St. John of the Cross and Emptying the Mind

[Sirach2]

This thread has got me thinking and raised a question or two. Not quite sure how to ask this but here goes…
Is actively thinking about God all the time the same as contemplating Him all the time?

This is sometimes called “acquired” contemplation, since we may "acquire the habit of continually thinking of God. Some call it the “prayer of recollection.” But contemplation, in its true sense where God infuses the soul into a supernatural state of pure prayer being enveloped by Him in His presence, is a bit different. Very often, when writers use the term, we have to distinguish which form they are speaking of, so their meaning is not misunderstood.

It is like in order to just sit quietly in His presence I have not only to let go of thoughts that pertain to things like my children, the news, how I am going to make ends meet but also to let go of activity thinking about God. Like letting go of any image or thought of seeing God with my imagination. Do we need to also let go of actively thinking about God in order to reach a state of contemplation?

In my experience, before I even knew anything about contemplation, my prayer just evolved very naturally, from one stage to the next, being continually drawn by God. He will not ordinarily bring a soul to, for example, the 4th mansion, without passing from the earlier ones. We need to be careful how we speak about this to souls, especially if they are not ready for this stage.

While we are “in His presence” as you mentioned above, we simply let the Lord lead our prayer time. It is not good just to void the mind of all extraneous thoughts and force the mind to “contemplate” Him. Very often, in our prayer, as we are lovingly attentive to Him, perhaps in our heart to heart conversation, meditation, or whatever we are drawn to do in those moments, He may lift the soul into deeper infused prayer, and that is when we let go of “thinking” in order just to BE with Him in quiet love.

When we can no longer meditate, which is quite another advancing stage of prayer, then we need to follow St. John’s advice, and NOT before! I believe DBT mentioned these signs earlier in the thread. It is at this juncture that the memory gets troublesome, since the “will” is generally united to God in peace and quiet, so the other two faculties resemble little children who like to bother mommy when she is ignoring them. THAT is when we strive to abort these thoughts that memory stirs up, before they pull us into many other useless reflections. Not easily done.

I find that it is very painful interiorly for me to be distracted often at Mass or during the LoTH, but I just recall St.Teresa’s words that these are pesky flies that we should pay no attention to, and bring one’s focus back where it belongs. One of the saints, I forget who at this moment, was told by Our Lord that these distractions may last one’s entire life. It is a result of original sin.

 

[hazcompat]

St John Of The Cross

The place of judgment in spiritual direction may be seen in determining the readiness of a person for contemplative prayer. Beginners in the practice of prayer usually concentrate on discursive meditation, employing the senses, imagination, and intellect to form mental images of God, Jesus Christ, or other holy objects. These images in turn lead to the formulation of spiritual thoughts and incite the will to feelings of love for God. However, in themselves, these images are remote rather than proximate means of the intellect’s union with God. The Transcendent God can never be adequately portrayed by mental images drawn from sensible experiences nor contained in the accompanying thoughts and feelings. Eventually, the psychological activities of discursive meditation are replaced by one general act of loving attentiveness to God, the soul’s sensible and spiritual faculties at rest allowing God to infuse a loving knowledge of Himself immmediately into the soul without the operation of the human faculties.

To determine when the transition from discursive meditation to simple contemplation is taking place, a person must recognize three signs occuring simultaneously in his prayer
life. These are: inability to meditate (no puede meditar) and find satisfaction in meditation; disinclination (da niguna gana) to employ one’s sense faculties and imagination upon particular devotional objects; and a desire (el alma gusta) to remain alone in loving awareness of God, without employing the faculties of intellect, will, and memory in active meditation.1 John writes:

To leave safely the state of meditation and sense and enter that of contemplation and spirit, the spiritual person must observe within himseif at least these three signs together (estas tres señales ha de ver en sí juntas).

All three signs must be present before a person is ready to move from meditation to contemplation. The first sign without the second may indicate dissipation or lack of diligence rather than readiness for contemplation. The first two signs without the third may indicate a mental or emotional disturbance that leaves one unable or disinclined to meditate. Consequently, one must experience these three phenomena together before the judgment can be made that one is ready to give up meditation for contemplation. This practical judgment about a person’s readiness for contemplative prayer is critical for his growth in faith. To judge, on the one hand, that one should force himself to continue discursive meditation when all three signs are present is to hinder the work of God who is leading the person to deeper faith through infused contemplation.1 On the other hand, to give up meditation only because one finds it distasteful is to misjudge one’s readiness for contemplation and to run the risk of giving up altogether the prayer which is necessary for faith to grow.2 In both cases, the mistaken judgment retards the person’s growth in faith.

Human reason and practical judgment are thus indispensable tools for evaluating the experience of a person and therefore are important in spiritual direction even though the master-disciple relationship is essentially a faith process which demands approaching God through unknowing rather than knowing. The unknowing of faith refers to the inability of the human intellect to know God as He is through normal cognitive processes. The only adequate knowledge of God in this life occurs through faith when God bestows a general, loving knowledge of himself directly upon the soul without the activity of the cognitive faculties. However, reason and iudgment play a prominent role in cultivating that faith wherein the human intellect is united with God.

carmelitesofeldridge.org/juan17.html

Peace

 

[JimR-OCDS]

In contemplative prayer, or as St Teresa referred to as Mental Prayer, we’re not thinking of an image of God, such as what we imagine Him from Scripture, or some other video playing our minds.

Rather, our focus is being in His presence as He is in the present moment dwelling deep within our very beings.

What He reveals of Himself is His gift and according to His will and it always comes to us through love.

In prayer, whether quiet interior prayer, or discursive prayer, we merely place ourselves in His presence and wait on Him with love.

Of course the virtue here is humility in that we wait on God with love and patience, rather than trying to force our own agenda for a spiritual experience.

I think it’s why St John of the Cross stressed the need for the practice of detachment from our appetites so much. Not only the appetites of the flesh, but the appetites for the desire for spiritual ecstasies and consolations, which are often ego driven.

If we open to God in humility, He will provide the transforming grace which will have us become the persons he had in mind when he created us.

As before, prayer is the only way to open ourselves to God.

OK, I must sound like I’m preaching, so I’ll stop.

Centered In Christ
Jim

 

[DBT]

The story of Montag in the chapter on Leaking Cisterns in Fr. Marc Foley’s “Ascent of Mt. Carmel Reflections” is a good meditation.
“Once as a child, Montag had sat upon a yellow dune by the sea, trying to fill a sieve with sand, because some cruel cousin had said, ‘Fill this sieve and you’ll get a dime!’ And the faster he poured, the faster it sifted through with a hot whispering. His hands were tired, the sand was boiling, the sieve was empty. Seated there in the midst of July, without a sound, he felt the tears move down his cheeks. Montag’s attempt to fill the sieve with sand illustrates the irrational blindness at the heart of our inordinate appetites. His desire for the dime blinded him to the utter futility of his pursuit, which in the end left him utterly weary and empty.”
It could be easily determined that our thoughts, stirred by unruly memories, can be equivalent to filling a sieve with sand, with such meager and futile results as a darn dime. Wouldn’t it be great if we could put a stop to these unfruitful wanderings of the imagination and turn them to God who is the fullness of our joy!

And here’s my favorite story from Father’s book regarding the purification of the memory …
The Ascent of Mount Carmel-Reflections:

Once, two monks came to a river where a young woman, wary of crossing, was standing. The older monk offered his assistance and carried her across the river on his back. After he set her down on the other side, the two monks continued their journey in silence. The younger monk was very disturbed and preoccupied regarding what he had just witnessed. Many hours later he erupted with indignation: How could you do such a thing! Our training tells us to avoid contact with women, but you picked her up and carried her. The old monk replied, Yes but I set her down at the river bank. Why are you still carrying her?

As Father describes, the moral of the story is this:

“People are not required to stop recalling and thinking about what they must do and know. But what John does advocate is that we cease unnecessary thinking and that we do not willfully recall images and experiences to mind that distract us from God.”

The young monk is guilty of a very common theme from Book 3 of The Ascent … “do not store up into memory.” The older monk, on the other hand, followed the saint’s admonition … “leave immediately and forget.”

To put it more personally, I see the teaching can be described from a slightly different slant …. that there’s a big difference between distraction and preoccupation.

Distractions are a natural occurrence and we will never be free of them. So we should never be troubled … simply remain peaceful in their presence and brush them aside as the pesky little flies that they are.

Preoccupations, on the other hand, now they are another thing entirely!! Why? Because we CHOOSE them just as this little story describes. And then they become ingrained into our soul as we inflame the emotion further by continual mental rehashing. And then in the blink of the eye, a seemingly harmless attachment becomes disordered and inordinate … the longer we allow it to persist.

Distractions are a nuisance to recollection … preoccupations kill recollection dead in the tracks.

Dave

 

[Sirach2]

Distractions are a nuisance to recollection … preoccupations kill recollection dead in the tracks.

Dave

Excellent, Dave, and well said - so simply! Thank you for taking a few minutes to help us see the difference between these two uses of the memory.

 

[ajecphotos]

I agree and being that we are all different it can be worse for some! Thats me! Got to change and i do ask God to help me.

 

[christofirst]

We’re blessed today to have contemporary authors who provide us with good information on contemplative prayer, which is approved by the Church.

They tell us that as we become more experienced in the practice of contemplative prayer, that the erroneous thoughts which come into our mind not only come slower, but now we have an awareness of them and what to do with them.

As Fr Thomas Keating says, when you become aware of a thought which is about to take you away from prayer, do give commentary to it, for once you do, you’ll be pulled away from your center, which is where God is.

Instead, let the thought go, let it evaporate and return to the focus of your intention, which is Christ dwelling with in. For myself, I use a prayer word, “Lord Jesus,” which I gently return to.

For others, it may be their breath or some Scripture verse. For most however, what they came to find that works will be what they’ll keep in prayer for most of their lives.

In all, do not become anxious, nor try to work aggressively at interior prayer, it will only be a disaster to do so.

Be gentle as Christ is gentle. Offer yourselves completely to Him.

Remember, no book will provide you with the experience of contemplative prayer.

Only actually praying and being open to God will this take place. Books are merely a guide.

Jim

I don’t want to sidetrack the thread, but I often find that I am better able to understand contemporary guides like Keating, over the great spiritual writers of old, like St. John of the Cross. I wonder how today’s guides to contemplative prayer will stand the test of time. Will people still be reading Keating in 500 years? Will his writings be considered milestones of spiritual literature like John of the Cross, or will they fade into obscurity? I also wonder how St. John of the Cross was received in his day. Did people view him with suspicion? Did they warn others to avoid his writings? From what I know, he was caught up in controversy and imprisoned for a time. These are the sorts of questions which keep me from emptying my mind .

 

[hazcompat]

ewtn.com/library/MARY/CEJOHNCR.HTM

Peace

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I don’t want to sidetrack the thread, but I often find that I am better able to understand contemporary guides like Keating, over the great spiritual writers of old, like St. John of the Cross. I wonder how today’s guides to contemplative prayer will stand the test of time. Will people still be reading Keating in 500 years? Will his writings be considered milestones of spiritual literature like John of the Cross, or will they fade into obscurity? I also wonder how St. John of the Cross was received in his day. Did people view him with suspicion? Did they warn others to avoid his writings? From what I know, he was caught up in controversy and imprisoned for a time. These are the sorts of questions which keep me from emptying my mind .

Contermporary authors are certainly easier to understand for us. In 500 years that may be a completely different situation.

 

[simple_soul]

While we are “in His presence” as you mentioned above, we simply let the Lord lead our prayer time.** It is not good just to void the mind of all extraneous thoughts and force the mind to “contemplate” Him. ** Very often, in our prayer, as we are lovingly attentive to Him, perhaps in our heart to heart conversation, meditation, or whatever we are drawn to do in those moments, He may lift the soul into deeper infused prayer, and that is when we let go of “thinking” in order just to BE with Him in quiet love.

Hi Sirach…thanks for responding. This part of your post struck me…why is so much enphasis but on not “voiding” the mind? Is it even possible to do that? If one can do that how does one do it? I am really currious about this mainly because I hear or read so many people caution against “voiding the mind” and it suddenly came to me yesterday after reading your post that it really would be seemingly impossible to void ones mind. From what I understand it seems to be an impossible thing to do. Is it?

 

[christofirst]

Contermporary authors are certainly easier to understand for us. In 500 years that may be a completely different situation.

It occurs to me that John of the Cross might have intentionally made his writing difficult to grasp, like veiling it in poetry, in order to avoid running afoul of the religious authorities of his day, but I am only speculating.

You’re right, in 500 years, writing could be like an even more abbreviated version of today’s text messaging, and know one but scholars will be able decipher what was written today.

 

[christofirst]

ewtn.com/library/MARY/CEJOHNCR.HTM

Peace

Thank you for posting this link.

 

[DBT]

Simple Soul -

As several posters mentioned, St. John’s teaching isn’t about trying not to think or creating some sort of “blankness” in our mind or anything like that. That type of interpretation, to be honest, is a distortion of his true meaning.

Part of the problem, I think, has to do with the language barrier and the scholastic meaning of his words. Translation of his work from Spanish to English leaves us with words like oblivion, void, annihilate etc. Words like this have a specific meaning and context in English that, when read superficially, can lead to interpretations and conclusions altogether different from what the saint is actually saying. Fr. Foley’s book, mentioned a couple of times on this thread, does a really good job describing the true meaning and spirit behind the “harsh” words St. John uses with regard to memory.

So long story short, it’s not about blanking the mind … but learning to forget, ignore or turn away from the thoughts that separate us from our desire to remain in “loving attentiveness” to the Lord. This type of detachment or spiritual asceticism is the work-of-the-work behind all acquired contemplation methods. And even then, we don’t do it until the time is right (see St. John’s 3 signs).

Brother Lawrence describes it very well: As often as we realize God has drifted away from our thoughts, we simply return our mind and heart back to Him. Coincidently, today’s reading from midday prayer from the Liturgy of the Hours captures the spirit of St. John’s teaching to the core:

“As your hearts have been disposed to stray from God, turn now ten times the more to seek Him.” (Baruch 4:28)

Now, there may come a time when the flow of thoughts greatly recedes to the background of our awareness or, perhaps for a time, they disappear altogether. This however, is not something we can or should try to produce on our own because it is folly. Rather, if it happens, it is one sign that God is working passively in our soul. This slowing down or suspension of thoughts is one aspect of the experience of infused contemplation (not to be confused with acquired contemplation). Again this is entirely God’s doing.

Dave

 

[Sirach2]

Hi Sirach…thanks for responding. This part of your post struck me…why is so much enphasis but on not “voiding” the mind? Is it even possible to do that? If one can do that how does one do it? I am really currious about this mainly because I hear or read so many people caution against “voiding the mind” and it suddenly came to me yesterday after reading your post that it really would be seemingly impossible to void ones mind. From what I understand it seems to be an impossible thing to do. Is it?

The Carmelite Sister who taught us in our formation likened this phase to a married couple who have been together for many years. After a time, they can be together and just bask in one another’s presence, without any thoughts or communication, but just simply being together and loving the moment of togetherness. There is love present, and an awareness of the loved one, but there is no need to do anything other than just to be together, and maybe express an occasional word or two to each other.

Prayer has the same analogy, where after many months or years of meditation to come to know the beloved, the person is just content to BE in God’s presence, quietly attentive to Him, without a need to speak. In fact, trying to force meditation will disrupt peace in the soul, and it becomes virtually an unwelcome activity … the soul no longer wants to explore ideas “about” God, but it simply wants God alone, just to love Him, nothing else is needed. When it comes to prayer, one’s love of God is immediately there in full development. St. Teresa likened this way of prayer to peeling an orange. While there is still rind to peel (discovery through meditation), we should continue our labor. But when the rind is all removed, it is fruitless (pun ) to try and peel more rind. Understand?

That’s why forcing the mind when the soul has not passed through this initial period of meditation for a number of years, is very dangerous and will not produce any such contemplation, but it is simply an empty mind that is incapable of being with God, since He has not led the soul to that point of readiness.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I don’t want to sidetrack the thread, but I often find that I am better able to understand contemporary guides like Keating, over the great spiritual writers of old, like St. John of the Cross. I wonder how today’s guides to contemplative prayer will stand the test of time. Will people still be reading Keating in 500 years? Will his writings be considered milestones of spiritual literature like John of the Cross, or will they fade into obscurity? I also wonder how St. John of the Cross was received in his day. Did people view him with suspicion? Did they warn others to avoid his writings? From what I know, he was caught up in controversy and imprisoned for a time. These are the sorts of questions which keep me from emptying my mind .

Contemporary writers are easier for us to read, for the works we’re reading, are writen in our language and the words and terms are more familiar. They also have the hindsight of 500 years of people using St John and St Teresa’s teachings and so there is greater knowledge today about contemplative prayer.

St John of the Cross was imprisoned by his own order and St Teresa of Avila was called before the Spanish Inquisition for what she was teaching, so that gives you an idea how well their teachings were received.

Will Thomas Keating’s works be held in high regard 500 years from now ?

Only God knows.

Jim

 

[DBT]

Simple Soul -

A quick clarification in case my last post causes any confusion. My basic point is that it is an erroneous notion that contemplation (acquired or otherwise) is a matter of forcing oneself not to think. I believe Sirach concluded her post with that same basic concept as well. However, she also brought up the equally true idea that for souls who have passed through St. John’s 3 signs it is just as spiritually detrimental to force oneself to think. The time for that (meditation) has passed … loving attentiveness is now the way.

In both cases the error is the same … “forcing” the issue. Proper management of thoughts - whether one is meditating or contemplating - is a matter of gentleness and simplicity. Intuition, really – and that’s why the Holy Spirit is our true teacher in these matters.

Dave

 

[ajecphotos]

This is such an informative thread!

 

[Michael_Mayo]

In Ascent Book 2 Chapter one:

1. And thus the soul that journeys through this night, we may say, journeys in concealment and in hiding from the devil, as will be more clearly seen hereafter. Wherefore the soul says that it went forth ‘in darkness and secure’; for one that has such happiness as to be able to journey through the darkness of faith, taking faith for his guide, like to one that is blind, and leaving behind all natural imaginings and spiritual reasonings, journeys very securely, as we have said.

This darkness of faith also then reminds me of the the deserts we walk through without seeking them and the darkness we encounter without desiring them in daily life. And yet, if we have faith and abandon ourselves to God’s will in these difficult times we journey in security. It is not just about our moments of prayer but about our entire attitude toward life.

The key seems to be “letting go” of all else that we cling to and surrendering to God who is beyond our grasp, infinite, eternal and boundless…yet carries and caresses us, sometimes without our knowing.

1. It must be known, then, that the soul, after it has been definitely converted to the service
   of God, is, as a rule, spiritually nurtured and caressed by God, even as is the tender child by
   its loving mother, who warms it with the heat of her bosom and nurtures it with sweet milk
   and soft and pleasant food, and carries it and caresses it in her arms; but, as the child grows
   bigger, the mother gradually ceases caressing it, and, hiding her tender love, puts bitter aloes
   upon her sweet breast, sets down the child from her arms and makes it walk upon its feet,
   so that it may lose the habits of a child and betake itself to more important and substantial
   occupations.

Dark Night Book I chapter 1
ccel.org/ccel/john_cross/dark_night.pdf

 

[simple_soul]

Simple Soul -

A quick clarification in case my last post causes any confusion. ** My basic point is that it is an erroneous notion that contemplation (acquired or otherwise) is a matter of forcing oneself not to think**. I believe Sirach concluded her post with that same basic concept as well. However, she also brought up the equally true idea that for souls who have passed through St. John’s 3 signs it is just as spiritually detrimental to force oneself to think. The time for that (meditation) has passed … loving attentiveness is now the way.

In both cases the error is the same … “forcing” the issue. Proper management of thoughts - whether one is meditating or contemplating - is a matter of gentleness and simplicity. Intuition, really – and that’s why the Holy Spirit is our true teacher in these matters.

Dave

Thank you David and Sirach for your posts. I do believe for some reason that I do have a clearer picture of this. In the part that I emphasized of Dave’s post here is what I was wondering about. Why do so many people believe one can force oneself to not think. Is that something anyone can really do? Can I really force myself to not think about things any more? I understand that some people beleive others do this and strive to do this but is that really what they are doing?

 

[DBT]

In the part that I emphasized of Dave’s post here is what I was wondering about. Why do so many people believe one can force oneself to not think. Is that something anyone can really do? Can I really force myself to not think about things any more? I understand that some people beleive others do this and strive to do this but is that really what they are doing?

Apologies in advance … it’s soap box time. The honest answer … the people who say such things don’t know what they’re talking about.

People who know about contemplation and have experienced it never say such things. From my experience on these forums - 10+ years on strictly contemplative related threads - the only people who say such things are the nay-sayers who want to tie millstones around the necks of beautiful souls who have learned to soar to the Lord in contemplative love. It is usually a charge leveled against contemplatives to get them to stop praying as they are being led by the Holy Spirit … or worse brand them as heretics. At times it gets so bad around these forums that it simply isn’t worth coming around. It is very, very frustrating to be told by those with no experience in such matters that you are doing something you simply are not doing. But such is the case.

But this is a dilemma and spiritual tension that is as old as the hills. It happened in St. Teresa and John’s day … why would we think it wouldn’t happen now?

But I don’t want to say more because I don’t want to derail this very wonderful thread Michael has started. I thank you Michael for opening the door for so many people to speak of the wonderful ways of prayer by which they are being led.

May the Holy Spirit lead us all … now and always!

Dave