St. Louis Archdiocese cutting ties with Girl Scouts

[losh14]

Commenter:
In their response, the Girl Scouts claim to be a secular organization. Yet they urge Catholics to oppose their own archbishop, offer sample letters to lobby against the Catholic Church. They don’t lobby against any other religious body. Why not? It is hard to perceive them as “neutral” on religion.

Name the other religions that are calling the Girl Scouts out. The GSEM claim they’ve been misrepresented and they’re allowed to say so. By the same token the Archdiocese has drafted sample letters (archstl.org/scouting#voice) for Catholics to send to GSEM asking them to cease supporting values contrary to the Catholic Faith and to end their affiliation with Sierra Club, Planned Parenthood and Amnesty International. It really looks like the Archbishop is treating GSEM as one of the other Girl Scout organizations that does have such affiliations, and asking them to stop doing things. It’s difficult to accept this as a fair characterization of the Girl Scouts when we don’t see these affiliations on their website, and we don’t see the anti-Catholic values in our local troops or in the local organization.

But why should the Church keep trying to connect with anyone where you need to exercise “censor rights”?

I think anything not generated by the Archdiocese must be subject to censor if needed. Our former pastor has removed religious publications from Catholic printers, and disbanded groups he disagreed with - among them a men’s prayer group started by parishoners and a young adult group. By this I don’t see that vigilance condemns a group - it’s going to be a natural part of working with people. Even our athletic association gets out of line at times, and we’ve had to ask for a meeting with the pastor of another parish when a coach from that parish was acting inappropriately during a game.

So I don’t see the need to review publications as reason to automatically kick out the Girl Scouts. We’ll be doing the same with whatever scouting is attempted to replace our local troops.

There are other comparable alternatives for girls where the Church does not need to exercise “censor rights”, and in fact are far more supportive of Catholic values.

We’ll be reviewing the American Heritage Girls too, if they come on-parish. As a parent I’ll insist on it.

Even if you could prove that a public school were “harmless”, why not switch over to a Catholic school (or scouting entity) if that is available?

Exactly why we should keep the Scouts as part of the parish.

I know there are Catholics leading in scout troops, just as there are Catholics working in the public school. That does not mean the secular school, or scout troop, is comparable to a Christian one.

Nor does it mean the Christian-based organization is without its faults.

No comment needed. There are Christian scouting alternatives that support prolife efforts, Why doesn’t GSA do that? Which one would you want in your parish?

I like it when our Girl Scouts participate in the pro-life service projects that our parish Pro-Life Committee offers. I don’t know why yours doesn’t.

 

[Sabundus1385]

When our parish heard what the bishop had said, parishioners flocked to the Girl Scout cookie table after the 9:30 Mass and cleaned out their supply in no time!

 

[losh14]

After talking with other dads who have girl scouts on their parishes (and the parish schools):

• Most have said they expect their troops to be allowed to finish the school year, after which they may talk about bringing on a different scout troop for the next school year.
• All have said the priests are engaging the community to some extent. The one pastor who followed the Archbishop’s letter with a decision to end Girl Scouts on parish grounds immediately was an outlier, apparently.

A lay employee for the Archdiocese has been visiting the Parish councils and showing them sample pages from a book he said the Girl Scouts are using in their 2nd Grade “Journey” packet that includes a very salacious message: your body is your own, no one can tell you what to do with it, have fun with your body, there’s no repercussions, abortion is a woman’s right. I’ve only heard of it second hand from parishoners at one parish, and I have not seen the book. I’d like to get a copy of the source and run the ISBN by the library of Congress (to see who actually publishes it) and run it by the GSEM. If they’re really doing this, they should be held to account in a criminal sense - you can’t sensualize 2nd graders and think it’s somehow a women’s lib thing.

 

[WarAdmiral]

I’m a St. Louis native, and cookies were being sold after mass this past Sunday–so the troops are certainly not being ousted from parish grounds.
That being said, I don’t disagree with the Archbishop. I am in college currently but was a Girl Scout for almost ten years. I loved girls scouts. I loved my troop. But the question isn’t about individual troops.
From the GSEM response to the letter:

Girl Scouts of Eastern Missouri has no relationship with Planned Parenthood and does not plan to create one. We do not develop materials on issues involving Planned Parenthood or reproductive health. We believe these are matters best discussed within the family.

This worries me. They aren’t throwing free abortions at Brownies, but I think we need to be doing more than telling young girls that abortion should be their own decision if we want to teach them Catholic values.
The Archbishop’s letter is not out of the blue. There has been growing concern for years about the values of the Girls Scout’s parent organization from abortion to transgender issues. Eventually, the values of the people running the entire operation are going to trickle down to individual troops. I think losing the Girl Scouts in St. Louis parishes will be a great loss, but I also think it may be a necessary one.

 

[jediliz]

American Heritage girls is a good option, plus they have a National Catholic Committee. They also don’t make girls peddle junk food.

 

[commenter]

The Archbishop’s letter is not out of the blue. There has been growing concern for years about the values of the Girls Scout’s parent organization from abortion to transgender issues. Eventually, the values of the people running the entire operation are going to trickle down to individual troops. I think losing the Girl Scouts in St. Louis parishes will be a great loss, but I also think it may be a necessary one.

It likely won’t be so much a loss, as a transition. The same adult leaders, the same parents, the same girls, might be involved next year in Little Flowers, or American Heritage Girls. It won’t be Girls Scouts Inc, but it will be girl scouts. In some ways it will be kind of a restoration of what Girl Scouts Inc used to be but with a more explicit Catholic emphasis.

The official Girls Scouts organization will likely keep transitioning too; almost certainly towards more secularism.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

When our parish heard what the bishop had said, parishioners flocked to the Girl Scout cookie table after the 9:30 Mass and cleaned out their supply in no time!

It seems as if others did the same. Or inspired over the top donations. It’s being reported that at a fundraiser in Eastern Missouri, the Girl Scouts raised over $350,000, mostly in response to the Archbishop’s letter. You never really know how these things will turn out.

news.yahoo.com/catholic-churchs-disapproval-boosts-girl-scout-donations-st-215500028.html

 

[gracepoole]

I’ve never understood the view that Girl Scouts is somehow anti-Catholic. I attended Catholic schools for 12 years and was a Girl Scout during all those years. I earned multiple Catholic GSing awards and was never made to feel that I must compromise my Catholicism to be a Girl Scout. I was also never bored, unchallenged, or bogged down in “drama” that was egregious by the standards of working with a group of young girls. What Girl Scouting DID do for me, however, was give me confidence, exposure to a myriad of activities I wouldn’t have tried otherwise (like outdoor cooking, orienteering, and flag ceremonies), and friendships that continue to this day. Neither the council in which I grew up nor the one in which I currently live supports PP. My daughter is now a Girl Scout in a troop at her public elementary school and she’s already completed a religious recognition in which she learned about Mother Teresa and St. Francis of Assisi.

(BTW, I have an open box of Peanut Butter Patties/Tagalongs next to me and have eaten two while typing this )

 

[estesbob]

I’ve never understood the view that Girl Scouts is somehow anti-Catholic. I attended Catholic schools for 12 years and was a Girl Scout during all those years. I earned multiple Catholic GSing awards and was never made to feel that I must compromise my Catholicism to be a Girl Scout. I was also never bored, unchallenged, or bogged down in “drama” that was egregious by the standards of working with a group of young girls. What Girl Scouting DID do for me, however, was give me confidence, exposure to a myriad of activities I wouldn’t have tried otherwise (like outdoor cooking, orienteering, and flag ceremonies), and friendships that continue to this day. Neither the council in which I grew up nor the one in which I currently live supports PP. My daughter is now a Girl Scout in a troop at her public elementary school and she’s already completed a religious recognition in which she learned about Mother Teresa and St. Francis of Assisi.

(BTW, I have an open box of Peanut Butter Patties/Tagalongs next to me and have eaten two while typing this )

Thank you for this testimonial. It has allayed a lot of my concerns about Girl Scouts was not aware you could get Catholic awards I think I’m going to buy a box of thin mints today

 

[Joe_5859]

After talking with other dads who have girl scouts on their parishes (and the parish schools):

• Most have said they expect their troops to be allowed to finish the school year, after which they may talk about bringing on a different scout troop for the next school year.
• All have said the priests are engaging the community to some extent. The one pastor who followed the Archbishop’s letter with a decision to end Girl Scouts on parish grounds immediately was an outlier, apparently.

A lay employee for the Archdiocese has been visiting the Parish councils and showing them sample pages from a book he said the Girl Scouts are using in their 2nd Grade “Journey” packet that includes a very salacious message: your body is your own, no one can tell you what to do with it, have fun with your body, there’s no repercussions, abortion is a woman’s right. I’ve only heard of it second hand from parishoners at one parish, and I have not seen the book. I’d like to get a copy of the source and run the ISBN by the library of Congress (to see who actually publishes it) and run it by the GSEM. If they’re really doing this, they should be held to account in a criminal sense - you can’t sensualize 2nd graders and think it’s somehow a women’s lib thing.

My understanding is that GSUSA actually changed all the questionable texts once the National Catholic Committee for Girl Scouts and Camp Fire brought those issues to their attention. Of course, I suppose those old books would still be out there.

 

[Brendan]

Thank you for this testimonial. It has allayed a lot of my concerns about Girl Scouts was not aware you could get Catholic awards I think I’m going to buy a box of thin mints today

The Catholic Awards are not actually part of GSUSA, but a program run by the USSCB.

Girls in GS, American Heritage Girls, Campfire, and Little Flowers earn the same awards. The girls request books from their local diocese. When completed, awards come from the USCCB, or more specifically from the USCCB’s National Federation of Catholic Youth Ministry.

GSUSA permits the girls to wear these awards on their uniform, but does not develop nor issue the awards.

 

[Brendan]

My understanding is that GSUSA actually changed all the questionable texts once the National Catholic Committee for Girl Scouts and Camp Fire brought those issues to their attention. Of course, I suppose those old books would still be out there.

Part of the problem is that they got in their in the first place. Why can other organizations produce manuals that have no anti-Catholic trash, but somehow made it past the GSUSA editiors.

Even after they changed the books, there were still problems.

Anna Maria Chavez (CEO of GSUSA) did a magazine interview, and publicized it up on the GSUSA website, directing the girls towards the magazine.

The problem was, the magazine was ‘Marie Clare’, the young adult version of Cosmo.

The GSUSA was directing young girls towards a magazine whose feature article that month was " Anal is the new Oral"

Yes, they pulled THAT link down too when the NFCYM complained. But they question is, why do they keep doing this?. Did no one at GSUSA actually look at the cover of the magazine, or investigate what the magazine entailed when they promoted it, or even allowed their CEO in interview for it.??

 

[gracepoole]

The Catholic Awards are not actually part of GSUSA, but a program run by the USSCB.

Girls in GS, American Heritage Girls, Campfire, and Little Flowers earn the same awards. The girls request books from their local diocese. When completed, awards come from the USCCB, or more specifically from the USCCB’s National Federation of Catholic Youth Ministry.

GSUSA permits the girls to wear these awards on their uniform, but does not develop nor issue the awards.

You’re partly correct. GSUSA works in conjunction with the NCCGSCF (part of the National Federation for Catholic Youth Ministry) to create and provide Catholic Girl Scouting awards. GSUSA also provides an award at all levels called “My Promise My Faith,” in which girls investigate the intersections of their faith with the Girl Scout Law. GSUSA encourages participation in these programs by any girl or troop that’s interested.

 

[Joe_5859]

Part of the problem is that they got in their in the first place. Why can other organizations produce manuals that have no anti-Catholic trash, but somehow made it past the GSUSA editiors.

Even after they changed the books, there were still problems.

Anna Maria Chavez (CEO of GSUSA) did a magazine interview, and publicized it up on the GSUSA website, directing the girls towards the magazine.

The problem was, the magazine was ‘Marie Clare’, the young adult version of Cosmo.

The GSUSA was directing young girls towards a magazine whose feature article that month was " Anal is the new Oral"

Yes, they pulled THAT link down too when the NFCYM complained. But they question is, why do they keep doing this?. Did no one at GSUSA actually look at the cover of the magazine, or investigate what the magazine entailed when they promoted it, or even allowed their CEO in interview for it.??

I agree that it is a problem that these things keep happening at all. I find it encouraging that at least they listen to the complaints from NFCYM and make changes accordingly. But you’re right that it shouldn’t be happening in the first place.

NFCYM is not part of the USCCB. I believe they used to be years ago, but they are now their own separate entity (though they still have a USCCB episcopal liaison).

 

[commenter]

I’ve never understood the view that Girl Scouts is somehow anti-Catholic. I attended Catholic schools for 12 years and was a Girl Scout during all those years. I earned multiple Catholic GSing awards and was never made to feel that I must compromise my Catholicism to be a Girl Scout. I was also never bored, unchallenged, or bogged down in “drama” that was egregious by the standards of working with a group of young girls. What Girl Scouting DID do for me, however, was give me confidence, exposure to a myriad of activities I wouldn’t have tried otherwise (like outdoor cooking, orienteering, and flag ceremonies), and friendships that continue to this day. Neither the council in which I grew up nor the one in which I currently live supports PP. My daughter is now a Girl Scout in a troop at her public elementary school and she’s already completed a religious recognition in which she learned about Mother Teresa and St. Francis of Assisi.

At the troop level, the Girls Scouts or the parish can filter out objectionable materials that come from national or regional levels. The problem is that girls in Girl Scouts will eventually be directly linked up, via mailing lists or websites, to unfiltered material. They often participate in district activities with other troops that are not “filtered” in any way. They form an identity not just as a girl scout, but as a **GSUSA **Girl Scout, which means loyalty to a system which down the road will certainly be more secular than today.

There’s no good stuff GSUSA can do that American Heritage Girls (who have in fact girl scout leaders, just not GSUSA Girl Scouts leaders), or Little Flowers, can not do, and lots of good Christian, Catholic stuff those girl scout organizations - not just the troops - do, that the national or regional GSUSA don’t do.

It’s fair to say Girl Scouting split. The more liberal, secular leadership went one way, and they kept the title, and the copyright. The more conservative, Christian wing, more religious or traditional leaders, went another way, but still in girl scouting, still offering a life long “girl scout” identity. It is not “girl scouting” that is being rejected. Even if you argue the more liberal branch - GSUSA - is ok, clearly there are better girl scouts options available. The alternative options continue the girl scout heritage, more so than GSUSA.

You can be proud of your daughter’s religious recognitions.

 

[kwitz]

There’s no good stuff GSUSA can do that American Heritage Girls (who have in fact girl scout leaders, just not GSUSA Girl Scouts leaders), or Little Flowers, can not do, and lots of good Christian, Catholic stuff those girl scout organizations - not just the troops - do, that the national or regional GSUSA don’t do.

I’m glad my days as leader in the St. Louis area are behind me so I’m not dealing with the controversy on a personal level. Our troop (through our parish) was a good one and I loved working with the girls. I agree that there is little the GSUSA provides that any leader with good Pinterest board couldn’t figure out on her own.

The biggest loss in my mind would be the access to the Girl Scout campgrounds. We loved camping and I know most of my girls’ best memories of Girl Scouts revolve around our camping trips. The facilities are not equivalent at state parks or KOA’s etc. The unit sites at GS camps are wonderful and my troop loved them - the treehouse unit, covered wagons - the fun we had!

Kris

 

[pnewton]

.

The biggest loss in my mind would be the access to the Girl Scout campgrounds. We loved camping and I know most of my girls’ best memories of Girl Scouts revolve around our camping trips. The facilities are not equivalent at state parks or KOA’s etc. The unit sites at GS camps are wonderful and my troop loved them - the treehouse unit, covered wagons - the fun we had!

Perhaps someone then at the diocese will recognize this deficiency and see to developing a diocesan campground. Houston used to have one, but currently is in between sites.

 

[Brendan]

The biggest loss in my mind would be the access to the Girl Scout campgrounds. We loved camping and I know most of my girls’ best memories of Girl Scouts revolve around our camping trips. The facilities are not equivalent at state parks or KOA’s etc. The unit sites at GS camps are wonderful and my troop loved them - the treehouse unit, covered wagons - the fun we had!

Kris

Our Archdiocese has several camps ( CYO) that are similar to the BSA campgrounds that I have been on.

My daughter’s AHG troop will be having summer camp at a former BSA campground that is now owned by the local township. It still has all the BSA ‘stuff’ there, including a waterfront, unit campsites, etc. No covered wagon, but there is a log ‘fort’

That will be a weeklong summer camp. They also do monthly weekend camps, but those are usually at county parks.

But you are right, those are the experiences that make the best memories.

 

[kwitz]

Our Archdiocese has several camps ( CYO) that are similar to the BSA campgrounds that I have been on.

My daughter’s AHG troop will be having summer camp at a former BSA campground that is now owned by the local township. It still has all the BSA ‘stuff’ there, including a waterfront, unit campsites, etc. No covered wagon, but there is a log ‘fort’

That will be a weeklong summer camp. They also do monthly weekend camps, but those are usually at county parks.

But you are right, those are the experiences that make the best memories.

Good for your area. Does the former Boy Scout camp have permanent units? What makes the GS sites so nice is all of the permanent sites - all have (relatively) decent cots with mattresses so no sleeping on the ground. Minimally, they have plat formed tents. The covered wagon unit consists of mini wagons circled around a camp fire. Each wagon sleeps four girls. My favorite were the tree houses - A-frames that felt like your own mini cottage.

 

[Brendan]

Good for your area. Does the former Boy Scout camp have permanent units?

Yes they do.

What makes the GS sites so nice is all of the permanent sites - all have (relatively) decent cots with mattresses so no sleeping on the ground. Minimally, they have plat formed tents. The covered wagon unit consists of mini wagons circled around a camp fire. Each wagon sleeps four girls. My favorite were the tree houses - A-frames that felt like your own mini cottage.

I suppose. My girls troop is very much tent camping. The K-3 use cabins. And the older girls will use them on winter campouts, at least until they can pitch their tents.

Of my 4 girls, all but the 8 year old have gone igloo camping.

I’m sure the wagons were nice, but it’s the igloos that the girls REALLY talk about