SSPX

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Ottoviani said:
Good question.
I know a great SSPX priest who ministers here and I would love to to confession to him next week.
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I think it is still up to the local bishop to grant faculties to hear confessions within his territorial diocese, personal prelature or not.
 
JReducation said:
If I’m not mistaken, none of the Transalpine Redemptorists had been Redemptorists.
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Father Michael Mary, at least, was a Redemptorist Father.
JReducation said:
When they said that they could not accept the constitution …
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To clarify slightly, they could not accept the current Redemptorist constitutions. They have no problem with the constitutions of St. Alphonsus and, in fact, their current constitutions are closely modeled on the “original” Redemptorist constitutions.
 
anp1215 said:
If this is true, I can’t even express my excitement over the implications this will have, especially for me personally. I would go from having the nearest accessible EF Mass 40 minutes away to 10 minutes away!
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Me too! I’m dealing with the same mileage you are. I’ve never attended the farther one, and I’m thrilled to think I might be able to attend the nearer one 😃
 
anodos said:
Me too! I’m dealing with the same mileage you are. I’ve never attended the farther one, and I’m thrilled to think I might be able to attend the nearer one 😃
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I attended an EF Low Mass at the University of St. Thomas in Houston one Sunday. It was not a regularly scheduled Mass (they do have a regularly scheduled EF on Fridays though) but a visiting priest was in and agreed to say it for us. There were only I believe 6 of us there. It was nice. Very peaceful.

I have wanted to attend a High Mass but not really willing to drive to the nearest one. So to suddenly have one available 10 minutes away would be so cool!
 
Looking at the posts of the people who read the news…did we all cry? I know I did!

I hope this is true, I so truly do! I am PRAYING!
 
Guys, try not to get your hopes up TOO high (hard, I know!) Until we hear from Rome herself, this may be nothing more than a rumor.

Let us be patient, but we should continue to pray!
 
The_Scott said:
Guys, try not to get your hopes up TOO high (hard, I know!) Until we hear from Rome herself, this may be nothing more than a rumor.

Let us be patient, but we should continue to pray!
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Exactly. Or as they say in Pope Benedict’s Deutschland, “genau”!
Long live the Pope!
 
Big_Feet said:
So true. The link is to a mere blog. By no means a reputable news source.
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Are you talking about that particular blog? They’re not exactly renowned for spreading errors either. Fr Z blogged about it before the link given here too - but then I wouldn’t pick you out as a Rorate fan if I had to guess.
 
mattkubes said:
Are you talking about that particular blog? They’re not exactly renowned for spreading errors either. Fr Z blogged about it before the link given here too - but then I wouldn’t pick you out as a Rorate fan if I had to guess.
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It’s not a Rorate story anyway, it’s from La Stampa ( Rorate regularly reposts stuff from La Stampa) which is hardly considered to be some radial source ( well except by some people).
 
If it’s true, religious superiors and bishops will know in about four hours. The Vatican’s bulletin comes out at about 7:00 AM Eastern Time. Just because it’s not mentioned in the bulletin, does not mean that it’s not true. The document needs the countersignature of the Holy Father. He may want to wait for the Sacred Congregation for the Faith to read it. It’s all uncertain at this point. We just have to be patient.

However, for the naysayers who don’t trust Brother, I remember him saying that the Vatican would not be making any announcements until the earliest on Wed. What day is tomorrow? 😃
JustaServant said:
Expect the liberals to go ballistic.
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They will have to learn to obey like everyone else. I disagree with the SSPX on the location of Rome; but it’s not for me to decide its status or to have any feelings about it whatsoever. If the Holy Father says that the SSPX response is satisfactory, then it is satisfactory. This conversation is over. Franciscans do not get too riled up about these things. Whatever the pope says, that’s what goes. The liberals may need to learn this, just as much as the Traditionalists. If they whine, they’ll get over it.
The_Curt_Jester said:
If this is true, it’ll be a breath of fresh air for the Church. Liberals will be holding their breath to avoid inhaling it!
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This is not about factions in the Church. On the contrary. It’s about unification of a family. It’s not a time to be beaming over the possibility that liberals may be weeping and gnashing their teeth.

Let us not forget that that every man whom I consider to be imperfect is far more perfect than I am. He deserves to be invited to the table as well.
Cecil_Corn said:
If this is true, I wonder if the Society priests will be granted faculties immediately and before the details are ironed out?
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That can play itself out in one of several ways. It’s really up to the Holy Father.
  1. He can grant them faculties, which would be grandfathering them in. From this point forward, they go through the local bishop
  2. He can wait to create the prelature, if that’s what it’s going to be. Then grant them faculties only within the prelature
  3. He can wait to create the prelature and let the prelate negotiate with the bishops of each diocese where they are present.
There is never a time frame for any of this.
wasserfall said:
Father Michael Mary, at least, was a Redemptorist Father.
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I did not know that. Thank you. I really like him too. He’s very humble.
To clarify slightly, they could not accept the current Redemptorist constitutions. They have no problem with the constitutions of St. Alphonsus and, in fact, their current constitutions are closely modeled on the “original” Redemptorist constitutions.
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The problem was that the constitution that St. Alphonsus wrote is no longer legal. It was abrogated by the Redemptorists. This is the part that many people don’t understand. Congregations do not have static rules as do orders. They have constitutions. The reason is twofold. a) They cannot have the honor of a rule, because they do not make solemn vows. They make simple vows, which is a lower degree of consecration. b) The Church deliberately set it up this way to allow them the flexibility to change using the democratic method and to own property if the so choose to do. They wrote their current constitutions, voted on them and then submitted them to the Holy Father for ratification. Once those constitutions are ratified, the previous one is automatically abrogated. It’s like a nation. You can’t have two constitutions.

I understand that they wanted to go back to the original constitution of St. Alphonsus. That’s why they could not be Redemptorists.

Their situation is very different from an order. The Augustinians, Carmelites, Franciscans and Benedictines cannot change their rule, even by democratic process. The only thing we can do is write constitutions that address what the founder does not address in the rule, things that he never foresaw. What’s in the rule must stay and remains binding until the pope says otherwise. The Redemptorists have the freedom from a rule. St. Alphonsus deliberately founded them as a congregation to give them greater freedom in terms of owning property and self government. That freedom comes with simple vows.

It stands to reason that if they want to replicate the original constitution, they have to start another community, but cannot call it Redemptorist. It all worked out very well for them. They are really such nice men that I can see them being welcomed everywhere. They are gentle souls.

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV 🙂
 
help me to understand please.

SSPX is a sedevacantist group?

they’re reconciling? so they’re now under the Pope?

How large a group are they?

Are there a lot more like them?

Thank you
 
itullian said:
help me to understand please.

SSPX is a sedevacantist group?
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They were never sedevacantist. They are a traditionalist society of clerics and religious. Their leadership was excommunicated because the founder ordained four bishops without permission. Canon Law considers that to be a crime and it carries the penalty of excommunication.

Over the years, they attracted more and more lay people with Traditionalist sentiments. Unfortunately for them, they also attracted some very angry people. This small crowd tainted their relationship with the rest of the Church.

What had begun as a legal case concerning the ordination of four bishops, turned into a 25-year war of arrogance, inuendos, accusations, confrontations and almost competition between the Traditionalists and the mainstream Catholics. People on both sides have acted shamefully.

This pulled the SSPS further and further away. Many analysts believe that the laity on both sides had more to do with the separation than the SSPX clergy and the mainstream clergy. One anthropologist that I read said that the bishops and religious leaders get most of their information from the people, which probably true. The stuff that was carried back and forth by the people can certainly influence the thinking of the leadership on both sides. Only history will tell.

In any case, a few years ago, Pope Benedict lifted the excommunication of the four living bishops, but not the founder, Archbishop Lefebvre. I believe that this is going to be a sticky issue that will have to handled with great diplomacy. The SSPX considers the Archbishop a saint and the Vatican sees him as a man who died outside the Church. I have no idea how they’re going to handle that one.

In any case, talks began to bring them all home. Once the excommunication was lifted, the only thing left to do was to grant faculties to their priests. In order to get these faculties, the Vatican insisted that the Society had to agree to certain points. We still don’t know what those were. Everything on the blogs is speculation. The Preamble, as the document is called, has not been made available to the public.
they’re reconciling? so they’re now under the Pope?
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If it is true that they have agreed to the Vatican’s demands, then the rift is over. They will be required to obey like any other group of priests, religious and laity. There will be no passes. That has a tough side and a good side. The tough side, no more passes. The good side, unity with other Catholics.
How large a group are they?
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They’re tiny. They have about 550 priests and about 150 religious brothers and maybe another 150 religious sisters. By comparison to groups like Franciscans, Dominicans, Augustinians, and Salesians, this is a province to the rest of us (a region).

Because they are secular priests, they are not obliged to live in community. They can spread out more thinly than religious who have to live in communities of at least three. It gives the impression that there are many of them.
Are there a lot more like them?
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I know there are more, but I have no idea how many groups. Maybe someone else can chime in with that answer.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
What are the doctrinal issues the Vatican has concerns with regarding the SSPX?
 
I believe it is mostly a question of authority, not doctrine.

Also, it is hopefully no longer anything at all!
 
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