St. John of the Cross and Emptying the Mind

[JimR-OCDS]

I was reading St. Faustina’s Diary last evening, and really took in deeply her words about God choosing certain souls.

This may be what underlied St. Paul’s words about working out his salvation in fear and trembling, for he, too, knew how much he had received from God.

And didn’t Jesus say, " those who are given more, more will be demanded of them?"

Jim

 

[Sirach2]

And didn’t Jesus say, " those who are given more, more will be demanded of them?"
Jim

He sure did, and it sometimes makes me tremble, too, for I also know how much I have received. Especially wonderful is our gift of the Catholic faith, yet many fail to appreciate the tremendous privilege of being called to it.

 

[DBT]

I read this today and thought it was interesting because it’s about listening, the topic of some recent posts. More so because the “method” of listening is very much in keeping with the theme of this thread: annihilating the senses in order to live more fully in the present moment.
Abandonment to Divine Providence:

Now how should we listen to God, who speaks to us in the depths of our hearts at every moment of our lives? We have our normal senses and our intelligence, but what if they cannot understand the truth and goodness of his words? Is it because they are too feeble to cope with the divine truths? But should we really be astonished that our human reason is baffled by the divine mysteries? The darker the mystery, the more we are illumined by it. So a simple soul finds God where he seems not to appear at all. If we want to live a life of faith we must fight without pause against our senses.

The way we annihilate our senses, according to Fr. de Caussade, comes down to managing our expectations on a moment-by-moment basis. Sometimes the annihilation takes place in our will in the form of a desire or want. Other times it occurs in the intellect in what we think or believe. In either case - and very much in keeping with St. John of the Cross - it’s always the memory that’s the real culprit since it’s the faculty that serves up these expectations to our mind which often come with such an emotional intensity that it chokes off our very ability the perceive the present moment:
Abandonment to Divine Providence:

What we really want to do is restrict his work so that it conforms to the rules and boundaries that our limited reason considers suitable. We try to improve and do nothing but complain and grumble. Yet we are surprised at the way the Jews treated Jesus Christ! Ah! when I think of God’s love, his adorable will, his unerring acts, I cannot believe how he is treated. How can the will of God be unreasonable? How can it ever be wrong?

And how do we go about showing our unreasonableness … our inability to listen?
Abandonment to Divine Providence:

You would be very ashamed if you knew what the experiences you call setbacks, upheavals, pointless disturbances, and tedious annoyances really are. You would realize that your complaints about them are nothing more nor less than blasphemies – though that never occurs to you. Nothing happens to you except by the will of God, and yet his beloved children curse it because they do not know it for what it is.

Father concludes:
Abandonment to Divine Providence:

If we see the will of God in the most trifling affairs, in every misfortune, and in every disaster, we shall accept them all with an equal joy, delight and respect. What others fear and flee from, we shall welcome with open doors. For our faith is never more alive than when what we experience through our senses contradicts and tries to destroy it. The battle with our senses gives our faith a splendid victory.

Listening, according to de Caussade, is the key to everything. And a true contemplative is the one who is able to say “It is the Lord” no matter what might be happening to them … be it good, bad or something in between.

Dave

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Dave,
Thanks for sharing that.

I love Abandonment to Divine Providence.

It’s as if it were written today by a modern spiritual master.

From what I recall, his message seems to be, just let the flow of life happen, this is God’s will for you.

Jim

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Dave,
Thanks for sharing that.

I love Abandonment to Divine Providence.

It’s as if it were written today by a modern spiritual master.

From what I recall, his message seems to be, just let the flow of life happen, this is God’s will for you.

Jim

We so often resist and/or fear what we cannot change. Impossible then to be at peace.
Change what we can if we think it best, otherwise go with the flow trusting in God’s wisdom and love. That seems to be the way of the saints. So often it is so difficult just to accept What Is. And yet isn’t that were God is found, the One Who Is?

 

[Richca]

St John of the Cross is a Doctor of the Church who spoke a great deal about the contemplative life. Quite often he seems to be talking about an emtying of the mind not just of worldly thoughts but also of spiritual thoughts and images. We are not accustomed to this and i think try to read something else into it especially when we want to contrast it with Asian spirituality. Here are just a few excerpts from Ascent of Mt Carmel which I do not think can be understood in any other way. i think we need to learn to appreciate this apophatic spirituality and not rationalize it away.

Book 2 Chapter 4 Paragraph 4
So, however much the soul aspires to be perfectly united through grace in
this life with that to which it will be united through glory in the next (which, as Saint Paul
here says, eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath it entered into the heart of man in
the flesh), it is clear that, in order perfectly to attain to union in this life through grace and
through love, a soul must be in darkness with respect to all that can enter through the eye,
and to all that can be received through the ear, and can be imagined with the fancy, and
understood with the heart, which here signifies the soul. And thus a soul is greatly impeded
from reaching this high estate of union with God when it clings to any understanding or
feeling or imagination or appearance or will or manner of its own, or to any other act or to
anything of its own, and cannot detach and strip itself of all these. For, as we say, the goal
which it seeks lies beyond all this, yea, beyond even the highest thing that can be known or
experienced; and thus a soul must pass beyond everything to unknowing.

Book 3 Chapter 2 Paragraph 1
Which treats of the natural apprehensions of the memory and describes how the soul
must be voided of them in order to be able to attain to union with God according to
this faculty.

It is necessary that, in each of these books, the reader should bear in mind the purpose of
which we are speaking. For otherwise there may arise within him many such questions with
respect to what he is reading as might by this time be occurring to him with respect to what
we have said of the understanding, and shall say now of the memory, and afterwards shall
say of the will. For, seeing how we annihilate the faculties with respect to their operations,
it may perhaps seem to him that we are destroying the road of spiritual practice rather than constructing it.

Book 3 Chapter 2 Paragraph 2
This would be true if we were seeking here only to instruct beginners, who are best prepared
through these apprehensible and discursive apprehensions. But, since we are here giving
instruction to those who would progress farther in contemplation, even to union with God,
to which end all of these means and exercises of sense concerning the faculties must recede
into the background, and be put to silence, to the end that God may of His own accord work
Divine union in the soul, it is necessary to proceed by this method of **disencumbering and
emptying the soul, and causing it to reject the natural jurisdiction and operations of the
faculties, **so that they may become capable of infusion and illumination from supernatural
sources; for their capacity cannot attain to so lofty an experience, but will rather hinder it,
if it be not disregarded.

He does speak of the value of images but with great caution:

Book 3 Chapter 37 Paragraph 1
Just as images are of great benefit for remembering God and the saints, and for moving the
will to devotion when they are used in the ordinary way, as is fitting, so they will lead to
great error if, when supernatural happenings come to pass in connection with them, the
soul should not be able to conduct itself as is fitting for its journey to God.

I think what St John of the Cross is talking about here is when a person is being led by God into contemplation and the entrance into the illuminative way which if a person is so led into contemplation the retaining of images and such when one is receiving contemplation can be a hindrance to the contemplation. Contemplation is a supernatural grace and I don’t think we should try to advance ourselves ahead of grace but follow it. Before the beginning of contemplation as St John himself teaches, we need images and meditation on the life of Christ as it is recorded for us in the gospels. We can meditate on different scenes of the gospels and unless God grants us the contemplation this kind of meditation can be with us throughout our lives on earth; and even if God grants us contemplation we may have to recourse to images and such at times in our prayer when the contemplation is not there. I believe St Teresa of Avila says that the humanity of Christ is no hindrance to contemplation even in the spiritual marriage.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

But do we even give it a chance? Usually not.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

God can lead a person into contemplation in a second.

If you doubt this, then you can’t accept the testimony of St Paul.

Jim

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

I think what St John of the Cross is talking about here is when a person is being led by God into contemplation and the entrance into the illuminative way which if a person is so led into contemplation the retaining of images and such when one is receiving contemplation can be a hindrance to the contemplation. Contemplation is a supernatural grace and I don’t think we should try to advance ourselves ahead of grace but follow it. Before the beginning of contemplation as St John himself teaches, we need images and meditation on the life of Christ as it is recorded for us in the gospels. We can meditate on different scenes of the gospels and unless God grants us the contemplation this kind of meditation can be with us throughout our lives on earth; and even if God grants us contemplation we may have to recourse to images and such at times in our prayer when the contemplation is not there. I believe St Teresa of Avila says that the humanity of Christ is no hindrance to contemplation even in the spiritual marriage.

Here is what the current Catechism states about who and when:

CCC 2710
The choice of the time and duration of the prayer arises from a determined will, revealing the secrets of the heart. One does not undertake contemplative prayer only when one has the time: one makes time for the Lord, with the firm determination not to give up, no matter what trials and dryness one may encounter. One cannot always meditate, but one can always enter into inner prayer, independently of the conditions of health, work, or emotional state. The heart is the place of this quest and encounter, in poverty and in faith.

Since John of the Cross has been a “doctor of the Church” for less than 90 years, that makes sense because intellectual knowledge and mysticism based on him are such different tools in the toolbox that the one we are given cannot discover the other on its own. Luckily now the truth is starting to come out, from where it has stayed hidden over centuries until now it is coming out that communications technology are what they are.

My hope is that some day “mainstream” Catholicism will include a healthy mix of mysticism integrated into the dogmatic and moral in a seamless quilt of spiritual unity. Others are welcome to join me in Dreaming Big, because without these dreams, they won’t make it from the heart into human reality. Or say I’m delusional; either way if it leads to fruit of the spirit, it’s good for me.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

God can lead a person into contemplation in a second.

If you doubt this, then you can’t accept the testimony of St Paul.

Jim

God can and does often lead many to contemplation. But how many give themselves to follow? How many let go and surrender? Of course only God knows.

I’ll be dreaming with Mystic Seeker.

 

[christofirst]

It always seems odd to me when I am told that I must actively pursue one way of prayer with continuing effort, but when it comes to other ways of prayer like the topic of this thread, then I can only remain passive and wait for God to take the lead. I thought God always takes the lead when it comes to prayer, and any time I am moved to pray, it is always at God’s prompting and invitation. If I can and must take action in order to cooperate with God’s call to pray the rosary, for instance, why must it be improper or dangerous to try to “empty my mind” (or at least to quiet my mind, in my case) so as to cooperate with a call to silent, quiet prayer?

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

It always seems odd to me when I am told that I must actively pursue one way of prayer with continuing effort, but when it comes to other ways of prayer like the topic of this thread, then I can only remain passive and wait for God to take the lead. I thought God always takes the lead when it comes to prayer, and any time I am moved to pray, it is always at God’s prompting and invitation. If I can and must take action in order to cooperate with God’s call to pray the rosary, for instance, why must it be improper or dangerous to try to “empty my mind” (or at least to quiet my mind, in my case) so as to cooperate with a call to silent, quiet prayer?

That’s a really good question. All our lives we are told to “do” things but to attribute our ability to do it, to God.

In case I haven’t already linked it, here is a book they were using for intro to prayer in Kenrick-Glennon seminary. Written by a Jesuit, easy to read and very practical. It takes through four “stages” of prayer and gives a chapter to each one:

1. talking at God (rote prayer)
2. talking to God (personal prayer)
3. listening to God, and
4. Being with God.

It has imprimatur and nihil obstat, and has an audible version read by the book’s author.

Armchair Mystic: Easing Into Contemplative Prayer Paperback – April 1, 2001
by Mark E. Thibodeaux S.J. (Author)

 

[Richca]

Here is what the current Catechism states about who and when:

CCC 2710
The choice of the time and duration of the prayer arises from a determined will, revealing the secrets of the heart. One does not undertake contemplative prayer only when one has the time: one makes time for the Lord, with the firm determination not to give up, no matter what trials and dryness one may encounter. One cannot always meditate, but one can always enter into inner prayer, independently of the conditions of health, work, or emotional state. The heart is the place of this quest and encounter, in poverty and in faith.

Since John of the Cross has been a “doctor of the Church” for less than 90 years, that makes sense because intellectual knowledge and mysticism based on him are such different tools in the toolbox that the one we are given cannot discover the other on its own. Luckily now the truth is starting to come out, from where it has stayed hidden over centuries until now it is coming out that communications technology are what they are.

My hope is that some day “mainstream” Catholicism will include a healthy mix of mysticism integrated into the dogmatic and moral in a seamless quilt of spiritual unity. Others are welcome to join me in Dreaming Big, because without these dreams, they won’t make it from the heart into human reality. Or say I’m delusional; either way if it leads to fruit of the spirit, it’s good for me.

The Catechism does not appear to go into detail about different “kinds” of contemplative prayer which some spiritual writers divide into acquired contemplation and infused contemplation. Spiritual masters such as St Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross write primarily about infused contemplation. All prayer is of course a grace. The infused mystical contemplation St Teresa of Avila writes about is an absolutely free gift of God which we cannot acquire by our own efforts. We simply passively receive it from God when and to whom He wants to give it. In the Interior Castle St Teresa writes about the different kinds of this infused contemplation some of which are more perceptible than others. The prayer of quiet or recollection is the beginning of infused contemplation and it may be imperceptible at first to the person receiving it. St John of the Cross also speaks of the beginning stages of infused contemplation which appears in the dark night of the senses and the entrance into the illuminative way. And the infused contemplation here is very delicate and can be imperceptible to the one receiving it.

Without going back to look into St Teresa’s writings but just recalling from memory, I think St Teresa says that it is in the prayer of union where a person knows with certainty that they have been touched by God with mystical contemplation. The main point is that infused mystical contemplation is a prayer that cannot be acquired by our own efforts. We can prepare ourselves to receive it from God by being diligent in prayer, never giving up prayer, and actively serving God to the best of our ability. But, it is up to God when and to whom he wants to give this infused mystical contemplation in this life, it is a great gift.

The beginnings of infused contemplation such as in the dark night of the senses taught by St John of the Cross, he says happens to many and is common (I believe). This infused contemplation is analogues I think to the prayer of quiet or recollection of St Teresa of Avila. The more advanced stages of infused contemplation, the dark night of the spirit, the spiritual marriage, and the unitive way occur in far less souls. This is not because God does not want to bring souls to union with Him, for this is the goal of the spiritual life, but because of the difficulties, trials, and crosses involved along this way which many souls do not have the courage as it were to sustain. God deals with each soul according to how he knows, as well as His own purposes, what each soul is capable of. Of course, even great souls get their strength and courage from the Lord. A consoling thought here though, is the doctrine of the little way of St Therese of Lisieux who finding in herself that she didn’t have the strength to do the great penances of the great saints, rejoiced in her weaknesses.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

If I can and must take action in order to cooperate with God’s call to pray the rosary, for instance, why must it be improper or dangerous to try to “empty my mind” (or at least to quiet my mind, in my case) so as to cooperate with a call to silent, quiet prayer?

That so called “danger” has been exaggerated by those who see it as too Buddhist. Of course there is danger in anything, that we get so caught up in our own doing. I guess even when “doing” is not doing.

“Empty mind” needs qualification. It is not stupor nor unconsciousness nor an invitation for Satan to come on in. I see it more as attention, listening, keeping vigil with pure heart and mind unencumbered with thoughts and images, memories and plans. Yet something like the rosary helps us make the transition from our daily whirlwind of thoughts and activities. If 20 minutes of rosary brings me to juat a few seconds of inner stillness here and there I am in peace. But there are times when even the rosary is too much thought and word. If God freely offers a moment of inner stillness, why chase it away even witha rosary. It all seems to be timing. Each stage of prayer has its place.

 

[DBT]

The Catechism does not appear to go into detail about different “kinds” of contemplative prayer which some spiritual writers divide into acquired contemplation and infused contemplation. Spiritual masters such as St Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross write primarily about infused contemplation.

A couple of quick comments:

1. While you are correct that the CCC does not differentiate between acquired and infused contemplation in it’s descriptions, careful reading clearly indicates the perspective of the CCC skews heavily toward the acquired. This was done, I believe, to show that contemplation is a possibility open to all. Not all will taste the infused prayer of a Teresa (passive recollection, quiet and union) … but all have the potential to experience the prayer of the heart, prayer of simplicity and the loving attentiveness of “I look at Him and He looks at me” if they are so drawn. This is what the CCC describes. Limiting our understanding of contemplation to the infused is just that … limiting.
2. And while Sts John and Teresa are certainly known for their treatment of infused contemplation, they also spoke of the acquired. This is particularly true of St. John of the Cross whose entire work The Ascent of Mount Carmel can be viewed as a treatise on acquired contemplation. This is especially true of Book Three of The Ascent where the “method” of voiding the mind is taught. These chapters are the theme in which this thread has been based.

I make these points in addition to the very fine things you said in your post to point out to readers that not all contemplation is infused and that our proper attitude toward contemplation in general should not be limited to “passive” considerations. There is very definitely an “active” component to it as well … one example of which is St. John’s treatment on emptying the mind.

Lastly, I would go so far as to say that if one adopts strictly a passive point of view they will likely never taste contemplation in any of it’s forms. Experience will show that contemplation comes to us in degrees and there is much preparation work involved to properly dispose ourselves. This is what the active nights are all about … preparing ourselves. In short, God helps those who help themselves.

Dave

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I just watched that segment on 60 Minutes about Mindfulness. We have always had in in our Christian tradition and called it Vigilance. To bad it has usually beeen overlooked.

 

[Richca]

A couple of quick comments:

1. While you are correct that the CCC does not differentiate between acquired and infused contemplation in it’s descriptions, careful reading clearly indicates the perspective of the CCC skews heavily toward the acquired. This was done, I believe, to show that contemplation is a possibility open to all. Not all will taste the infused prayer of a Teresa (passive recollection, quiet and union) … but all have the potential to experience the prayer of the heart, prayer of simplicity and the loving attentiveness of “I look at Him and He looks at me” if they are so drawn. This is what the CCC describes. Limiting our understanding of contemplation to the infused is just that … limiting.

 

[DBT]

I’m not sure the Ascent of Mount Carmel can be viewed as a treatise on acquired contemplation. For one thing, the contemplation St John mentions in this work is of the infused type and belongs to the passive nights.

Hi Richca -

My posts in this thread treat St. John of the Cross as we teach it in Carmel. When speaking specifically of The Ascent, I do not agree that the contemplation presented there is infused (or at least primarily so). Yes, as you say, The Ascent is about the active nights. And this includes his treatment of contemplation … which we are calling here in this thread acquired contemplation and/or active recollection. The Dark Night, John’s counterpart to The Ascent, treats the purification of intellect/will/memory from the passive point of view. And there his treatment of contemplation is infused.

When St. Teresa used the term “contemplation” she always meant infused. To her mental prayer and active recollection (see Way of Perfection chapters 28-30) were ways of prayer distinct from contemplation as she presented it. Not so with John. He takes a broader point of view … much more closely in-tune with the CCC than Teresa.

And here’s how we know that. St. John of the Cross presents his 3-signs for proceeding with contemplation two times … once in The Ascent and once in The Dark Night. In both places he describes “loving attentiveness” as the description of contemplation. But in The Ascent it is a loving attentiveness we can do and enter into of our own accord (acquired) whereas in The Dark Night the loving attentiveness is passively received (infused).

This also corresponds to his treatment of contemplation in Spiritual Canticle. In the stanzas associated with the purgative way (1-12), contemplation is presented as acquired. Here is Father John Venard, OCD explanation of these stanzas:
The Spiritual Canticle with simplified notes:

The soul now enters on the contemplative way. It should be noted that St. John of the Cross uses the word "contemplation’ of that state immediately following discursive meditation. This is a state of simple loving awareness, of inner solitude and recollection. It is not to be confused with infused contemplation.

and again …
The Spiritual Canticle with simplified notes:

Here, the word “contemplation” does not refer to the infused contemplation which will be God’s gift and is yet to come.

The treatment of contemplation shifts to a truly infused perspective beginning in Stanza 13 … the beginning of the Illuminative Way. Thus the acquired/infused distinctions in Spiritual Canticle correspond to his treatment of the same subject matter in The Ascent and Dark Night.

It was for these reasons the Provincial Council of our Province (for better or worse) made the decision to drop The Dark Night from the formation program. The reason: not all will be led by God to the trials of the passive nights nor experience contemplation in it’s infused forms. However all can (and must) mortify themselves via the active nights if they hope to grow in holiness. And this, of course, includes the very mortification that serves as the topic of this thread: Emptying and voiding the memory so as to remain in loving attentiveness as often as possible.

Hope this helps …
Dave

 

[Robert_Sock]

Question: should Contemplative Prayer involve an active mind where we focus ALL our attention to our listen for God. OTOH, it seem like many Saints went into more of a passive trance to commune with God. Which state should we strive for?

A prime example of a trance-like state comes from Saint Thomas Aquinas:

On 6 December, 1273, he laid aside his pen and would write no more. That day he experienced an unusually long ecstasy during Mass; what was revealed to him we can only surmise from his reply to Father Reginald, who urged him to continue his writings: “I can do no more. Such secrets have been revealed to me that all I have written now appears to be of little value.”
-Saint Thomas Aquinas

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

It amazes me how complicated we can make sitting and “resting from actively thinking” for a while. :banghead:

People are trained to crave constant “interesting” sensory (name removed by moderator)ut. This can drive a person to as much as a bona fide “severe psychosis”, as it did me. :whacky:

Then you gotta fix it, like I did, and for me learning mental silence was a nutritious part of the Holy Spirit meal of Divine Healing. :heaven:

We mindlessly repeated prayers dozens of times and don’t see any cognitive dissonance with Jesus telling us that lots of repeated words are not His favorite. We make public demonstrations of prayer for Good Causes and that doesn’t create cognitive dissonance with His saying that hypocrites pray in public so others may seem them praying. kpeople:

And someone advocates just sitting there, shutting up, quit trying to solve the world’s problems for a few minutes, and enjoying the presence of the I Am “be still and know that I am God.” This, and OMG we have to insist on scholarly studies of ancient writings before we know what is safe. :frighten:

And it will never be enough because Satan does not want us doing this kind of prayer because it takes away His power to keep us bound to our emotional whims. Keep feeding the strong man and not only will we fail to plunder his house, we will let him put us to work adding to the confusion and lies that we can behave our way into heaven. Basically get there without Jesus. :hey_bud:

Maybe I should go into the business of selling high cost water filtration systems to people perfectly good tap water. Scare them enough with parlor tricks and people don’t even want to drink water out of there own tap without the “experts” making it all OK – for a fee.