We’ll just have to wait and see what they manage to work out. We can’t tell from here how it’s going to work.
A prelature helps contain the SSPX and its followers. It’s actually good for everyone. The SSPX clergy will have a space from which to minister and will also have boundaries that they cannot cross. This was lacking. They had neither a canonical place nor canonical boundaries.
They are in the process of seeking approval from the bishop, but do not have it yet. I don’t know about constitutions.
I suppose informally they can call themselves Franciscans; I mean anyone can just like anyone can wear a tau. But they’re not officially Franciscans til they’re approved or recognized by the diocese in some way, I think.
Can you explain what the “Brothers of the SSPX” and the “Sisters of the SSPX” that are described on this webpage are then?
They are not Franciscan and they don’t need to join the Franciscans, because they seem to have an identity and a rule of their own. See here.
Don’t anybody throw shoes and tomatoes at me now, but this may be a devotional group or an altar society or something. It really doesn’t have the marks of the Franciscan Third Order.They are not Franciscan and they don’t need to join the Franciscans, because they seem to have an identity and a rule of their own. See here.
There is no mention of Francis in this rule an no mention of the Franciscan values. It’s a very different approach to the spiritual life.
No, no one can call themselves Franciscan without the permission of the local bishop. To call yourself Franciscan implies that you’re Catholic. No group or organization can call itself Catholic without the permission of the local bishop. Individuals are Catholic, groups, associations, institutions and organizations are not Catholic until the bishop says they are. They cannot use any of the names the are properly identified with Catholics:
Franciscan, Dominican, Benedictine, Jesuit, Carmelite and so forth.
In the case of the SSPX, it would not be out of the question for Bishop Fellay to grant them permission to start a Secular Franciscan fraternity; but the documents don’t suggest that’s the case. It suggest that they are the SSPX Third Order, which would be a public association of the secular faithful that is dependent on the SSPX clergy and shares its mission and spirituality.
The whole clerical part would not sit well with the OFS or any of the other Franciscan communities.
**
The priest in charge of the Third Order in the district receives enrollments, names his assistants, and calls meeting of his council and general meetings to encourage members to remain active and vigilant in the work of their sanctification and that of others. **
There is nothing illegal or immoral about this, but a priest with that much authority over the third order does not go over very well in the Franciscan tradition. In the Franciscan tradition, everyone is elected, not appointed and no friar may hold office outside of his order. Animation is the role of the Minister, who must always be secular.
Who said that they wanted to be Franciscan? I’m confused on that point.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, FFV
If they’re in the process, all they would need to call themselves Franciscan is a statement from the bishop giving them permission to try and raise this association. A letter from the bishop using the name Franciscan implies that he acknowledges their existence and has no objection. They’re not part of the diocese, but they are allowed to try and grow in that diocese. If they do, eventually, they could become part of the diocese.
This is true, but the fact of the matter on the street is that people do this stuff–call themselves Franciscan and Carmelite and all that when they’re not approved. When donating and when joining, people should always check the facts and read the fine print, kindly, nicely and with a smile, but read it nevertheless.…
No, no one can call themselves Franciscan without the permission of the local bishop. To call yourself Franciscan implies that you’re Catholic. No group or organization can call itself Catholic without the permission of the local bishop. Individuals are Catholic, groups, associations, institutions and organizations are not Catholic until the bishop says they are. They cannot use any of the names the are properly identified with Catholics:
Franciscan, Dominican, Benedictine, Jesuit, Carmelite and so forth.
…
Br. JR, FFV
You’re right about that. A lot of times, people don’t know the rules either. They create little pious groups and give themselves a name. The word that you want to avoid, until you get permission, is Catholic. Don’t ever call your group Catholic, without the written permission of the bishop.
Agree. And much of the time this kind of labeling and symbol-wearing doesn’t do a lot of harm, but it can. I’ve seen people hurt and confused when they thought they were involved with something and it turned out to be something else.You’re right about that. A lot of times, people don’t know the rules either. They create little pious groups and give themselves a name. The word that you want to avoid, until you get permission, is Catholic. Don’t ever call your group Catholic, without the written permission of the bishop.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, FFV
Confusing, isn’t it? The SSPX has a lot of categories of people in loosely affiliated organizations that will somehow need to be regularized, probably on a case-by-case basis. It will be interesting to see how it all comes out.
Confessions are not a separate manner. As long as their situation is regularized and the bishop overseeing them gives them the faculties and the context is that they can do so within the area they operate in, then those are valid confessions. For example, the Ukrainian Catholic priests do not need faculties from the Roman Catholic Archbishop to hear confessions from Roman Catholics. They have faculties from their own Bishop whose territory overlaps with the RC Bishop. I can see a personal prelature in the same way. The Church would have to give the SSPX the authority to define their authority and they would do so for every parish, or maybe just give a blanket authority to their priests if that’s what having a prelature means. We’d have to see what the limits and restrictions are of a prelature if and when it becomes official.
If it’s a personal prelature, wouldn’t the jurisdiction come from the Pope? And since he has universal jurisdiction, then wouldn’t that dispense with the need to receive jurisdiction from the Ordinary?
Honestly I’m not even sure how this would work. I guess wait and see. Would it mean that all their priests have universal jurisdiction? Or would they set limits to each chapel/parish for the priests there? Can they just enter any diocese? There’s so many questions here. But given that they are not under the local RC diocese, for sure their faculties will not come from him. Unless this is like what happens with clergy of Religious Orders who need faculties from the Local Ordinary to be able to hear confessions of the laity in that diocese.
Good question. Though its not about “prodigal son” situation, I can think of one concrete example where the local SSPX chapel did not treat the local Bishop to kindly. If they are regularized, I wonder what will be the response of the Bishop. Can he still kick them out? Or at the very least, can he ask for those priests to be reassigned, perhaps the next set of priests will be much better.
The example you give is priests in a different rite. Latin Rite priests would need faculties from the diocesesan ordinary for confession and confirmation. A personal prelature does not give them their own rite. Canon Law would still apply.
Not really. Its not about rites but rather territories. For example, there are 14 Churches in the Byzantine Rite, many of whom have overlapping territories. Essentially a prelature is a sui juris within a sui juris, if I understand it correctly. They are a different authority that Local Ordinaries and thus can and would have territories that overlap the Local Ordinaries’.
I think St. Francis would roll over in his grave if he read how they speak about the pope on this blog. If there is one thing that rings very true of St. Francis is that he renewed the Church in communion with her governance. He was not blind to the human weaknesses in the Church, but we never see or hear him speak of the clergy and hierarchy’s weaknesses. On the contrary, what we see is Francis calling all people to conversion to the Gospel. His call was so passionate and sincere, that even clergy and prelates were pulled into the spirit of conversion. One of the first was Cardinal Hugolino who became Pope Gregory IX.
If you look at the quote that I poster earlier from the Code of Canon Law, the rules for the prelature come from the pope. However, the code does say that the prelature needs permission from the local bishop to enter his diocese.