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CindyGia
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genealogist
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My understanding is that St. Patrick’s Day is always between Ash Wednesday and Easter Sunday. Therefore, it would ALWAYS be during Lent. How then did the corned beef and cabbage custom arise if one never ate meat in the season of Lent? I have heard that the patron saint of Ireland’s feast day would trump the Lent rules. Over here the immigrants wanted to retain their customs and hence the dispensations. The Irish don’t eat corned beef today but Americans do.
How sad that one must take the time to shake a stick at those of us who wish to honor a saint who converted our ancestors centuries ago. Fasts(and abstaining from meat) were created for man not, man for the fasting. I will pray for you.
How sad that one must take the time to shake a stick at those of us who wish to honor a saint who converted our ancestors centuries ago. Fasts(and abstaining from meat) were created for man not, man for the fasting. I will pray for you.
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tee_eff_em
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Sorry, I was being facetious – I didn’t mean to imply you’d said something absurd. But by the same token, we’ve no right to expect anyone to know the history of such things from the 1800’s onward.
And I reiterate: Though you may be “sure” your older gentleman would say something, your assurance is misplaced. The gentleman may have lived in areas where the dispensation is not routinely granted, and been unaware of it, or he may have a selective memory for reasons of his own.
And sometimes more or less frequently than 7 – Don’t forget leap years.
:irish2: tee
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CindyGia
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Thank you I suppose. Although I have no idea what you are trying to convey here.
Shake a stick at people? Who me? or the old man?
One sad thing I have come to realize about this Forum is that many members always manage to make me feel bad about myself, as if I’m some sort of lunatic. Why do you people go out of your way to make others look like complete idiots? It is quite upsetting. As a new Catholic, I am finding so many people, especially on this forum rather insulting, nasty and just plain rude. It is completely uncalled for; especially coming from so called “devout” knowledgeable Catholics. I never had this problem when I was Protestant. Why is that? Why are Catholics so nasty and rude? Who are you people?
I’m becoming quite jaded with this Forum. Once again, I think I’ll delete it from my bookmarks and never return. Now, I’ll add this to my Lenten sacrifices and hopefully, never return again.
God Bless you anyway. I’ll pray for you as well!
Cindy
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BillyT92679
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David,
It’s not the same as it was forty years ago… forty years ago there was a specific rule about all the Fridays of the year being mandatory days of Abstinence, today that is not the case… generic recommendations of penance and charity are simply not the same as a specific requirement, so it is hard to measure how efficacious the change was.
And yes, as my post originally stated, as begrudging as I am, I fully submit to the authority of my Bishop, even if I wonder why Matthew Clark does what he does sometimes.
May Christ our God bless you and the Holy Theotokos keep you on your birthday.
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EtienneGilson
Guest
Dear ByzCath, happy Birthday. It is also my brother’s (they are twins) birthday today and one of their wives (um…not that they share wives or have more than one each). It seems to be a popular day to have a birthday which makes me wonder what happens nine months before today!
As to fasting and abstinence…I seem to remember that on great feast days that automatically tha dispensation is given, such as when Christmas falls on a Friday (not that I ever remember Christmas fallen on Fridays in Lent). I am wondering if anyone has any information on what specific feast days merit that canonical override of the general abstience and fasting rules, such as national feasts.
As to fasting and abstinence…I seem to remember that on great feast days that automatically tha dispensation is given, such as when Christmas falls on a Friday (not that I ever remember Christmas fallen on Fridays in Lent). I am wondering if anyone has any information on what specific feast days merit that canonical override of the general abstience and fasting rules, such as national feasts.
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Adonis33
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It’s my Birthday too. Happy Birthday!!!
I usually give up meat for lent, so it doesn’t matter to me what day of the week it is. However, since it’s my birthday, I don’t fast.
I agree with you, although it’s Friday, it is a Feast Day honoring one of the Church’s great Saints. If you to fast - do so - if you don’t want to fast - don’t.
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tee_eff_em
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Honeymoons and wedding anniversaries, perhaps?
So for instance, those that may fall during Lent: The Solemnity of Joseph, husband of Mary (always during Lent); and the Solemnity of the Annunciation. (I would give dates for these, but due to the vagaries of Lent, they are moveable Solemnities when they conflict with Sunday or certain other days of Lent/Easter Season) Local calendars may include other (local) Solemnities.
:irish2: tee
As was noted, even Bishop Bruskewitz here in Lincoln (hardly connected with the “liberal” or “progressive” view of things) granted an indult for people who wished to eat meat today in honor of the feast of St. Patrick (although he did specify that someone who chooses to eat meat today needs to pray five decades of the Rosary as an act of penance instead of abstaining from meat).
I must admit I was surprised by his action. He has not done this as far as I can remember the two previous times this feast fell on a Friday in Lent (1995 and 2000) since he arrived in Lincoln.
But, as a bishop, he and his brother bishops have the authority to grant an indult, and so I will respect that authority.
I am not Irish, and to be honest, I wouldn’t have eaten corned beef today no matter what day of the week it was, so I will observe today as a day of abstinence from meat. And I hope my Catholic brothers and sisters who observe the feast of this great saint by eating corned beef will have a joy-filled celebration.
Let us all remember the great contributions of the Irish people to our Catholic faith; let us all remember the incredible contribution Irish priests and bishops made to spreading the Catholic faith in the United States; and let us all remember on September 28 (the feast of St. Wenceslaus) that the Bohemians actually rule the world!
I must admit I was surprised by his action. He has not done this as far as I can remember the two previous times this feast fell on a Friday in Lent (1995 and 2000) since he arrived in Lincoln.
But, as a bishop, he and his brother bishops have the authority to grant an indult, and so I will respect that authority.
I am not Irish, and to be honest, I wouldn’t have eaten corned beef today no matter what day of the week it was, so I will observe today as a day of abstinence from meat. And I hope my Catholic brothers and sisters who observe the feast of this great saint by eating corned beef will have a joy-filled celebration.
Let us all remember the great contributions of the Irish people to our Catholic faith; let us all remember the incredible contribution Irish priests and bishops made to spreading the Catholic faith in the United States; and let us all remember on September 28 (the feast of St. Wenceslaus) that the Bohemians actually rule the world!
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msproule
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Excellent advice, but alas, abstention from Harp (and other such beverages) is among my personal penances for Lent 2006.
:crying:
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beckers
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AMEN!
People forget that it is a pratice not a binding church law. Some people try to be more catholic then the catholic church.
I am a little sick of people throwing it others face just how much they are doing during lent or what they have given up. And if i don’t do the same then i am some how falling at being a “good” catholic. One should not have to prove to society how much they are doing for the Lord. Our only standard is GOD’s.
I do have to remember that giving something up for lent or abstaining or fasting is voluntary. God appreciates the fact that you are trying more than the actually outcome. He loves the fact that you are trying to change and acknowledge him in all that you do. That it was Lent is about. It’s not about giving up treats or not eating meat but recongizing what the LORD has done for us through giving his son JESUS life up for us. We need to rejoice in that fact and spread that GOOD NEWS instead of arguing over petty stuff.
Many Blessings!
Beckers
P.S…My bishop has given the dispensation for people in Houston-Gavleston but i am still not going to eat meat today because I feel like it should be used for those who truely want to eat cabbage and cornbeef. Since i don’t like cornbeef there is no reason for me to want to eat meat or make it different then any other friday during lent. I’m irish so i will wear my “Kiss me I’m Irish” button and lift up a prayer for all those Irish who helped build America!
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Brendan
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John Higgins:
And as St. Patrick’s Day is a Solemnity in Ireland, the eating of meat on that day has been permitted for centuries.
Here is Detroit, Cardinal Maida also issued a dispensation, with the caveat that another day of abstience be observed on another day. Our family will fast and abstain next Wed.
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jasm
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when you fast, don’t pretend to look sad like the hypocrites. When they fast, they look dirty on purpose so they will shine before others. They’ve already received their reward! Instead, when you fast, wash your face and comb your hair. This way, you’ll shine quietly before God, not before others. Your Father who sees how quietly you fast will reward you.**
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grotto
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Fish and chips and a Harps - Yum, yum, yum!
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BillyT92679
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God bless you, your piety is earnest and commendable. I think you mean well.This I am already aware, but I don’t say this to boast, I always fast (not abstain) on Fridays during Lent. It’s just my sacrifice - as some people may claim to give up chocolate, sweets, smoking, etc for Lent. I give up food on Friday’s for Lent. I don’t think that’s being prideful. It’s only my love for God and I think I can clearly, without fear of pride, make this statement.
And yes, I have to agree with you here. Since they are our spiritual leaders they know what’s best. However, I will still give up this day as a penance and hope others do so as well. Like I said before, and others said at Mass this morning, “giving up meat today will store up treasure in Heaven” What could be more wonderful than that!
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Riley259
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You offer some good suggestions but it’s important not to be too judgemental about those who may not follow your lead.
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Dominica33
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John Higgins:
Giving just one example: each day (excluding Sunday) of Lent pre-Vatican II was a day of fast and partial abstinence. Fridays were fast and abstinence, as were Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. We are now left with just two days of fast, and a handful of Fridays with abstinence. That’s why the indult was non-issue before and so controversial now.
Moot point, John, and all who mentioned it. The discipline of the Church concerning fasting and abstinence during the entire liturgical year was significantly more strict in the 1800s and pre-Vatican II than today. In light of today’s rules, the indult is particularly laughable, considering there are virtually no days of fasting and abstinence left on the calendar!
Giving just one example: each day (excluding Sunday) of Lent pre-Vatican II was a day of fast and partial abstinence. Fridays were fast and abstinence, as were Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. We are now left with just two days of fast, and a handful of Fridays with abstinence. That’s why the indult was non-issue before and so controversial now.
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stargazer257
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Well, we had Corned Beef on Thursday, and will again at my parents’ on Sunday. So it’s fish tonight.
That’s just me (and I’m Irish too :irish2: ), but I support our Bishops’ decision to allow corned beef today, and I don’t think it is “bending” to appease the faithful. It is simple; just give up meat on Saturday instead and observe a long standing tradition (corned beef on Mar 17). If YOU feel you must abstain on Friday, so be it and good for you. But if you choose (with the Church’s blessing) to partake in corned beef, enjoy it and say an extra grace or something…and abstain Saturday.
I have faith my my Bishop to lead his flock. We are all members of the greatest Church, don’t you think?
That’s just me (and I’m Irish too :irish2: ), but I support our Bishops’ decision to allow corned beef today, and I don’t think it is “bending” to appease the faithful. It is simple; just give up meat on Saturday instead and observe a long standing tradition (corned beef on Mar 17). If YOU feel you must abstain on Friday, so be it and good for you. But if you choose (with the Church’s blessing) to partake in corned beef, enjoy it and say an extra grace or something…and abstain Saturday.
I have faith my my Bishop to lead his flock. We are all members of the greatest Church, don’t you think?
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BillyT92679
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Although I understand where you are coming from, and I sort of agree, as I said earlier… it is totally the Bishops’ decision and we really have no right to *overly *criticize.
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m134e5
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St. Patrick’s Day and the customs associated with it are very important to many people with Irish heritage. The Irish people in this country had a very difficult time keeping their faith, and those who have managed to do so would like to be able to keep their tradition on the feast day of the Saint who brought the Faith to their country. Now that most Americans don’t value their European heritage as much (our country is older now), these customs mean less and less to more and more people. My bishop (who is definitely orthodox) said it was ok to have corned beef and cabbage if you were doing it to celebrate this day- it was not a general lifting of the abstinence law for everybody, to be taken advantage of in any way they choose. Waiting a day or doing it a day early may be no big deal for those whose Irish heritage is not prominent or very meaningful to them, but it means a great deal to many people.
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