J
Julia_Mae
Guest
No, why would it be?
St. Boniface Church In San Francisco Lets Homeless People Sleep In Pews
- Status
R
ringil
Guest
During religious retreats it is very common to allow folks to sleep near the blessed Sacrament. I have stayed at two retreat houses that allowed people to do this.
To be asleep i the presence of the Lord is not disrespectful. The holy Spirit works in the silence of our hearts and the Grace of God exists beyond what limitations we would place on Him.
added- now that I think about it St. Anthony’s Shrine in Boston often has homeless folks asleep in the lower church. I have been there countless times and have seen this.
J
Julia_Mae
Guest
Well, IMO, Jesus would much rather we care for the health and safety of the lowliest among us than worry too much about what seems dignified. I am also quite sure, being as this has been going on for years now, that the Sacrament is well-protected and respected.
C
cheezey
Guest
R
ringil
Guest
And shelters close during the day. Shelters, at least all the ones I know of- I am a social worker- open in the early evening and send everyone out very early in the morning- usually between 6 and 8 a.m.
J
Julia_Mae
Guest
They are supposed to be sleeping. It’s what they come for, what they need as much as food. I can’t imagine anything that honors Jesus more than following His teaching, showing His mercy, sheltering His children. No one is disturbing the Mass.
BTW, people can follow links I put in my first post ITT to donate.
G
grotto
Guest
forums.catholic-questions.org/images/smilies/wink.gif Well, I’ll jump in if there is any room left for another thought. I’ve read everyone’s comments so far and wonder how many are being a little too free and easy with the term “homeless”. I have observed that the people sleeping on park benches, doorways, abandoned shacks, etc. have severe problems with mental illness, drug and alcohol ruination and can be rather dangerous for “openers”. We will have to consider contagious illness, vermin and filth in general when inviting them to sleep in the pews. Unless nourishment, hygiene, toileting, medical help and behavior monitoring is also being provided, then I think its inflating a charitable deed way beyond the effort made to allow occupation of the church pews. Deliver the help with a “God Bless You and Keep You” might be more than enough for some to grasp - leave the “what happens next” to Our Lord - just keep helping and praying for them. 
J
Julia_Mae
Guest
I’ll say this once more and leave the thread: the Bishop and the Pastor have for many years found this to be acceptable. My opinion is that no one in this thread has a better understanding of theology or liturgy or spirituality or service to God than they do. I do not think for one moment and never did that this is in any way disrespectful to God. In fact, I think Jesus must be delighted that someone’s finally respecting His Word enough to actually do what He said.
C
cheezey
Guest
Mentioned early in the thread via a link…Unless nourishment, hygiene, toileting, medical help and behavior monitoring is also being provided, then I think its inflating a charitable deed way beyond the effort made to allow occupation of the church pews. Deliver the help with a “God Bless You and Keep You” might be more than enough for some to grasp - leave the “what happens next” to Our Lord - just keep helping and praying for them.
Every weekday the program uses the sanctuary’s rear 76 pews between 6 a.m. and 1 p.m. while providing access to the church’s amenities like bathrooms, blankets, clothing vouchers and haircuts,…
This program has been running for a while now. They are probably dealing with these issues, as well. As another post mentioned, a former homeless man came back in appreication, how it turned his life around. They must be dealing with it well.
S
Seamus_L
Guest
I think a church or school basement, or hall would be a more appropriate place. That being said, I’m not offended if I see someone sleeping in a pew, but I do know of incidents where homeless people have created nuisances in churches, stealing, aggressive panhandling, etc.
R
RoseMary131
Guest
These people have been invited by the parish priest through the Gubbio Project (I would assume with permission of the bishop) for the intention of sleep. God is present in the Blessed Sacrament in the same place where they have been invited to sleep.
I, too, read that the people were sleeping in the Church (with Christ present Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity). I did not miss that in the article, the pictures, or the title of the thread. I did not read that they were offering Our Lord less dignity.
I do not define that these homeless people are offering Our Lord less dignity than those who are attending Mass, even though they are sleeping while Mass is being offered or sleeping in the Church with Jesus in the tabernacle.
In my opionion, sleeping is not undignified. To discuss how I would respond to friends coming to visit me while I was asleep and how I would respond would involve who the friends were, why they came to visit at a time I was sleeping, why I was asleep, etc. For different situations, I would have different reactions.
It would be rude for me to head over to the church now for the purpose of sleeping.
It would be rude for me to plan not to participate in Mass following the proper posture and prayers of the Mass.
(This is provided I have nothing else to change why I am doing something different. As the mother of a child with special needs, my posture and spoken prayer often do not match those of the Mass. I do know when I enter the church, that I will not be able to participate as fully as I would like, but I know that I will do what I can to try to participate, to help my child, and to keep from distracting others as much as possible.)
This Gubbio Project is not about me or the average person inside the Church. It is specifically for the homeless to be offered a place to sleep…even to sleep before the Kind of Kings, the Lord of Lords.
It would be rude for me to nap at a gala dinner and a gala dinner is nothing compared to the Holy Table we have been invited for the Mass of Our Lord to celebrate at His Banquet Table and be Feed His Holy Body and Blood.
Yes, that is very relevant. It is relevant to my thinking, maybe not to your thinking. That is the WHOLE POINT of allowing the homeless to come sleep during the day time. It may have nothing to do with why you are posting, but it has everything to do with why I am posting.
It is the very reason the homeless people are being invited to sleep in empty pews while the church is open during the day. It explains why I think God is not being disrespected and why I think that their sleeping before the Lord is not less dignified.
The same way I do not think I am disrespecting God when I am not following proper posture during Mass when I’m helping my child. I would not be acting in a dignified manner if I did the same thing - without my child - just on my own. I would be rude to God and to others.
God deserves more respect than any of us can give Him.
For the person who has been without sleep for awhile, I don’t think God is going to ask them to have the same alertness as someone who gets a normal amount of sleep. I don’t see the sleeping homeless person as not being respectful. Because the person has been invited to sleep during the time the church is open, I do not think he is disrespecting God. You think that he is.
They were invited to go completely to sleep…to sleep without worry that someone might harm them…to sleep without worry that someone might steal their few belongings…to sleep without concerns of the elements…to sleep in the safety of the Church…to sleep before God Himself.
R
RoseMary131
Guest
So, in a nutshell, you and I (and other folks with you and other folks with me) disagree because you think “it is disrespectful for a person to sleep in the Church with GOD present, and (I) don’t.”
That’s it. That’s the reason there are 8 pages of messages on this thread.
So, on to the dignity of sleep…
…you have given me your opinion on why you believe sleep is undignified. My opinion is that sleep is not undignified.
I will not accept your call that if I “can prove to (you) that there is nothing immature or rude about taking a nap at a formal dinner, (you’ll) accept there is nothing wrong with sleeping in front of the Master of the Universe.”
Napping at a formal dinner in which a person is invited to eat and share in fellowship with others is not equivalent to a person sleeping in a church when the parish has invited a homeless person to sleep in the pew with the Master of the Universe present Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, even sleeping during the Feast of the Lamb.
You do not have to accept “there is nothing wrong with sleeping in front of the Master of the Universe.”
C
catholicanne
Guest
Then why can’t we all just agree to disagree?
C
cheezey
Guest
I would agree on that…Then why can’t we all just agree to disagree?
R
RoseMary131
Guest
Homeless people often sleep during the day. Most likely, like an owl, they are awake during a lot of the night time sleeping hours when most of us are asleep safely in our homes.Interesting. I wonder what the people are doing sleeping during the day…
They aren’t owls, are they?
Some will sleep better than others. Some will be in a safer homeless shelter than other shelters. Some will be spending the night hours in an alley, under a bridge, a homeless camp, or any place they can find.
During those “sleeping hours”, they may be concerned for their own safety, concerned that their belongings may be stolen, and experiencing the harshness of the elements. This is not a restful sleep. Their body is not ready for the next day.
You probably don’t have to just wonder about this…see if you can visit a homeless shelter. Maybe you can participate in a program designed to teach others about the life of a homeless person.
R
RoseMary131
Guest
Then why can’t we all just agree to disagree?
Agreed!I would agree on that…
May God grant to all His children around the world a blessed sleep tonight.
C
cheezey
Guest
Amen…
D
Dale_M
Guest
The argument in this thread is the sort of thing which causes scandal. It drives people away from the Faith, rather than draw them into it.
What the church in San Francisco is doing is very much in keeping with the Gospel. Whether they could find a better way, I don’t know. Maybe, but I can’t tell because I am not there. I don’t know the details of what is going on or the limitations which the church program faces.
O
Obispo
Guest
Why deprive the sleepers of the great grace of being in His Presence?
It’s been my experience that the homeless are ultra courteous when inside my parish church.
E
Elizabeth502
Guest
I think you need to respect the fact that “the homeless” is a catch-all term, with the most socially problematic of them being different by region or city. In my area, the homeless who enter church during liturgy are very disrespectful and clownish. They parade around during the litugy, interrupt the homily, enter the sanctuary during the homily, pester random parishioners during Mass, and often aggressively panhandle after Mass, just outside.
The homeless also include very conventional and conventional-looking people one would never suspect of being homeless, necessarily (because, unlike the ones above, they do not act crazy), but in general the more urban the setting, the higher proportion of mentally unstable and aggressive there are, relative to the well-behaved among them. Maybe it has something to do with less funding, fewer resources relative to the needs of this population, or the size of that population in urban settings, I don’t know.
But to caricature them all as “ultra-courteous” does not necessarily apply outside of your own parish.
- Status