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PRmerger
Guest
And here’s even MORE absurdity that NonT is asserting!
Here, Pope JPII (a SAINT, no less!) has said that knowledge acquired through belief is imperfect:
NonT is claiming, incredulously, that BELIEF is evil!
St. Augustine and the quote: Jews "must be allowed to survive, but never to thrive"
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Here, Pope JPII (a SAINT, no less!) has said that knowledge acquired through belief is imperfect:
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Darryl_B
Guest
That is incorrect. The quote was not made by Augustine, it is obvious because it is too simplistic. It is a quote made by someone who has examined Augustine (probably more than yourself and the minor internet searches undertaken) and formulated his own synopsis of what he believes Augustine expresses in a much more detailed complex account.
It is a quote not by Augustine, but a quote about Augustine. The synopsis is unfortunate because it is ambiguous in its composition as it was interpreted in a preconceived fashion. It is that which I am addressing.
So could you stop the high school banter?
It is a quote not by Augustine, but a quote about Augustine. The synopsis is unfortunate because it is ambiguous in its composition as it was interpreted in a preconceived fashion. It is that which I am addressing.
So could you stop the high school banter?
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Darryl_B
Guest
Having read through this I think you are both actually on the same page but just don’t know it. (I do of course exclude the injection blaming ww2 on ecfs, because one would have to read mein kampf to understand the complexity of where that came from).
Definition of evil is an awkward thing, it is often perceived to be an absence of good, like darkness is an absence of light. But there can be gray-scale or from where I live grey-scale, where something that is in abstract terms good, and could under the best circumstances be good, can have elements of evil or failure to meet those expectations.
Definition of evil is an awkward thing, it is often perceived to be an absence of good, like darkness is an absence of light. But there can be gray-scale or from where I live grey-scale, where something that is in abstract terms good, and could under the best circumstances be good, can have elements of evil or failure to meet those expectations.
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JPUSC
Guest
Ecclesia and Synagoga
Ecclesia and Synagoga, or Ecclesia et Synagoga in Latin, meaning “Church and Synagogue”, are a pair of figures personifying the Church and the Jewish synagogue, that is to say the Jewish religion, found in medieval Christian art. They often appear sculpted as large figures on either side of a church portal, as in the most famous examples, those at Strasbourg Cathedral. They may also be found standing on either side of the cross in scenes of the Crucifixion, especially in Romanesque art, and less frequently in a variety of other contexts.
The two figures are shown as women, both usually young and attractive; Ecclesia is generally adorned with a crown, chalice and cross-topped staff, looking confidently forward. In contrast, Synagoga is blindfolded and drooping, carrying a broken lance (possibly an allusion to the Holy Lance that stabbed Christ) and the Tablets of the Law or Torah scrolls that may even be slipping from her hand. The staff and spear may have pennants flying from them. In images of the Crucifixion, Ecclesia may hold a chalice that catches the blood spurting from the side of Christ; she often holds the chalice as an attribute in other contexts. Attributes sometimes carried by Synagoga include a sheep or goat or just its head, signifying Old Testament sacrifice, in contrast to Ecclesia’s chalice which represents the Christian Eucharist. If not blindfold, Synagoga usually looks down…
The sculpted portal figures are generally found on the cathedrals of larger cities in northern Europe that had significant Jewish communities, especially in Germany, and apart from their theological significance, were certainly also intended to remind Jews of their place in a Christian society, by projecting “an ideal of Jewish submission within an ideally ordered Christian realm”. They are therefore very prominent, but not very common. Many Jews, like Christians, conducted business in churches, and would pass the figures as they came and went. However, unlike many medieval depictions of Jewish figures (other than those from the Hebrew Bible), there is very rarely any element of a hostile caricature in the depiction of Synagoga who, if clearly defeated, is often strikingly beautiful, as at Strasbourg.
Strasbourg Cathedral
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesia_and_Synagoga
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JPUSC
Guest
Catholic Teaching on the Shoah
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
The polemical teachings of the Church Fathers against Judaism that began in the second century (as the pope noted in 1997) and the severe persecutions of Jews that so marred the second millennium were so pervasive over time that the consciences of twentieth-century Christians were “lulled.” The result was that a continent, “Christian” for centuries, found all too few Christians capable of resisting the virus of racial antisemitism propagated by Nazism. A few did, and their heroism in saving Jewish lives is a model for students today. But many more did not, and for this the Church as a whole, in the moving phrases of Pope John Paul II and of We Remember, must repent and take responsibility…
Anti-Judaism and Antisemitism
We Remember distinguishes broadly between the theological polemics against Judaism developed by Christian teachers as early as the second century and the more modern racial and neo-pagan ideology of antisemitism that was developed in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries to euphemize racial hatred directed against Jews. Again, the distinction is crucial to understanding. The classic Christian approach to Judaism, as formulated by St. Augustine and set into lasting canonical precedent by Pope St. Gregory the Great, was fundamentally ambiguous in theory and practice. On the one hand, Jews were considered “blind” to the true meaning of their own Scriptures, not seeing their fulfillment in Christ. But their witness to the validity of the Hebrew Bible as divine revelation was seen as essential to the witness of the Church to Christ. Hence, Jews were to be allowed to worship (relatively) freely and were not to be forced to convert to Christianity. Judaism was thus the only licit religion besides Christianity in Christendom throughout the Middle Ages. The popes could be and often were successfully appealed to by Jewish communities when local civil authorities attempted to abuse them.
What specifically Christian anti-Judaism led to when it was abused was forced conversion; occasional, mindless massacres like those of the Crusaders in 1096; expulsion by secular rulers (beginning with England in the twelfth cen- tury and culminating in the 1492 expulsion from Spain); and the ghettoization of the remaining Jews of Western Europe. These Christian sins are indefensible. But when the Church was able to exercise authority in the civil societies of Europe (i.e., from the fourth century to the Enlightenment), the moral teaching of Church law acted at times as a restraint. At no time did the plight of Jews degenerate into anything near the systematic attempt at genocide that was the direct result of the adoption of a neo-pagan set of racial ideologies by the Nazi Reich in Germany. This total dehumanization of Jews allowed those who adopted it to conceive and implement the “final solution” for ridding Europe of the “infestation” of its Jewish population.
But Christian anti-Judaism did lay the groundwork for racial, genocidal anti- semitism by stigmatizing not only Judaism but Jews themselves for opprobrium and contempt. So the Nazi theories tragically found fertile soil in which to plant the horror of an unprecedented attempt at genocide. One way to put the “connectedness” between the Christian teaching of anti-Judaism (leading to anti-Jewishness) and Nazi antisemitism is that the former is a “necessary cause” to consider in explaining the development and success of the latter in the twentieth century—but not a “sufficient cause.” To account for the Holocaust, one must acknowledge the historical role of Christian anti- Judaism. But Christian anti-Judaism alone cannot account for the Holocaust. Semi-scientific racial theories and specific historical, ideological, economic, and social realities within Germany must also be taken into account in order to begin grappling with why Nazism succeeded in mobilizing virtually the entire intellectual and technological apparatus of a modern industrial state to its warped purpose of eliminating from human history God’s People, the Jews.
usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/jewish/upload/Catholic-Teaching-on-the-Shoah-Implementing-the-Holy-See-s-We-Remember-2001.pdf
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
The polemical teachings of the Church Fathers against Judaism that began in the second century (as the pope noted in 1997) and the severe persecutions of Jews that so marred the second millennium were so pervasive over time that the consciences of twentieth-century Christians were “lulled.” The result was that a continent, “Christian” for centuries, found all too few Christians capable of resisting the virus of racial antisemitism propagated by Nazism. A few did, and their heroism in saving Jewish lives is a model for students today. But many more did not, and for this the Church as a whole, in the moving phrases of Pope John Paul II and of We Remember, must repent and take responsibility…
Anti-Judaism and Antisemitism
We Remember distinguishes broadly between the theological polemics against Judaism developed by Christian teachers as early as the second century and the more modern racial and neo-pagan ideology of antisemitism that was developed in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries to euphemize racial hatred directed against Jews. Again, the distinction is crucial to understanding. The classic Christian approach to Judaism, as formulated by St. Augustine and set into lasting canonical precedent by Pope St. Gregory the Great, was fundamentally ambiguous in theory and practice. On the one hand, Jews were considered “blind” to the true meaning of their own Scriptures, not seeing their fulfillment in Christ. But their witness to the validity of the Hebrew Bible as divine revelation was seen as essential to the witness of the Church to Christ. Hence, Jews were to be allowed to worship (relatively) freely and were not to be forced to convert to Christianity. Judaism was thus the only licit religion besides Christianity in Christendom throughout the Middle Ages. The popes could be and often were successfully appealed to by Jewish communities when local civil authorities attempted to abuse them.
What specifically Christian anti-Judaism led to when it was abused was forced conversion; occasional, mindless massacres like those of the Crusaders in 1096; expulsion by secular rulers (beginning with England in the twelfth cen- tury and culminating in the 1492 expulsion from Spain); and the ghettoization of the remaining Jews of Western Europe. These Christian sins are indefensible. But when the Church was able to exercise authority in the civil societies of Europe (i.e., from the fourth century to the Enlightenment), the moral teaching of Church law acted at times as a restraint. At no time did the plight of Jews degenerate into anything near the systematic attempt at genocide that was the direct result of the adoption of a neo-pagan set of racial ideologies by the Nazi Reich in Germany. This total dehumanization of Jews allowed those who adopted it to conceive and implement the “final solution” for ridding Europe of the “infestation” of its Jewish population.
But Christian anti-Judaism did lay the groundwork for racial, genocidal anti- semitism by stigmatizing not only Judaism but Jews themselves for opprobrium and contempt. So the Nazi theories tragically found fertile soil in which to plant the horror of an unprecedented attempt at genocide. One way to put the “connectedness” between the Christian teaching of anti-Judaism (leading to anti-Jewishness) and Nazi antisemitism is that the former is a “necessary cause” to consider in explaining the development and success of the latter in the twentieth century—but not a “sufficient cause.” To account for the Holocaust, one must acknowledge the historical role of Christian anti- Judaism. But Christian anti-Judaism alone cannot account for the Holocaust. Semi-scientific racial theories and specific historical, ideological, economic, and social realities within Germany must also be taken into account in order to begin grappling with why Nazism succeeded in mobilizing virtually the entire intellectual and technological apparatus of a modern industrial state to its warped purpose of eliminating from human history God’s People, the Jews.
usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/jewish/upload/Catholic-Teaching-on-the-Shoah-Implementing-the-Holy-See-s-We-Remember-2001.pdf
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JPUSC
Guest
CATHOLIC TEACHING ON THE SHOAH
IMPLEMENTING THE HOLY SEE’S WE REMEMBER
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
The polemical teachings of the Church Fathers against Judaism that began in the second century (as the pope noted in 1997) and the severe persecutions of Jews that so marred the second millennium were so pervasive over time that the consciences of twentieth-century Christians were “lulled.” The result was that a continent, “Christian” for centuries, found all too few Christians capable of resisting the virus of racial antisemitism propagated by Nazism. A few did, and their heroism in saving Jewish lives is a model for students today. But many more did not, and for this the Church as a whole, in the moving phrases of Pope John Paul II and of We Remember, must repent and take responsibility…
Anti-Judaism and Antisemitism
We Remember distinguishes broadly between the theological polemics against Judaism developed by Christian teachers as early as the second century and the more modern racial and neo-pagan ideology of antisemitism that was developed in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries to euphemize racial hatred directed against Jews. Again, the distinction is crucial to understanding. The classic Christian approach to Judaism, as formulated by St. Augustine and set into lasting canonical precedent by Pope St. Gregory the Great, was fundamentally ambiguous in theory and practice. On the one hand, Jews were considered “blind” to the true meaning of their own Scriptures, not seeing their fulfillment in Christ. But their witness to the validity of the Hebrew Bible as divine revelation was seen as essential to the witness of the Church to Christ. Hence, Jews were to be allowed to worship (relatively) freely and were not to be forced to convert to Christianity. Judaism was thus the only licit religion besides Christianity in Christendom throughout the Middle Ages. The popes could be and often were successfully appealed to by Jewish communities when local civil authorities attempted to abuse them.
What specifically Christian anti-Judaism led to when it was abused was forced conversion; occasional, mindless massacres like those of the Crusaders in 1096; expulsion by secular rulers (beginning with England in the twelfth cen- tury and culminating in the 1492 expulsion from Spain); and the ghettoization of the remaining Jews of Western Europe. These Christian sins are indefen- sible. But when the Church was able to exercise authority in the civil societies of Europe (i.e., from the fourth century to the Enlightenment), the moral teaching of Church law acted at times as a restraint. At no time did the plight of Jews degenerate into anything near the systematic attempt at genocide that was the direct result of the adoption of a neo-pagan set of racial ideologies by the Nazi Reich in Germany. This total dehumanization of Jews allowed those who adopted it to conceive and implement the “final solution” for ridding Europe of the “infestation” of its Jewish population.
But Christian anti-Judaism did lay the groundwork for racial, genocidal anti-semitism by stigmatizing not only Judaism but Jews themselves for opprobrium and contempt. So the Nazi theories tragically found fertile soil in which to plant the horror of an unprecedented attempt at genocide. One way to put the “connectedness” between the Christian teaching of anti-Judaism (leading to anti-Jewishness) and Nazi antisemitism is that the former is a “necessary cause” to consider in explaining the development and success of the latter in the twentieth century—but not a “sufficient cause.” To account for the Holocaust, one must acknowledge the historical role of Christian anti-Judaism. But Christian anti-Judaism alone cannot account for the Holocaust. Semi-scientific racial theories and specific historical, ideological, economic, and social realities within Germany must also be taken into account in order to begin grappling with why Nazism succeeded in mobilizing virtually the entire intellectual and technological apparatus of a modern industrial state to its warped purpose of eliminating from human history God’s People, the Jews.
usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/jewish/upload/Catholic-Teaching-on-the-Shoah-Implementing-the-Holy-See-s-We-Remember-2001.pdf
IMPLEMENTING THE HOLY SEE’S WE REMEMBER
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
The polemical teachings of the Church Fathers against Judaism that began in the second century (as the pope noted in 1997) and the severe persecutions of Jews that so marred the second millennium were so pervasive over time that the consciences of twentieth-century Christians were “lulled.” The result was that a continent, “Christian” for centuries, found all too few Christians capable of resisting the virus of racial antisemitism propagated by Nazism. A few did, and their heroism in saving Jewish lives is a model for students today. But many more did not, and for this the Church as a whole, in the moving phrases of Pope John Paul II and of We Remember, must repent and take responsibility…
Anti-Judaism and Antisemitism
We Remember distinguishes broadly between the theological polemics against Judaism developed by Christian teachers as early as the second century and the more modern racial and neo-pagan ideology of antisemitism that was developed in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries to euphemize racial hatred directed against Jews. Again, the distinction is crucial to understanding. The classic Christian approach to Judaism, as formulated by St. Augustine and set into lasting canonical precedent by Pope St. Gregory the Great, was fundamentally ambiguous in theory and practice. On the one hand, Jews were considered “blind” to the true meaning of their own Scriptures, not seeing their fulfillment in Christ. But their witness to the validity of the Hebrew Bible as divine revelation was seen as essential to the witness of the Church to Christ. Hence, Jews were to be allowed to worship (relatively) freely and were not to be forced to convert to Christianity. Judaism was thus the only licit religion besides Christianity in Christendom throughout the Middle Ages. The popes could be and often were successfully appealed to by Jewish communities when local civil authorities attempted to abuse them.
What specifically Christian anti-Judaism led to when it was abused was forced conversion; occasional, mindless massacres like those of the Crusaders in 1096; expulsion by secular rulers (beginning with England in the twelfth cen- tury and culminating in the 1492 expulsion from Spain); and the ghettoization of the remaining Jews of Western Europe. These Christian sins are indefen- sible. But when the Church was able to exercise authority in the civil societies of Europe (i.e., from the fourth century to the Enlightenment), the moral teaching of Church law acted at times as a restraint. At no time did the plight of Jews degenerate into anything near the systematic attempt at genocide that was the direct result of the adoption of a neo-pagan set of racial ideologies by the Nazi Reich in Germany. This total dehumanization of Jews allowed those who adopted it to conceive and implement the “final solution” for ridding Europe of the “infestation” of its Jewish population.
But Christian anti-Judaism did lay the groundwork for racial, genocidal anti-semitism by stigmatizing not only Judaism but Jews themselves for opprobrium and contempt. So the Nazi theories tragically found fertile soil in which to plant the horror of an unprecedented attempt at genocide. One way to put the “connectedness” between the Christian teaching of anti-Judaism (leading to anti-Jewishness) and Nazi antisemitism is that the former is a “necessary cause” to consider in explaining the development and success of the latter in the twentieth century—but not a “sufficient cause.” To account for the Holocaust, one must acknowledge the historical role of Christian anti-Judaism. But Christian anti-Judaism alone cannot account for the Holocaust. Semi-scientific racial theories and specific historical, ideological, economic, and social realities within Germany must also be taken into account in order to begin grappling with why Nazism succeeded in mobilizing virtually the entire intellectual and technological apparatus of a modern industrial state to its warped purpose of eliminating from human history God’s People, the Jews.
usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/jewish/upload/Catholic-Teaching-on-the-Shoah-Implementing-the-Holy-See-s-We-Remember-2001.pdf
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Darryl_B
Guest
I do find it interesting that the Catholic Church authority lately has chosen to apologize for the treatment of the Jews in WW2. It was an atrocity, it was not a holocaust. Unfortunately the Catholic Church were not responsible for that situation in Germany. Hitler was raised Catholic, and therein lies the tie to the Catholic Church, but the only tie to the Catholic Church as he abandoned the Church in his youth.
However the situation in Germany was far more complex than we are led to believe. It is in fact WW1 aftermath which produced the Nazi parties success. It was the humiliation of the German peoples which produced the conditions permitting the Nazi party to thrive. This is a proud race, stripped of their dignity, lost in focus, low in spirit. They turned to vices in order to forget and simply live, and of course the vices were run by …
But then on the other hand, the majority of aid to Jews came from those low-life Catholics, including hitler’s Pope.
However the situation in Germany was far more complex than we are led to believe. It is in fact WW1 aftermath which produced the Nazi parties success. It was the humiliation of the German peoples which produced the conditions permitting the Nazi party to thrive. This is a proud race, stripped of their dignity, lost in focus, low in spirit. They turned to vices in order to forget and simply live, and of course the vices were run by …
But then on the other hand, the majority of aid to Jews came from those low-life Catholics, including hitler’s Pope.
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Darryl_B
Guest
I will also add that being “allowed to survive, but never to thrive” describes 99.5% of this mortal coils population.
- Status