St. John of the Cross and Emptying the Mind

[houston1]

I posted this in response to DBT post regarding “ST. THERESE AS PRACTICAL EXAMPLE” I have read your posts, and all the posts in this thread. Struggling against is sanctifying. The only thing I would offer for your cosideration is:

Abandonment to Divine Providence
by
Jean-Pierre de Caussade

SECTION III.—The Work of our Sanctification.

Would to God that kings, and their ministers, princes of the Church and of the world, priests and soldiers, the peasantry and labourers, in a word, all men could know how very easy it would be for them to arrive at a high degree of sanctity. They would only have to fulfil the simple duties of Christianity and of their state of life; to embrace with submission the crosses belonging to that state, and to submit with faith and love to the designs of Providence in all those things that have to be done or suffered without going out of their way to seek occasions for themselves. This is the spirit by which the patriarchs and prophets were animated and sanctified before there were so many systems of so many masters of the spiritual life. This is the spirituality of all ages and of every state. No state of life can, assuredly, be sanctified in a more exalted manner, nor in a more wonderful and easy way than by the simple use of the means that God, the sovereign director of souls, gives them to do or to suffer at each moment.

Perfection consists in doing the will of God, not in understanding His designs.

Sin is contrary to the will of God.

Peace

hazcombat,

Thank you. I appreciate your reminding me of this book. I read it a couple of years ago at the recommendation of someone on the CAF. I agree that perfection is available to each of us here and now through the simple means of our circumstances. I also know that God wills our perfection more than we do. So, all we must do is cooperate with His grace sanctifying all our thoughts, words, and actions from moment to moment, living in the present moment, forgetting the past, and pressing on to our “upward calling in Christ Jesus.” This entails being faithful to the inspirations of the Holy Spirit given in the present moment. And, many times much discernment is needed to sift through the noise of the world and of the enemy to hear the true promptings from God and also to determine how much is too much and how little is too little.

Yet, God is available to guide us even amidst confusion, discouragement, and sorrow when we have great trouble in hearing His voice. He desires that we come before Him exposed, as we are, not pretending to be more virtuous than we are nor desiring something more noble than we do. We should open ourselves fully to the Divine Healer, to allow Him use what we have and what we are for His glory. In hiding our disappointments, expectations, and failings from Him we only end up fooling ourselves because He knows everything already.

It seems to me that to sanctify each moment one should consider what the most loving thing would be to do at that moment and then follow through. Sometimes one will make mistakes in judging what to do. But, so long as the intention is good, God will be pleased and use all of it for good. My spiritual director gave me good advice when facing situations where there are multiple demands on one’s time, including time to rest and refresh oneself. . ., that is, assuming all things are equal, the one with the greater need prevails and should take precedence.

In my current situation where I desire to have a friendship with my soon-to-be pastor, I don’t worry that my feelings are not in line with my will. And, I do not pretend with God that I am satisfied with how things are. Yet, I have accepted that God knows what is best even if He chooses to keep me in the dark and that I may have a lifetime more of this interior trial. I’ve done everything I can do through His enlightenment. Now, the ball is in His court. At least I know the ultimate outcome is victory.

Thanks for your post.

houston1

 

[houston1]

I posted this in response to DBT post regarding “ST. THERESE AS PRACTICAL EXAMPLE” I have read your posts, and all the posts in this thread. Struggling against is sanctifying. The only thing I would offer for your cosideration is:

Abandonment to Divine Providence
by
Jean-Pierre de Caussade

SECTION III.—The Work of our Sanctification.
…All you who strive after perfection and who are tempted to discouragement at the remembrance of what you have read in the lives of the saints, and of what certain pious books prescribe; O you who are appalled by the terrible ideas of perfection that you have formed for yourselves; it is for your consolation that God has willed me to write this. Learn that of which you seem to be ignorant. This God of all goodness has made those things easy which are common and necessary in the order of nature, such as breathing, eating, and sleeping. No less necessary in the supernatural order are love and fidelity, therefore it must needs be that the difficulty of acquiring them is by no means so great as is generally represented. …If man fulfils his part God will do the rest. Grace being bestowed only on this condition the marvels it effects are beyond the comprehension of man. For neither ear has heard nor eye seen, nor has it entered the mind what things God has planned in His omniscience, determined in His will, and carried out by His power in the souls given up entirely to Him. The passive part of sanctity is still more easy since it only consists in accepting that which we very often have no power to prevent, and in suffering lovingly, that is to say with sweetness and consolation, those things that too often cause weariness and disgust. Once more I repeat, in this consists sanctity. This is the grain of mustard
seed which is the smallest of all the seeds, the fruits of which can neither be recognised nor gathered. It is the drachma of the Gospel, the treasure that none discover because they suppose it to be too far away to be sought. Do not ask me how this treasure can be found. It is no secret. The treasure is everywhere, it is offered to us at all times and wherever we may be. All creatures, both friends and enemies pour it out with prodigality, and it flows like a fountain through every faculty of body and soul even to the very centre of our hearts. If we open our mouths they will be filled. The divine activity permeates the whole universe, it pervades every creature; wherever they are it is there; it goes before them, with them, and it follows them; all they have to do is to let the waves bear them
on.
Would to God that kings, and their ministers, princes of the Church and of the world, priests and soldiers, the peasantry and labourers, in a word, all men could know how very easy it would be for them to arrive at a high degree of sanctity. They would only have to fulfil the simple duties of Christianity and of their state of life; to embrace with submission the crosses belonging to that state, and to submit with faith and love to the designs of Providence in all those things that have to be done or suffered without going out of their way to seek occasions for themselves. This is the spirit by which the patriarchs and prophets were animated and sanctified before there were so many systems of so many masters of the spiritual life. This is the spirituality of all ages and of every state. No state of life can, assuredly, be sanctified in a more exalted manner, nor in a more wonderful and easy way than by the simple use of the means that God, the sovereign director of souls, gives them to do or to suffer at each moment.

Perfection consists in doing the will of God, not in understanding His designs.

Sin is contrary to the will of God.

Peace

houston1,

how do you define “friendship” as used in your previous post?

Peace

Some kind of spiritual friendship. . . some kind of working relationship with the common goal of saving souls. . . . I am open to how this will be manifested.

 

[houston1]

I believe it is a temptation, and so as not to derail this thread, I sent an answer in your original thread.

Sirach2,

Please consider what you have written to someone who is apparently distressed as I appear to be. Is this how one should encourage and counsel another in Christian charity? It seems that an elaboration of what you mean by temptation and what you suggest that I should do to overcome it would be appropriate. It is curious to me that my spiritual director has not drawn this conclusion. Should I find another spiritual director?

houston1

 

[houston1]

I believe it is a temptation, and so as not to derail this thread, I sent an answer in your original thread.

Houston, thank you for your honest sharing. The strong “feelings” you describe is almost like some kind of crush. It sounds so intense that you feel “suffering” when you do not get enough opportunity to work with him. You feel it as a trial when your own desire is not fulfilled.

As we grow in holiness and our genuine love of God, we will put away our personal desires when we serve. The priest may have his good reason to only accept your help but not initiate it. What you described appears to be a temptation to overcome. We all need to overcome temptations. It is part of the purification.

InLight247,

I just responded to Sirach2 and ask you also to read my response to the post since you also claim this is a temptation. If this is a temptation, what do you recommend that I do? Should I also find another spiritual director since he does not draw that conclusion? I need to know because I do not want to be counseled by one who is doing the enemy’s bidding.

houston1

 

[hazcompat]

Some kind of spiritual friendship. . . some kind of working relationship with the common goal of saving souls. . . . I am open to how this will be manifested.

“God grant me patience, and grant it right now!” I think St. Augustine is credited with this one. Instant perfection would makes so full of pride it might endanger our eternal well being?

Saint Theresa Benedicta of the Cross explaining Saint John of the Cross says’

The saint gives several concise directions of which he himself says: “A person who sincerely wants to practice them will need no others since all the others are included in these.” These directions are: “1) Sustain always the desire to imitate Christ in all things and to bring your life into conformity with his. You must therefore study his life in order to imitate it and behave always as he would. “2) In order to do this well, you must deny yourself every pleasure that presents itself to your senses, keep it far from you if it is not solely directed to the honor and glory of God.

“And in fact you should do this out of love for Jesus who knew no other joy and had no desire in his life other than to fulfill the will of his Father. He called this his food and nourishment [Jn 4:34]. If, for instance, some amusement offers itself to you in hearing of things that do not contribute to the service of God, then you should neither have pleasure in them nor wish to hear them. . . . Likewise, practice renunciation in regard to all your senses, for as much as you are able to refuse their impressions readily. Insofar as you are unable to ward them off, it is sufficient that you take no enjoyment when these things approach you. Take care how you mortify your senses and preserve them from being touched by any inordinate desire. Then they will remain alike in darkness and in a short time you will make great progress.

“The following maxims will serve as a thoroughly effective means of mortification and of harmoniously ordering the four natural passions: joy, hope, fear, and sorrow. For where these passions are calmed and well ordered, the above named good things plus many others can flourish. That is why these maxims are of great value and are the root of great virtues. Take care that your inclination is ever directed: not toward the easier, but toward the more difficult; not toward the pleasant, but toward the unpleasant; not toward the restful, but toward the troublesome; not toward the more, but toward the less; not toward what brings you more joy, but what brings displeasure; not toward what prepares consolation for you, but toward what makes you disconsolate; not toward the higher and more valuable, but toward the lowly and insignificant; not toward what wants to be something, but toward what wants to be nothing. “Seek not what is the better in things, but what is worse. Demand for the sake of Christ to enter into total denudation and freedom and poverty from all there is in the world. You should embrace these works from your heart and take care that your will rises to the task. . . . If what is said here is truly carried out, it will suffice to give entry into the night of the senses.”

Stein, Edith (2011-03-17). The Science of the Cross (The Collected Works of Edith Stein Vol. 6) (Kindle Locations 1120-1124). ICS Publications. Kindle Edition.

I will pray for your good.

Peace

 

[Sirach2]

Sirach2,

Please consider what you have written to someone who is apparently distressed as I appear to be. Is this how one should encourage and counsel another in Christian charity? It seems that an elaboration of what you mean by temptation and what you suggest that I should do to overcome it would be appropriate.

I gave counsel in charity. Do you want me to sugar-coat it? My reply (did you read the other thread?) was written to help you discern your true motive, and I offered advice that St. Therese, a Doctor of the Church, wrote about her own inordinate affections. One may be tempted to be “special” in the eyes of one’s Superior, be it a nun or a priest. As a priest, he is in the same position of Mother Superior, being called to love all equally and not elevate anyone to special favoritism. On his part, that would also be a temptation, and could well be the reason for his keeping strict custody of his relationships.

St. Therese also experienced this temptation in reverse, where another sister wanted exclusive friendship with her. She administered tough love after much prayer, and put that temptation to flight so their friendship would not fall into exclusivity and attachment. She did not sugar coat it, either. Let me know if you need the page.

This is completely derailing the topic to focus on your specific problem, and I ask that you take it to the other thread, rather than here.

 

[houston1]

I gave counsel in charity. Do you want me to sugar-coat it? My reply (did you read the other thread?) was written to help you discern your true motive, and I offered advice that St. Therese, a Doctor of the Church, wrote about her own inordinate affections. One may be tempted to be “special” in the eyes of one’s Superior, be it a nun or a priest. As a priest, he is in the same position of Mother Superior, being called to love all equally and not elevate anyone to special favoritism. On his part, that would also be a temptation, and could well be the reason for his keeping strict custody of his relationships.

St. Therese also experienced this temptation in reverse, where another sister wanted exclusive friendship with her. She administered tough love after much prayer, and put that temptation to flight so their friendship would not fall into exclusivity and attachment. She did not sugar coat it, either. Let me know if you need the page.

This is completely derailing the topic to focus on your specific problem, and I ask that you take it to the other thread, rather than here.

Sirach2,

My apologies. I will stop posting. I did not mean to derail the thread.

houston1

 

[InLight247]

InLight247,

I just responded to Sirach2 and ask you also to read my response to the post since you also claim this is a temptation. If this is a temptation, what do you recommend that I do? Should I also find another spiritual director since he does not draw that conclusion? I need to know because I do not want to be counseled by one who is doing the enemy’s bidding.

houston1

Houston, you have mentioned the priest you want to develop closer friendship with was your first choice of SD. But he could not be your SD, so you found your current SD. I would not change SD easily.

Based on the description of your intense distress, it appears to be a temptation of attachment. You are interested in the teaching of St. John of the Cross. The entire book of *Ascent of Mount Carmel *is about detachment. This could be a practical case to practice detachment, both emotionally and psychologically. God bless!

 

[houston1]

I gave counsel in charity. Do you want me to sugar-coat it? My reply (did you read the other thread?) was written to help you discern your true motive, and I offered advice that St. Therese, a Doctor of the Church, wrote about her own inordinate affections. One may be tempted to be “special” in the eyes of one’s Superior, be it a nun or a priest. As a priest, he is in the same position of Mother Superior, being called to love all equally and not elevate anyone to special favoritism. On his part, that would also be a temptation, and could well be the reason for his keeping strict custody of his relationships.

St. Therese also experienced this temptation in reverse, where another sister wanted exclusive friendship with her. She administered tough love after much prayer, and put that temptation to flight so their friendship would not fall into exclusivity and attachment. She did not sugar coat it, either. Let me know if you need the page.

This is completely derailing the topic to focus on your specific problem, and I ask that you take it to the other thread, rather than here.

Sirach2,

And, yes, I did read your post but had forgotten it since it’s been a while since I posted it. I will consider what you’ve written. I suppose I reacted emotionally because I find myself in a predicament and am looking everywhere for counsel. I apologize. I can see now that you mean well and spoke in charity.

houston1

 

[houston1]

Houston, you have mentioned the priest you want to develop closer friendship with was your first choice of SD. But he could not be your SD, so you found your current SD. I would not change SD easily.

Based on the description of your intense distress, it appears to be a temptation of attachment. You are interested in the teaching of St. John of the Cross. The entire book of *Ascent of Mount Carmel *is about detachment. This could be a practical case to practice detachment, both emotionally and psychologically. God bless!

InLight247,

Thank you for taking the time to discuss my personal problem on this thread. I apologize for derailing it and will be mindful of this in the future. I have read the Ascent to Mount Carmel and hope with the help of God’s grace to employ everything St. John of the Cross discusses in the book. I will pray to overcome this attachment. I certainly desire not to have it. And, yes, at first I thought the desire related to my wanting this priest for a SD. But, I now have another priest for a SD who I have been seeing since January 2013. Unless you feel that I am being ill-advised by this priest, I will keep him.

houston1

 

[houston1]

“God grant me patience, and grant it right now!” I think St. Augustine is credited with this one. Instant perfection would makes so full of pride it might endanger our eternal well being?

Saint Theresa Benedicta of the Cross explaining Saint John of the Cross says’

The saint gives several concise directions of which he himself says: “A person who sincerely wants to practice them will need no others since all the others are included in these.” These directions are: “1) Sustain always the desire to imitate Christ in all things and to bring your life into conformity with his. You must therefore study his life in order to imitate it and behave always as he would. “2) In order to do this well, you must deny yourself every pleasure that presents itself to your senses, keep it far from you if it is not solely directed to the honor and glory of God.

“And in fact you should do this out of love for Jesus who knew no other joy and had no desire in his life other than to fulfill the will of his Father. He called this his food and nourishment [Jn 4:34]. If, for instance, some amusement offers itself to you in hearing of things that do not contribute to the service of God, then you should neither have pleasure in them nor wish to hear them. . . . Likewise, practice renunciation in regard to all your senses, for as much as you are able to refuse their impressions readily. Insofar as you are unable to ward them off, it is sufficient that you take no enjoyment when these things approach you. Take care how you mortify your senses and preserve them from being touched by any inordinate desire. Then they will remain alike in darkness and in a short time you will make great progress.

“The following maxims will serve as a thoroughly effective means of mortification and of harmoniously ordering the four natural passions: joy, hope, fear, and sorrow. For where these passions are calmed and well ordered, the above named good things plus many others can flourish. That is why these maxims are of great value and are the root of great virtues. Take care that your inclination is ever directed: not toward the easier, but toward the more difficult; not toward the pleasant, but toward the unpleasant; not toward the restful, but toward the troublesome; not toward the more, but toward the less; not toward what brings you more joy, but what brings displeasure; not toward what prepares consolation for you, but toward what makes you disconsolate; not toward the higher and more valuable, but toward the lowly and insignificant; not toward what wants to be something, but toward what wants to be nothing. “Seek not what is the better in things, but what is worse. Demand for the sake of Christ to enter into total denudation and freedom and poverty from all there is in the world. You should embrace these works from your heart and take care that your will rises to the task. . . . If what is said here is truly carried out, it will suffice to give entry into the night of the senses.”

Stein, Edith (2011-03-17). The Science of the Cross (The Collected Works of Edith Stein Vol. 6) (Kindle Locations 1120-1124). ICS Publications. Kindle Edition.

I will pray for your good.

Peace

hazcompat,

Thank you for this quote. I bought this book a while back at the recommendation of someone on the CAF. I have not read it but plan to do so. I will ponder the maxims and employ them as best I can with the help of God’s grace.

Thank you for your prayers and for your thoughtful posts. I will pray for you, too.

houston1

 

[InLight247]

Houston1, Spiritual direction is a special relationship, we are not supposed to easily change our SD. Stay with the current one God has sent to you.

I have been following and enjoying this thread. The purpose of discussing St. John is to help us apply his teaching to our lives. Attachment and detachment is an important part of St. John’s teaching. Bringing up your practical concerns may not necessarily be derailing the thread, I hope. All the informative posts are great. And it is good to relate them with our practical concerns.

 

[houston1]

Houston1, Spiritual direction is a special relationship, we are not supposed to easily change our SD. Stay with the current one God has sent to you.

I have been following and enjoying this thread. The purpose of discussing St. John is to help us apply his teaching to our lives. Attachment and detachment is an important part of St. John’s teaching. Bringing up your practical concerns may not necessarily be derailing the thread, I hope. All the informative posts are great. And it is good to relate them with our practical concerns.

InLight247,

Thanks. This thread has given me a lot to think and pray about, particularly your and Sirach2’s posts which, at first, I found unnerving. But now that I consider them more, I feel hopeful as I am discovering that your insights didn’t cause me to lose anything. I needed the contradiction, really. Thank you, both.

I realize that God will accomplish His will and is not dependent on my notions of how things ought to go. What I mean is that, perhaps, I do have an attachment but more of an attachment to my idea of how the relationship should develop and not trusting God to work it His way, the better way: i.e., my attitude toward God is effectively this, “God, I did thus and so. Now you owe me. Do your part.” Not sure if that makes sense. I could also have an attachment to the priest although this doesn’t resonate too much with me, at least not at this time. I do think that I am trying to control the situation and not allow God to do His work in His time and in His way.

Thanks again. I will pray for you and all of those who posted on this wonderful thread.

houston1

 

[hazcompat]

Saint Mary Magdalene

Memorial

Mary Magdalene lived in the first century. She was the leader of the women who accompanied Jesus and the apostles on their journeys. She was present at Jesus’ crucifixion, burial and resurrection. Jesus sent her to announce the resurrection to the others, and so she was called the “apostle of the apostles.” From early times, she has been identified as the woman who anointed Jesus’ feet in Simon’s house and with Mary, the sister of Martha; however, most contemporary scholars now abandon this connection. Mary Magdalene is the patron saint of the contemplative life and of women.

Peace

 

[hazcompat]

Second reading
From a homily on the Gospels by Gregory the Great, pope
She longed for Christ, though she thought he had been taken away

When Mary Magdalene came to the tomb and did not find the Lord’s body, she thought it had been taken away and so informed the disciples. After they came and saw the tomb, they too believed what Mary had told them. The text then says: The disciples went back home, and it adds: but Mary wept and remained standing outside the tomb.

We should reflect on Mary’s attitude and the great love she felt for Christ; for though the disciples had left the tomb, she remained. She was still seeking the one she had not found, and while she sought she wept; burning with the fire of love, she longed for him who she thought had been taken away. And so it happened that the woman who stayed behind to seek Christ was the only one to see him. For perseverance is essential to any good deed, as the voice of truth tells us: Whoever perseveres to the end will be saved.

At first she sought but did not find, but when she persevered it happened that she found what she was looking for. When our desires are not satisfied, they grow stronger, and becoming stronger they take hold of their object. Holy desires likewise grow with anticipation, and if they do not grow they are not really desires. Anyone who succeeds in attaining the truth has burned with such a great love. As David says: My soul has thirsted for the living God; when shall I come and appear before the face of God? And so also in the Song of Songs the Church says: I was wounded by love; and again: My soul is melted with love.

Woman, why are you weeping? Whom do you seek? She is asked why she is sorrowing so that her desire might be strengthened; for when she mentions whom she is seeking, her love is kindled all the more ardently.

Jesus says to her: Mary. Jesus is not recognized when he calls her “woman”; so he calls her by name, as though he were saying: Recognize me as I recognize you; for I do not know you as I know others; I know you as yourself. And so Mary, once addressed by name, recognizes who is speaking. She immediately calls him rabboni, that is to say, teacher, because the one whom she sought outwardly was the one who inwardly taught her to keep on searching.

www.divineoffice.org

Peace

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I am still reading John. Done with *Ascent *and on chapter VIII book II of *Dark Night. *

With all this darkness and negative theology when does he get to light and something affirming?

 

[DBT]

I am still reading John. Done with *Ascent *and on chapter VIII book II of *Dark Night. *

With all this darkness and negative theology when does he get to light and something affirming?

Toward the end of The Dark Night, St. John speaks of the ladder of love. Here the tone begins to shift as he points the way where passive trials lead to unitive living. The unitive way, which is only hinted at in The Dark Night and The Ascent, is most fully developed in The Living Flame of Love and stanza’s 22-40 in Spiritual Canticle.

In keeping with the theme of this thread, St. John describes in Spiritual Canticle how the purification of the memory is now complete. The distracted, undisciplined and flighty mind that so plagues those those in the purgative and illuminative way is now habitually “centered” in Christ. It remains so without effort or even trying … the work of the active night (Ascent) and passive night (Dark Night) having served their purpose.

Dave

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I am still reading John. Done with *Ascent *and on chapter VIII book II of *Dark Night. *

With all this darkness and negative theology when does he get to light and something affirming?

For myself in my formation, not until I got into the Spiritual Canticle and Living Flame of Love.

Those two are my favorite.

Jim

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I read *Living Fame *about 30 years ago.

Next on my list.

Thanks.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Book II CHAPTER VIII

Of other pains which afflict the soul in this state.

BUT there is another thing here that afflicts and distresses the soul greatly, which is that, as
this dark night has hindered its faculties and affections in this way, it is unable to raise its
affection or its mind to God, neither can it pray to Him, thinking, as Jeremias thought
concerning himself, that God has set a cloud before it through which its prayer cannot
pass. For it is this that is meant by that which is said in the passage referred to, namely: ’
He hath shut and enclosed my paths with square stones.’ And if it sometimes prays it does
so with such lack of strength and of sweetness that it thinks that God neither hears it nor
pays heed to it, as this Prophet likewise declares in the same passage, saying: ‘When I cry
and entreat, He hath shut out my prayer.’ In truth this is no time for the soul to speak
with God; it should rather put its mouth in the dust, as Jeremias says, so that perchance
there may come to it some present hope, and it may endure its purgation with patience.

May we all endure purgation with patience.