SSPX

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JReducation said:
Get a Franciscan, Dominican, Opus Dei priest, Jesuit and Benedictine into one room and lock the door. Give them a lot of paper and access to a good library. Those guys love nothing more than solving puzzles. They do this for recreation.

They wouldn’t charge much either. Religious prefer food to money. Lots and lots of pasta. 😃

Contrary to appearances, the Catholic Church is one of the most scholarly societies in the world. If I had money to bet, I would bet that there have been canon lawyers, theologians and other experts coming up with different scenarios and that there are already bound manuals for each possible outcome. I don’t know why I feel that way. Maybe because it’s my style of leadership. Whenever I’ve been in charge, I want answers to every conceivable question, before they’re asked. Then we only have to worry about the inconceivable questions. It reduces the amount of work.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
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Based on this, the military needs to return its “We’re Number 1 in planning and preparation” trophy. I had no idea the Church was this indepth and detailed.
 
Armyvet007 said:
Based on this, the military needs to return its “We’re Number 1 in planning and preparation” trophy. I had no idea the Church was this indepth and detailed.
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It’s kind of funny because for all the yapping the laity does, it’s the least on-the-ball of all.

Did I say that?! :eek:😛
 
jwinch2 said:
No. Opus Dei must have permission to come into a Diocese from the local Bishop. Consecrated religious operate the same way. For example, if the Dominicans wish to come into a diocese somewhere they are not already present, they must request permission from the Bishop. Once they are in, my understanding is that he cannot suppress them, but to get started, they need his approval.
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I didn’t know that about Opus Dei. I should know that, because I was educated by them in post graduate school, not that it shows. They were geniuses and I’m just . . . well you guys can tell 😃

The following must ask the bishop for permission to enter his church:


  1. *]Religious
    *]Societies of Apostolic Life
    *]Secular Orders
    *]Lay apostolates
    *]Secular Institutes of Consecrated Life
    *]Hermits

    Any deacon, priest or bishop from another diocese who comes to stay, such as retirement, must ask for faculties.

    I know this, because the FFV just went through it. When you ask, you must describe your ministry in great detail. It is important to bishops not to have people stepping all over each other. That’s rarely a problem in large dioceses, but is in small ones.

    The bishop can respond in one of several ways. He can grant you canonical status. If he does that, he cannot suppress you. Only the Holy See can do that. He can offer you his blessing to give it a shot and see how it goes. It’s his call to make. Remember, “Where there’s the bishop, there’s the Church.”

    For the sake of argument, let’s say that he offers his blessing to give it a try and you really want canonical status, you don’t have to accept it. You can go to another bishop in another diocese. Most institutes accept the challenge.

    It’s actually a change that really helps. At least that’s the way that I feel about it. You have to prove yourself. You can’t take anything for granted. You promised to deliver something to God’s people and you’re being watched to see if you really mean what you say. I don’t find it bothersome at all. I find it exciting and I feel that it raises the bar. I know that if I and my institute deliver, the canonical recognition will come. At the end of the day, to me it’s more important that I fulfill my mission. The canonical erection in a diocese guarantees my stability, but it does not guarantee my fidelity to what Christ has called me to be and to do. Even I can’t guarantee fidelity. I can only offer to try with the grace of God.

    If it is the will of God, He will find a way for an institute to serve in a particular area. If it does not happen, maybe God is not too interested in that right now. He may prefer that we be someplace else.

    Fraternally,

    Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
JReducation said:
The real issue for Catholics is not what the SSPX or any other writer says about Vatican I, II or III. The real issue for us is what does the Church want us to do?

Once we know what the Holy See wants us to do, we must go with it.

If it wants us to throw a welcome home party for the SSPX, we do that.

If it wants more from the SSPX and sends the document back, we wait.

If it decides that this is over and there is no more to say, we accept that.

Unless the Vatican asks us to commit a crime, which I doubt, there is not much to be said at this point, but wait and pray.

We will not get to heaven on our opinions, but only on our obedience.

Why do people need to keep discussing this position and that position at this point? I’m truly confused on why such discussion is so important this week, even to the original writers cited.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
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Why do people want to discuss this? Why do they want to discuss any topic? It is on their minds and they feel it is something very important. Granted that nothng that is posted here is going to change the situation in any way or speed up the results. But this is very important to a lot of us. A lot of people have been praying about this for a long, long time, and it seems now that prayers are being answered. Discussing it helps us deal with it and better understand the situation.

Br. JR, as you know probably better than I, we live in an extremely evil world that is very anti-Catholic. Catholics need to be united to one another for support and to fight the evil in this world. The SSPX are very devout Catholics who can be a real support to the rest of the Church, and we to them. I feel so badly that they are out there on their own when it would be so much better for all of us to be united.

We are discussing this because we need to be discussing it. Pure and simple.

I also think it is very safe to say that Holy Spirit would like all of us to be united. Whether it is possible is another question, and that is what we are all waiting for.
 
JReducation said:
I didn’t know that about Opus Dei. I should know that, because I was educated by them in post graduate school, not that it shows. They were geniuses and I’m just . . . well you guys can tell
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You didn’t? Seriously? I thought it was YOU who told me that… Now, where the heck did I hear it then? :confused:

Also, to clarify it is my understanding that Opus Dei does not need permission to enter a diocese, but that the Priestly Society of the Holy Cross does. I probably should have been more specific on that.

However, now that you tell me that you did not say that, I find myself questioning my earlier assertion. 🤷

Perhaps someone will come along and re-correct my correction…
 
jwinch2 said:
You didn’t? Seriously? I thought it was YOU who told me that… Now, where the heck did I hear it then? :confused:

Also, to clarify it is my understanding that Opus Dei does not need permission to enter a diocese, but that the Priestly Society of the Holy Cross does. I probably should have been more specific on that.

However, now that you tell me that you did not say that, I find myself questioning my earlier assertion. 🤷

Perhaps someone will come along and re-correct my correction…
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From the Opus Dei website: opusdei.us/sec.php?s=494

“As part of the Catholic Church, Opus Dei works closely with the local Catholic bishop, whose consent is required before an Opus Dei center can be set up in his diocese, and who is regularly informed of Opus Dei’s activities there. The relationship of lay members of Opus Dei with their parish and their bishop is the same as that of other Catholics. Like other Catholics they are bound by diocesan regulations and follow the teachings and guidelines of the bishop, and participate fully in the life of the parish according to their circumstances. Their commitments to Opus Dei relate to areas, such as spiritual development and apostolic commitment, in which all members of the faithful are free to follow whichever path to holiness they choose.”

More here: opusdei.org/art.php?p=25474 which is more specific to Opus Dei.

I expect that if the SSPX ends up getting a prelature instead some other sort of structure like an Ordinariate, it will be different in some respects from this one simply because the structure of the SSPX is different from the structure of the Opus Dei in many ways.
 
iloveangels said:
From the Opus Dei website: opusdei.us/sec.php?s=494

“As part of the Catholic Church, Opus Dei works closely with the local Catholic bishop, whose consent is required before an Opus Dei center can be set up in his diocese, and who is regularly informed of Opus Dei’s activities there. The relationship of lay members of Opus Dei with their parish and their bishop is the same as that of other Catholics. Like other Catholics they are bound by diocesan regulations and follow the teachings and guidelines of the bishop, and participate fully in the life of the parish according to their circumstances. Their commitments to Opus Dei relate to areas, such as spiritual development and apostolic commitment, in which all members of the faithful are free to follow whichever path to holiness they choose.”
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Gracias!
 
iloveangels said:
From the Opus Dei website: opusdei.us/sec.php?s=494

“As part of the Catholic Church, Opus Dei works closely with the local Catholic bishop, whose consent is required before an Opus Dei center can be set up in his diocese, and who is regularly informed of Opus Dei’s activities there. The relationship of lay members of Opus Dei with their parish and their bishop is the same as that of other Catholics. Like other Catholics they are bound by diocesan regulations and follow the teachings and guidelines of the bishop, and participate fully in the life of the parish according to their circumstances. Their commitments to Opus Dei relate to areas, such as spiritual development and apostolic commitment, in which all members of the faithful are free to follow whichever path to holiness they choose.”

More here: opusdei.org/art.php?p=25474 which is more specific to Opus Dei.

I expect that if the SSPX ends up getting a prelature instead some other sort of structure like an Ordinariate, it will be different in some respects from this one simply because the structure of the SSPX is different from the structure of the Opus Dei in many ways.
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Well that certainly answers that. Once permission has been given in a diocese can a future Bishop take it away?
 
Brooklyn said:
Why do people want to discuss this? Why do they want to discuss any topic? It is on their minds and they feel it is something very important. Granted that nothng that is posted here is going to change the situation in any way or speed up the results. But this is very important to a lot of us. A lot of people have been praying about this for a long, long time, and it seems now that prayers are being answered. Discussing it helps us deal with it and better understand the situation.

Br. JR, as you know probably better than I, we live in an extremely evil world that is very anti-Catholic. Catholics need to be united to one another for support and to fight the evil in this world. The SSPX are very devout Catholics who can be a real support to the rest of the Church, and we to them. I feel so badly that they are out there on their own when it would be so much better for all of us to be united.

We are discussing this because we need to be discussing it. Pure and simple.

I also think it is very safe to say that Holy Spirit would like all of us to be united. Whether it is possible is another question, and that is what we are all waiting for.
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I agree with the fact that most people who associate with SSPX are very dear people. I also believe that there are some wonderful priests in the SSPX. One is a good friend of mine. But this is exactly why I raise the question, because he and I ran into each other today. While bloggers and other internet sites are abuzz about this, Father and I were talking about fishing and the best bait for catfish.

We were both in the same place. There is nothing to say that hasn’t been said. We’re going to have to be patient and wait. We can sit there and repeat what has been said, but that would not make things happen faster or differently than the way the Holy Father wants.

I remember when I was novice master a few years back. It was the year that Bl. John Paul II died. After the funeral, the Catholic world was filled with speculation about the coming conclave. One day, I walked into the community room and the novices were into the speculation. I asked one of them, “Brother, how seriously do you take this?” He said, “Very seriously, Father.” (I’m not a priest, but I was superior). I asked another novice. “And you Brother, how important is this to you?” He responded in a similar fashion. “Very important,Father.”

Then I said to the four of them, "How long have you been sitting here talking about this. “About 45 minutes,” one said.

I thought about it and then asked, “How long do you spend in your examination of conscience at night?” The answers ranged from 15 minutes to 25.

So I smiled and said to them, “You know, your soul is much more important than the papal election. Tonight, everyone is to remain in chapel after compline for a one hour examination of conscience.”

Today, those men are getting ready to make final vows this summer. I will never forget that evening and I’m very proud of those guys too. They’re very faithful men. Right now, they’re probably sound asleep, while I’m up with my usual insomnia. 🤷

PS. Give my regards to Brooklyn. My first assignment was in Brooklyn.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
Moore11 said:
Well that certainly answers that. Once permission has been given in a diocese can a future Bishop take it away?
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If you read my post above, you’ll find that if the institute is canonically erected, only the Holy Father can suppress it. No future bishop can shut it down. That’s why some bishops choose to give a blessing to try, before giving a formal canonical status.

However, I don’t know if the simple blessing to give it a shot, can be used with a prelature. It may not be, since a prelature has many of the features of a diocese. It may have to be yeah or nay. That’s me guessing here, based on what little logic I can muster at this time of night. 😛

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
Armyvet007 said:
Based on this, the military needs to return its “We’re Number 1 in planning and preparation” trophy. I had no idea the Church was this indepth and detailed.
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Actually, the military borrowed a lot from religious life. At one time, there were military orders who in turn trained civilian armies. Much of the discipline found in the military has trickled down from monks, friars, military orders and Jesuits. I’ll give you a few examples.
  1. We never leave our people behind.
That’s the first rule of the mendicant. They were itinerant missionaries. No matter how dangerous, they never left a brother behind.
  1. Boot camp
Novitiate. You were dismantled and reconstructed. The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius are based on this principle.
  1. Record keeping
Monastic libraries. Most of Europe’s history is found in monastic libraries
  1. Planning and preparation
    Foreign missions. Every detail was anticipated and a plan was in place before hand. The Jesuits and Dominicans were masters at this. The rest of us learned from them.
There is a lot more that the armed forces inherited from the Church. We have made a significant contribution to the world, more than people know. That’s why I often get sad when I hear some lay people talk about religious especially. It’s not that we want to be thanked. But we are human beings. We didn’t grow on trees. Like all human beings, when some Catholic laymen pour so much admiration into the secular sphere, be it government, military, art, science, medicine, architecture, writing, math and more, and then they speak of us religious as if we were a nuisance in their lives, it hurts. We know what those brothers, friars and monks who came before us contributed to these fields and we know how hard we struggle to continue giving something to make the world a little more like heaven.

We make mistakes. Hopefully, most of us, when we’re called on them, are quick to acknowledge the value of the correction, apologize and try to rectify our mistakes.

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV 🙂
 
ProVobis said:
Not to mention priests can’t say more than two Masses per day except by special permission from the bishop. You’re going to have to find a way to get more than 25 people to regularly attend the EF every Sunday. My pastor found out by switching the times for the Spanish and EF Masses, he was able to increase attendance at both so it can be done.
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I keep hearing this but in the RC diocese here, priests normally say 3 or more Masses. Could be a diocesan rule. With the shortage of priests here in North America, its not uncommon anymore to break this “2-a-day” rule.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I keep hearing this but in the RC diocese here, priests normally say 3 or more Masses. Could be a diocesan rule. With the shortage of priests here in North America, its not uncommon anymore to break this “2-a-day” rule.
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I understand it’s the bishop’s call on this. I know many priests who say Mass in more than one parish on a Sunday too. I imagine they keep the same sermon though, as that is where most of their preparation takes place.
 
Megan7 said:
😛 LOL!

But, you said we would know within a few hours when everything came out, remember?😉
So, I have not slept since…waiting & waiting…:p;)😃

:
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I feel so goofy now, Brother JR, you’re right. Humor goes with humility.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I keep hearing this but in the RC diocese here, priests normally say 3 or more Masses. Could be a diocesan rule. With the shortage of priests here in North America, its not uncommon anymore to break this “2-a-day” rule.
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That doesn’t mean the bishop hasn’t approved it. I don’t think every priest needs a specific approval from the bishop every Sunday. 😛

I’m sure that in certain dioceses the bishop has done the math on how many priests he has, how many faithful, size of churches, travel distances etc and approved the parish schedules that mean that Father Z says 2 Masses in English at parish X and 1 Mass in Spanish at parish Y every Sunday.
 
I believe that we tend to forget what Paul taught us. Christ redeemed us through obedience that led to the cross.

He didn’t go to the cross because he wanted to show support for capital punishment. It was pure obedience.

Sin entered the world through disobedience and man is redeemed through perfect obedience.

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV 🙂
 
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