St. Andrew's Catholic Parish will carry banner in Portland's Pride Parade

[LisaA]

He asked them?

And why was their so-called mission (that you quoted in another post) allowed to stand?

I understand your point. I think he requested that they not participate as a Parish. Apparently this defiance is recent news but as you said, that mission makes no reference to Christ or the Church. It could be the mission statement for the Unitarians for that matter. SOOO depressing.

Rumor has it that Archbishop Sample was appointed to clean house in Portland. He’s only been here a couple of months but one of his recent acts was to name a new Vicar General. I think he is aware that Portland is known for being slightly to the Left of Mao. It’s known as Moscow on the Willamette or People’s Republic of Portland. Unfortunately this has invaded everything from City Hall to the Church. Ugh…

Lisa

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Here’s their mission!

St. Andrew is a faith community baptized into one body, which honors and celebrates diversity. We welcome and include persons of every color, language, ethnicity, origin, ability, sexual orientation, gender expression, marital status, and life situation.

Nothing about celebrating CHRIST and the CHURCH…God help us.

Lisa

Maybe you missed all the stuff that came after that:

"Parish Mission

St. Andrew Parish recognizes that, as Jesus Christ was sent by God:
To bring the good news to the poor,
To proclaim liberty to captives,
And to the blind new sight,
To set the downtrodden free,
To proclaim the Lord’s year of favor,” (Luke 4:18)
So it is the mission of St. Andrew Parish to be a visible presence of Christ in our culturally and racially diverse neighborhood, rooted in the Gospel and nurtured by liturgy, prayer, and the community of faith. As such we commit ourselves to work with the poor, the powerless, and the oppressed for the liberation of all; to seek justice, compassion, and peace in our lives, community and world; and to proclaim and celebrate God’s unconditional love for all."

standrewchurch.com

 

[holyfamily1]

I’m going to go out on a limb and guess they don’t offer the TLM at that parish.

I was thinking that too…

 

[LisaA]

*O’Donovan relayed the message that individuals could walk in the parade but that the archbishop did not want St. Andrew’s members to walk as a community. *

Ok, I don’t want to misinterpret this, so I’ll ask this question:

Is this saying that the Archbishop is allowing/supporting individual CATHOLICS to walk in the GAY parade?

I think that prohibiting them, as individuals, would have Constitutional ramifications. As American citizens they have freedom of expression, association, etc. So I think that would be way beyond the scope of his authority.

However it’s very reasonable to ask them not to scandalize others by proclaiming the PARISH and therefore the Church approves.

Archbishop Sample is new. I suspect he had no idea what he was going to face here other than rampant secularization.

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

Maybe you missed all the stuff that came after that:

"Parish Mission

St. Andrew Parish recognizes that, as Jesus Christ was sent by God:
To bring the good news to the poor,
To proclaim liberty to captives,
And to the blind new sight,
To set the downtrodden free,
To proclaim the Lord’s year of favor,” (Luke 4:18)
So it is the mission of St. Andrew Parish to be a visible presence of Christ in our culturally and racially diverse neighborhood, rooted in the Gospel and nurtured by liturgy, prayer, and the community of faith. As such we commit ourselves to work with the poor, the powerless, and the oppressed for the liberation of all; to seek justice, compassion, and peace in our lives, community and world; and to proclaim and celebrate God’s unconditional love for all."

standrewchurch.com

What comes first? Worship of Christ or the god of diversity? Where is their emphasis on the Sacraments? Note the second reference to diversity. I think it’s quite clear where their priorities lie. The defiance of the Archbishop’s request is another bit of evidence where they think they owe their loyalty and it’s not the Magisterium.

Lisa

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

What comes first? Worship of Christ or the god of diversity? Where is their emphasis on the Sacraments? Note the second reference to diversity. I think it’s quite clear where their priorities lie. The defiance of the Archbishop’s request is another bit of evidence where they think they owe their loyalty and it’s not the Magisterium.

Lisa

People are getting all worked up over what amounts to a simple disagreement on how to minister to LGBT people. If 8 in 10 LGBT people believe they are unwelcome in the Catholic Church then the traditional strategy is clearly not working. I think people need to look at the what the results of the effort over the last 17 years have been instead of immediately casting aspersions on the parishioners and the priest. I don’t know what those results have been, i.e. how many LGBT people have converted to Catholicism, but I do know that you don’t get bodies in the pews by bludgeoning people with a Catechism.

 

[Pulvis]

I have to assume that the Priests and Parish Council at St. Andrews missed this:
Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Romans; Ch. 1

"[21] Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God, or given thanks; but became vain in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened. [22] For professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. [23] And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts, and of creeping things. [24] Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness, to dishonour their own bodies among themselves. [25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

[26] For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [27] And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. [28] And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers, [30] Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

[31] Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy. [32] Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them."

Seems pretty clear to me.

Scripture Quote from drbo.org/index.htm

 

[Lucky7]

People are getting all worked up over what amounts to a simple disagreement on how to minister to LGBT people. If 8 in 10 LGBT people believe they are unwelcome in the Catholic Church then the traditional strategy is clearly not working. I think people need to look at the what the results of the effort over the last 17 years have been instead of immediately casting aspersions on the parishioners and the priest. I don’t know what those results have been, i.e. how many LGBT people have converted to Catholicism, but I do know that you don’t get bodies in the pews by bludgeoning people with a Catechism.

Walking in a parade that supports the gay and lesbian lifestyle (ie. supporting grave sin) goes against Church teaching.

 

[LisaA]

People are getting all worked up over what amounts to a simple disagreement on how to minister to LGBT people. If 8 in 10 LGBT people believe they are unwelcome in the Catholic Church then the traditional strategy is clearly not working. I think people need to look at the what the results of the effort over the last 17 years have been instead of immediately casting aspersions on the parishioners and the priest. I don’t know what those results have been, i.e. how many LGBT people have converted to Catholicism, but I do know that you don’t get bodies in the pews by bludgeoning people with a Catechism.

No, people are “all worked up” over scandal and disobedience. You’ve been on CAF to know what the Church as to say about people with SSA. Certainly care and compassion as with any child of God, but there is nothing about promoting a homosexual lifestyle, defying your Bishop’s request that you not lead others to scandal and compromise the Church.

No one is “bludgeoning” people with the Catechism. We have very clear teaching on the subject and for individuals to claim they know more than the Bishop is not only arrogant but irresponsible to those who may not know better about what the Church teaches on the subject. As you might have read, the Archbishop did not tell people to “bludgeon” anyone nor did he threaten those who wished, as individuals, to express their opinion. However when you make a statement as a Parish that you don’t care what the Catechism says or what the Archbishop says or the Pope says, it’s really a scandal.

Lisa

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

No, people are “all worked up” over scandal and disobedience. You’ve been on CAF to know what the Church as to say about people with SSA. Certainly care and compassion as with any child of God, but there is nothing about promoting a homosexual lifestyle, defying your Bishop’s request that you not lead others to scandal and compromise the Church.

I haven’t seen evidence that the parishioners are “promoting a homosexual lifestyle.” They go to this event, participate in the parade, and set up a booth to show that LGBT people are welcome to attend St. Andrews and to engage in community outreach. If Jesus could spend copious amounts of time among sinners in order to minister and not be “scandalized” by it then why can’t normal people?

No one is “bludgeoning” people with the Catechism. We have very clear teaching on the subject and for individuals to claim they know more than the Bishop is not only arrogant but irresponsible to those who may not know better about what the Church teaches on the subject.

I think that the true point of contention between the parish and the Archbishop is that they may believe that local parishioners, who have been doing this for 17 years, know what methods of ministering to LGBT people in their area work better than someone who just entered from stage left five months ago; even if he is an Archbishop.

However when you make a statement as a Parish that you don’t care what the Catechism says or what the Archbishop says or the Pope says, it’s really a scandal.

I haven’t seen them make such a statement.

 

[bsroufek]

If your eye, hand or foot offends you, cut if off and throw it away. Better to enter Heaven without them than to go to [Hell].

 

[LisaA]

I haven’t seen evidence that the parishioners are “promoting a homosexual lifestyle.” They go to this event, participate in the parade, and set up a booth to show that LGBT people are welcome to attend St. Andrews and to engage in community outreach. If Jesus could spend copious amounts of time among sinners in order to minister and not be “scandalized” by it then why can’t normal people?

I think that the true point of contention between the parish and the Archbishop is that they may believe that local parishioners, who have been doing this for 17 years, know what methods of ministering to LGBT people in their area work better than someone who just entered from stage left five months ago; even if he is an Archbishop.

I haven’t seen them make such a statement.

Right…nothing about promoting a homosexual lifestyle by participating in a Gay Pride Parade with a banner carrying your Parish’s name

Come on, even YOU don’t believe that this open defiance of the Magisterium, of our Church’s teaching and of the Archbishop is not supporting a homosexual lifestyle. What are they proud of? Being homosexuals…golly that’s an achievement.

As to ministering to any community, we’re asked to feed the hungry, clothe the naked (and based on past parades there might well be opportunities do so!), visit the sick and the prisoner. Providing approval for sinful behavior is NOT ministering to homosexuals. We are to speak the truth and the truth is that homosexuality is disordered behavior. Why would any Parish want to say well not only do we love the sinner but we support the sin?

Lisa

 

[CruceSignati]

Kyrie eleison,
Christe eleison,
Kyrie eleison.

 

[Bonnie]

I haven’t seen evidence that the parishioners are “promoting a homosexual lifestyle.”

Believe me - they do. Not all, of course, but many. It was the one thing we couldn’t stomach while there. One time the priest was giving a series of talks about civil rights. During the q&a after the talk on the rights of homosexuals to be together (too many years, I can’t remember if he was promoting marriage or just equal rights). A person in the audience asked, if it was OK for homosexual couples to be together, was it OK for for someone who was bisexual to have two partners, one male and one female. The priest was obviously uncomfortable with this question, but that is what will be next.

I should point out that this was in the 1990s, so it was not the present priest.

 

[BroomWagon]

I’ve been to a Church that one would suppose had its fair representation of gays, in fact, in most all ways, the Church was rather “current” as to those who went there. But I never went enough to this Church to really have a pulse on the goings-ons but safe to say, these churches seem to exist though I have never seen anything out right improper or going against Catholic teaching, it just seemed to be a bit relaxed.

 

[BroomWagon]

The thing about Gay Pride Parades is some may be civil but some have a reputation for being very wild should we say. If it were the latter, I don’t think a Church of any kind should be participating.

 

[LisaA]

The thing about Gay Pride Parades is some may be civil but some have a reputation for being very wild should we say. If it were the latter, I don’t think a Church of any kind should be participating.

As I said, based on prior GP parades, there might well be opportunities to “clothe the naked…”

We had a “Naked Bike Ride” about a week ago, I suspect there will be plenty of flesh on display at this parade.

BTW GP parades often mock the Church with parodies on priests and religious, performing truly outrageous and disgusting actions. You probably get my drift here. I wonder what would happen if members of this Parish saw their Church being defiled and mocked?

Lisa

 

[livingwordunity]

I haven’t seen evidence that the parishioners are “promoting a homosexual lifestyle.”

Nothing personal, but you identify yourself as an agnostic. So we don’t expect you to see it from a Christian point of view. And your posts consistently reaffirm that you either don’t know or don’t care to know what is taught by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church on matters of faith and morals. The Magisterium isn’t important to you, but it’s important to us. Keep in mind that this is a Catholic website. You are also insulting people’s intelligence by denying what’s obvious in this parish situation.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Right…nothing about promoting a homosexual lifestyle by participating in a Gay Pride Parade with a banner carrying your Parish’s name Come on, even YOU don’t believe that this open defiance of the Magisterium, of our Church’s teaching and of the Archbishop is not supporting a homosexual lifestyle.

I go to Pride every year and I know for a fact that many of the churches which participate in the parades and set up booths at the festivals are not there to “promote a homosexual lifestyle.”

What are they proud of? Being homosexuals…golly that’s an achievement.

My how charitable. And people wonder why 8 in 10 don’t feel welcome. I don’t think you understand what Pride is about.

Providing approval for sinful behavior is NOT ministering to homosexuals. We are to speak the truth and the truth is that homosexuality is disordered behavior. Why would any Parish want to say well not only do we love the sinner but we support the sin?

I think there’s something to be said for parishioners and religious lay people in general who have the tact to say that we love and welcome the sinner but your personal sins are none of our business. How many people do you think, on both sides of this discussion, would respond well to being ambushed on the street by someone lecturing you about what they think your sins are and threaten fire and brimstone? Those people show up every year too and they are maligned and ignored. Guarantee you that anyone who approaches another person with kindness and welcoming will produce greater results than someone who approaches another person and says something to the effect of ‘Hi, I’m Jane Doe, I’m a parishioner at so and so Church, and we think you are disordered.’

 

[gracepoole]

Emperor’s point about ministering to gays and lesbians still stands. Based on the view of the Church held by homosexuals, shouldn’t some evangelization efforts be aimed at this group? If you’ve ever participated in a ministry that brought you out to speak with prostitutes at 2am while they attempted to earn a living, you know there are more and less effective means of outreach. The Church’s “outreach” to gays and lesbians doesn’t appear to be effective.