Xanax.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
If they happen to all be Jewish mothers, there isn’t enough Xanax to be had…

It’s a reminder, tho’, that the church DOES have a lot of different menus to pick from … 6 rites major, 23 churches in one communion, 30+ different liturgical expressions of divine worship… hundreds of orders of religious, including monks, friars, and associations of clergy.

We have a lot of choice. But we’re supposed to pick our menu, and eat everything on that plate, and maybe occasionally sample from one of the others…
 
I wear a habit of armor View attachment 15559,

carry a weapon in my pocket. View attachment 15560,

and my father View attachment 15561

has friends in high places. :yup:

I have nothing to fear. :dancing:

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
Awesome! 👍

I actually carry one of those “weapons” too, wherever I go. But I can’t claim to be anywhere as good as you are; in fact, you’re a shining light on these forums. 🙂 All I meant was that, in the aftermath of President O____'s re-election, that sort of view - while soundly grounded in theology, as you point out - might get anyone branded as a L______, whether that is true or not.
 
Brother, in other Countries, SSPX Priests and laypeople are in almost every pro-life manifestation, even when “mainstream” clergy isn’t present. And not only that, but in manifestations against anticatholicism too, for example, in France and Argentina. And about social justice, well, various Traditionalists (not only SSPX) support Distributism and third way parties in Hispanic countries, from South America to Europe.

Blessings! 🙂
 
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