SSPX

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Is tht Society of St. Pius X part of the Catholic church? Are they still in communion with the Church, should a Catholic read, follow, and learn there teachings?
 
The SSPX is technically part of the Catholic Church and is not in schism. They are not heretics. And as has been covered on this website ad nauseum, you can attend an SSPX Mass to fulfill your Sunday obligation and even contribute to the collection.

However, their teachings (such as on their websites FAQ) are are very critical of the conciliar Catholic Church. While not heretical, they are disobedient. Therefore, I wouldn’t recommend reading, following, or learning their teachings.
 
Not to be disrespectful but this topic has been talked about ad nauseum with threads asking the exact same question. Please use the search feature.
 
ConstantineTG said:
This is not true
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Hi Constantine,

Which part is not true?

Every now and then I have to miss mass and the SSPX has an afternoon low mass. I’d rather attend that anytime rather than a mass at St Patrick’s, what with the tourists taking pictures and wandering around.

Wouldn’t that fulfill my obligation?

In any case OP, there are tons of posts here on the SSPX.
 
Schism is refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him. Does the SSPX’s chronic, grave, institutionalized disobedience constitute a refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff? It seems to me it does, though others have argued the contrary position. In any case if it’s so hard to tell if a group is technically in schism or not, I would give them a wide berth.

Also they administer invalid sacraments of Penance and Marriage, ordinarily at least.
 
TrueLight said:
Hi Constantine,

Which part is not true?

Every now and then I have to miss mass and the SSPX has an afternoon low mass. I’d rather attend that anytime rather than a mass at St Patrick’s, what with the tourists taking pictures and wandering around.

Wouldn’t that fulfill my obligation?

In any case OP, there are tons of posts here on the SSPX.
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Its a long discussion and I’m sure if I made my points again as I have made in the past, the usual people who think otherwise would come in and make their points and we’d go back and forth the next 5-10 pages.

Basically the SSPX does not currently have a ministry in the Church because they are suspended. It means they shouldn’t even be saying Mass at all. How can a Mass that the Church has said that it shouldn’t be taking place at all in the first place fulfill one’s obligation to the Church? 🤷
 
ConstantineTG said:
Its a long discussion and I’m sure if I made my points again as I have made in the past, the usual people who think otherwise would come in and make their points and we’d go back and forth the next 5-10 pages.

Basically the SSPX does not currently have a ministry in the Church because they are suspended. It means they shouldn’t even be saying Mass at all. How can a Mass that the Church has said that it shouldn’t be taking place at all in the first place fulfill one’s obligation to the Church? 🤷
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Alright, let’s leave it at that.
 
ConstantineTG is correct. SSPX does NOT recognize the authority of the current Holy Father, making them not a part of the Catholic Church. Any Catholic who goes to their “masses” and receives their version of Holy Communion is fooling themselves by thinking they are attending a Catholic mass. They are not.
 
Is there any sign that the Vatican may reconcile with the SSPX anytime soon?
 
ecgelhar said:
ConstantineTG is correct. SSPX does NOT recognize the authority of the current Holy Father, making them not a part of the Catholic Church. Any Catholic who goes to their “masses” and receives their version of Holy Communion is fooling themselves by thinking they are attending a Catholic mass. They are not.
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Wait, I didn’t say that. I said they are suspended, I didn’t say they do not recognize the authority of the Holy Father, nor did I say they are not a part of the Church. I want to be fair here. At this point they are part of the Catholic Church because they still recognize the authority of the Pope and the Church. Yes they are being disobedient by continuing their ministry when the Church says they have none in the Church at this moment. The Church is working with them to regularize their status. There is no formal schism as of yet, so they are Catholics, they are Catholic clergy albeit suspended from their ministry (suspended, not laicized or excommunicated).
 
ConstantineTG said:
Wait, I didn’t say that. I said they are suspended, I didn’t say they do not recognize the authority of the Holy Father, nor did I say they are not a part of the Church. I want to be fair here. At this point they are part of the Catholic Church because they still recognize the authority of the Pope and the Church. Yes they are being disobedient by continuing their ministry when the Church says they have none in the Church at this moment. The Church is working with them to regularize their status. There is no formal schism as of yet, so they are Catholics, they are Catholic clergy albeit suspended from their ministry (suspended, not laicized or excommunicated).
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From my understanding (and communication with Traditional Mass Catholics who have joined SSPX), they do not recognize all of the Holy Father’s teachings. They, for example, reject the luminous mysteries of the rosary (a minor example). There are other things as well. They do not believe that John XXIII had the authority to bring about Vatican II and, therefore, reject it. Perhaps they are not excommunicated, but they certainly love to pick and choose their doctrine. Either way, a faithful Catholic should avoid their masses since they clearly dance on a dangerous line.
 
paul11b said:
Is there any sign that the Vatican may reconcile with the SSPX anytime soon?
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Rome and the SSPX – are in the process of having discussions – to see if they can reconcile the differences – but from what I have read – it does not seem there will be any reconciliation any time soon.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Wait, I didn’t say that. I said they are suspended, I didn’t say they do not recognize the authority of the Holy Father, nor did I say they are not a part of the Church. I want to be fair here. At this point they are part of the Catholic Church because they still recognize the authority of the Pope and the Church. Yes they are being disobedient by continuing their ministry when the Church says they have none in the Church at this moment. The Church is working with them to regularize their status. There is no formal schism as of yet, so they are Catholics, they are Catholic clergy albeit suspended from their ministry (suspended, not laicized or excommunicated).
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What is particularly sad (at least to me) is that, as time goes on, more of the SSPX clergy are priests who were ordained illicitly and never had any legitimate ministry in the Church. They have spent their entire priesthood suspended. 😦
 
ecgelhar said:
From my understanding (and communication with Traditional Mass Catholics who have joined SSPX), they do not recognize all of the Holy Father’s teachings. They, for example, reject the luminous mysteries of the rosary (a minor example). There are other things as well. They do not believe that John XXIII had the authority to bring about Vatican II and, therefore, reject it. Perhaps they are not excommunicated, but they certainly love to pick and choose their doctrine. Either way, a faithful Catholic should avoid their masses since they clearly dance on a dangerous line.
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Not that I’m going to defend them. I don’t think they reject the Pope fully as sedevacantists would, but yes they do have questions and doubts about the post-Vatican II Church.

I agree with your last sentence. Valid or not, their take and view of the Church is, at this point, dangerous for faithful and obedient Catholics.
 
Corki said:
What is particularly sad (at least to me) is that, as time goes on, more of the SSPX clergy are priests who were ordained illicitly and never had any legitimate ministry in the Church. They have spent their entire priesthood suspended. 😦
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And its not as if they have no other choice. There’s always the FSSP.
 
paul11b said:
Is there any sign that the Vatican may reconcile with the SSPX anytime soon?
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There was a matter a few years ago that there were talks about reconciling with the Holy Father. The SSPX were required to write some sort of letter announcing that they desired communion with Rome again–As a response the SSPX priests and bishops have been recognized as priests and bishops. Rome did ask for a statement from the one of the Bishops to acknowledge the Holocaust (he is a staunch nonbeliever of the Holocaust) and that Bishop declined. They’re moving toward coming home, but it’s still in the works.

The SSPX are still considered Schismatic for that reason–they are not fully in line with the Church and are sedevacantists. They believe the last “true” Pope was Pius X. The Eucharist there is valid and their priests are valid, but some of their teachings are not completely in line with Rome and there are still some other problems (like the one mentioned above).

As far as being able to attend an SSPX to fulfill the obligation, I have hear that it IS acceptable, but only if there is not another Mass available (BECAUSE the Eucharist is Valid, but not licit…BIG difference…look it up if you haven’t read about it before). This gets tricky because technically if there is no Mass you can attend, technically you don’t have to attend Mass. I do however think if this is your last option, it would be acceptable–I’d rather go to a valid but illicit Mass than miss Mass altogether. I’ll go as far to say there are probably N.O. Masses that are more illicit than a SSPX Mass.
 
Immaculata90 said:
As far as being able to attend an SSPX to fulfill the obligation, I have hear that it IS acceptable, but only if there is not another Mass available (BECAUSE the Eucharist is Valid, but not licit…BIG difference…look it up if you haven’t read about it before). This gets tricky because technically if there is no Mass you can attend, technically you don’t have to attend Mass. I do however think if this is your last option, it would be acceptable–I’d rather go to a valid but illicit Mass than miss Mass altogether. I’ll go as far to say there are probably N.O. Masses that are more illicit than a SSPX Mass.
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I can’t agree with this. The Orthodox have valid priests and a valid Eucharist, but going to their Liturgy does not fulfill one’s obligation. Canon Law states that one has to go to a “Mass” of any Catholic Rite. So again the question, since they are suspended and shouldn’t be saying Mass in the first place, how Catholic is their Mass?

Even an abusive OF Mass is more licit than their Mass. Because the priest saying the OF Mass has at least faculties from the Local Ordinary to say the Mass in the first place.
 
Immaculata90 said:
There was a matter a few years ago that there were talks about reconciling with the Holy Father. The SSPX were required to write some sort of letter announcing that they desired communion with Rome again–As a response the SSPX priests and bishops have been recognized as priests and bishops. Rome did ask for a statement from the one of the Bishops to acknowledge the Holocaust (he is a staunch nonbeliever of the Holocaust) and that Bishop declined. They’re moving toward coming home, but it’s still in the works.
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The four bishops were excommicated for being ordained wthout permission from the Pope. They requested and the Pope lifted the excommunications. They are not excommunicated anymore but they have no authority. They have no sees and they can’t do anything a licit bishop could do such as Confirm or ordain. The bishop who made headlines as a reported Holocaust denier was one of the four. His views on the holocaust were completely unrelated to his excommunication or his relationship with the SSPX.

Nothing has changed with regard to the priests. They do not have any legitimate ministry in the Church. They are still vaidly ordained, however.
The SSPX are still considered Schismatic for that reason–they are not fully in line with the Church and are sedevacantists. They believe the last “true” Pope was Pius X. The Eucharist there is valid and their priests are valid, but some of their teachings are not completely in line with Rome and there are still some other problems (like the one mentioned above).
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The SSPX are not sedevacanists. That’s the SSPV. The SSPX recognize all the Popes. Nor is the SSPX schismatic. Several Vatican officials have made that clear. The current status is that of being in disobedience, not schism.
 
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