St. John Henry Newman Banned?

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Could it be that " political correctness " is not necessarily the best approach?
If this response by St. John Henry Newman appeared on CAF he would probably be banned. And this is not the only example that could be given. The good Saint could give just as good as he got. And it is a shame that we have to stand around like punching bags.

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How Cardinal Newman Handled the Haters
Brandon Vogt | November 26, 2012 AD | 7 Replies

In January 1864, the Protestant pastor and novelist Charles Kingsley reviewed an English history book for Macmillan’s Magazine. The review began innocently enough. Kingsley critiqued the author’s handling of English figures like Mary Tudor and Queen Elizabeth. However, it quickly devolved into potshots against Catholicism in general, and against one of its most ardent supporters, John Henry Newman, in particular. Newman was not yet Catholic, though he was on his way to converting in October 1845. But that didn’t stop him from being grossly offended by Kingsley’s remarks. This one hurt the most:

“Truth, for its own sake, had never been a virtue with the Roman clergy. Father Newman informs us that it need not, and on the whole ought not to be.”
To translate into modern parlance, Kingsley basically said: “All priests are liars and Newman is the worst.” Or into leetspeak: “Newman’s a n00b.”

So how did Newman respond? Well, the same way any of us would. The internet is flooded with slander and personal attacks—if you doubt that, go on Facebook and comment on any religious or political issue—and the typical response is to fight fire with more fire. If they dish it out, you serve it right on back. Newman was of the same mindset, so here’s how he responded:

Dear Mr. Kingsley,

Your amateur review, which contains unneeded and demonstrably fallacious accusations, hardly deserves a reply. The charges within are no mere error—they’re simply idiotic. They betray your lack of intellect more than my lack of virtue, as a simple reading of any of the Church’s most Holy Scriptures—you do read, don’t you?—would affirm the primacy of Truth. I can only assume your density precludes such understanding, or it may be your arrogance which renders comprehension impossible. Whatever the source, be assured that you have my deepest sympathies and prayers. I can only hope the smoke of Satan stops clouding your already pitiable intellect.

I am,
Your dear brother in Truth and charity,
John Henry Newman
Newman’s response would

👍
 
Something weird with the dates above…
The quoted posting has the article being written 21 years AFTER Newman becoming Catholic, yet it says that Newman was not yet Catholic but on his way to conversion in 1845…Something does not compute…

Peace
James
 
Or perhaps this from the beginning of the City of God by St. Augustine.

If only the weak understanding of the ordinary man did not stubbornly resist the plain evidence of logic and truth! If only it would, in its feeble condition, submit itself to the restorative medicine of sound teaching, until divine assistance, procured by devout faith, effected a cure! In that case, men of sound judgment and adequate powers of exposition would not need to engage in lengthy discussion in order to refute mistakes and fanciful conjectures.

But as things are, the intelligent are infected by a gross mental disorder which makes them defend the irrational workings of their minds as if they were logic and truth itself, even when the evidence has been put before them as plainly as is humanly possible. Either they are too blind to see what is put before their face, or they are too perversely obstinate to admit what they see. The result is that we are forced very often to give an extended exposition of the obvious, as if we were not presenting it for people to look at, but for them to touch and handle with their eyes shut.

And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand In fact, the Bible says “Their conversation is unrighteousness, and they are indefatigable in folly.” [Ps 94.4] You can see how infinitely laborious and fruitless it would be to try to refute every objection they offer, when they have resolved never to think before they speak provided that somehow or other they contradict our arguments. [from City of God, 2.1]

👍
 
Something weird with the dates above…
The quoted posting has the article being written 21 years AFTER Newman becoming Catholic, yet it says that Newman was not yet Catholic but on his way to conversion in 1845…Something does not compute…

Peace
James
Don’t know anything about that but I’m reading Apologia Vita Sua and I can attest that he could be very cutting in his comments. I wonder if a " no name " posted such comments here how long would it be before he was banned or given demerits or warnings to be more charitable. 👍
 
He was a master of the indignant retort, whereas we are mere amateurs.

As well, it reveals that the charity standards at CAF exceed even Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman’s!
 
Don’t know anything about that but I’m reading Apologia Vita Sua and I can attest that he could be very cutting in his comments. I wonder if a " no name " posted such comments here how long would it be before he was banned or given demerits or warnings to be more charitable. 👍
You may well be correct…

But in reading the response, I think that I would have to agree with the moderators here if they did ban him…

One has to remember that just because he is now Saint John Henry Newman…Doesn’t mean that, at the time he wrote that response, he was incapable of the sin of being uncharitable.

Peace
James
 
I’m sorry, but if you would read the remainder of the article you would have discovered that he did not say that.

Here is the article: ignitumtoday.com/2012/11/26/newman/

And, if you had read two lines more, you would have seen this:
But there’s only one problem.
That’s not exactly how Newman responded. His actual reply was much more kind and humble. Here’s the actual letter, which was directed not toward Kingsley but to the editors of Macmillan’s Magazine:
Also, he is Blessed and not Saint yet 🙂
 
You may well be correct…

But in reading the response, I think that I would have to agree with the moderators here if they did ban him…

One has to remember that just because he is now Saint John Henry Newman…Doesn’t mean that, at the time he wrote that response, he was incapable of the sin of being uncharitable.

Peace
James
He is Blessed, not Saint. And he did not make the response that was quoted by the OP. His response was much much more charitable and you can read about it here: ignitumtoday.com/2012/11/26/newman/
 
St. Basil has some petty goods lines in Against Eunomius. ‘Uncharitable’ language was actually quite common back then (basically through the entire history of the Eastern Roman Empire), because the genre of polemical treatises demanded it.
 
I’m sorry, but if you would read the remainder of the article you would have discovered that he did not say that.

Here is the article: ignitumtoday.com/2012/11/26/newman/

And, if you had read two lines more, you would have seen this:

Also, he is Blessed and not Saint yet 🙂
That is interesting. I went back and posted a question asking the source of the " ofending " quote. I really wonder where it came from. Brandon didn’t make it very clear what was going on. I am slowly re-reading the Apologia. We shall see how Newman maintains his equanimity there. 👍
 
Hey folks, I was confused. To be fair Brandon should have made it clear where the first letter came from. If he had no source why did he use it. I agree it does not appear in the first part of the Apologia. 👍
 
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