R
reen12
Guest
Thanks, padraig. I’m most grateful.
reen12
reen12
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F
Fr_Ambrose
Guest
I’m adding my prayers to Padraig’s. God bless her and Mary protect her.
R
reen12
Guest
Dear Fr. Ambrose,
Thanks, Father. I’ll get back to you soon.
reen12
PS In 2006 I’ll be 60 years old. I just wish
that I had the energy now that I had 10 years
ago, in terms of visiting and caring for Mom.
Thanks, Father. I’ll get back to you soon.
reen12
PS In 2006 I’ll be 60 years old. I just wish
that I had the energy now that I had 10 years
ago, in terms of visiting and caring for Mom.
P
padraig
Guest
Maureen,
My own mother died a very holy death, after a very long illness, about six months ago.
At times it seems as if the sky has turned to brass and God has disappeared. But St Paul says the all things work to-gether unto good for those who love God! The only problem is there are times when it certainly doesn’t seemthat way! But my own belief is that God is never closer than when He seems furthest away.
We are none of us angels we all struugle and get our poor faces covered in dust and blood and sweat in this poor life, often glory seems far away. But glory is always there, Maureen . Always there. And if we can’t see it, well never mind for God can. And you know sometimes that seems to be all we have to pull us through.
Praying away for you both at the feet of the Crucified Lord. Pulling Marys robe like a little child and with tears in my eyes asking her to turn her motherly eyes in your direction.
My own mother died a very holy death, after a very long illness, about six months ago.
At times it seems as if the sky has turned to brass and God has disappeared. But St Paul says the all things work to-gether unto good for those who love God! The only problem is there are times when it certainly doesn’t seemthat way! But my own belief is that God is never closer than when He seems furthest away.
We are none of us angels we all struugle and get our poor faces covered in dust and blood and sweat in this poor life, often glory seems far away. But glory is always there, Maureen . Always there. And if we can’t see it, well never mind for God can. And you know sometimes that seems to be all we have to pull us through.
Praying away for you both at the feet of the Crucified Lord. Pulling Marys robe like a little child and with tears in my eyes asking her to turn her motherly eyes in your direction.
R
reen12
Guest
Dear padraig,
Thank you for your kind words. I’m sorry that you
lost your mother. I’m sorry that you know through
hard experience what I’m going through.
I try to look at Mom, her life and mind burning
out right before my eyes, and think of how
Mary must have felt watching her Son crucified and not
being able to undo what was happening.
It’s part of the “vale of tears”, isn’t it?
Blessed Mother, lead padraig’s mother to
your Son and to a place of light, happiness
and peace. Comfort her son’s heart.
reen12
The thing that wrenches my heart is that
my father had schizophrenia, and I oversaw
his care from age 19 to 44 and then this
happens to Mom.
Thank you for your kind words. I’m sorry that you
lost your mother. I’m sorry that you know through
hard experience what I’m going through.
I try to look at Mom, her life and mind burning
out right before my eyes, and think of how
Mary must have felt watching her Son crucified and not
being able to undo what was happening.
It’s part of the “vale of tears”, isn’t it?
Blessed Mother, lead padraig’s mother to
your Son and to a place of light, happiness
and peace. Comfort her son’s heart.
reen12
The thing that wrenches my heart is that
my father had schizophrenia, and I oversaw
his care from age 19 to 44 and then this
happens to Mom.
P
padraig
Guest
Maureen,
I read something very strange, written by a French spiritual writer many, many years ago that has really stuck in my mind.
He said that Christ sends us the Cross we can each of us least bear.
It sounds mad but in my own life I have found it, on reflection to be very true. For the hand that hurts is the hand that heals.
The Little Flower and her sisters had the same cross, you bear with their own father and I recall St Therese saying that of all the Crosses the Lord might have sent her this was the most painful she could imagine.
Why God sends these things, who really knows? Sometimes we could feel like rising up and choking the poor Lord. But He has His reasons and often keeps them hidden from us for His own good reasons.
We can only hope and trust and keep the little candle of love burning in the holy grotto’s of our hearts.
But one day we will know. And one day we will understand. And praise and thank Him for it!
I read something very strange, written by a French spiritual writer many, many years ago that has really stuck in my mind.
He said that Christ sends us the Cross we can each of us least bear.
It sounds mad but in my own life I have found it, on reflection to be very true. For the hand that hurts is the hand that heals.
The Little Flower and her sisters had the same cross, you bear with their own father and I recall St Therese saying that of all the Crosses the Lord might have sent her this was the most painful she could imagine.
Why God sends these things, who really knows? Sometimes we could feel like rising up and choking the poor Lord. But He has His reasons and often keeps them hidden from us for His own good reasons.
We can only hope and trust and keep the little candle of love burning in the holy grotto’s of our hearts.
But one day we will know. And one day we will understand. And praise and thank Him for it!
R
reen12
Guest
Dear padraig,
Has that been your experience? That God sends
you crosses that you would least want to bear?
Thank you for telling me that St. Therese and her
sisters had a similar cross in their father’s condition.
I didn’t know that.
And most of all, thank you for the beautiful
phrasing of: “keep the little candle of love burning in the holy grotto’s of our hearts.” I didn’t think of the heart as a grotto,
but it is, isn’t it?
Tonight I’m going to read Fr. Ambrose’s posts from
this thread that he posted two days ago.
God bless, padraig,
Maureen [reen12]
Has that been your experience? That God sends
you crosses that you would least want to bear?
Thank you for telling me that St. Therese and her
sisters had a similar cross in their father’s condition.
I didn’t know that.
And most of all, thank you for the beautiful
phrasing of: “keep the little candle of love burning in the holy grotto’s of our hearts.” I didn’t think of the heart as a grotto,
but it is, isn’t it?
Tonight I’m going to read Fr. Ambrose’s posts from
this thread that he posted two days ago.
God bless, padraig,
Maureen [reen12]
R
reen12
Guest
Hi, Fr. Ambrose,
Finally found a little island of quiet this evening
and read your posts above re: My God, My God,
why have You abandoned Me?"
Help me here, will you please?
Am I undertanding what these theologians said
correctlly: that His words were meant to
release us from abandoment? foresakenness?
Here’s my point, if you’ll bear with me:
Christ’s divine nature did not shield Him from
the terrible physical pain of the Passion in
His human nature.
Since each human being has a psychological
element placed there by God, why is it not
logical to conclude that His divine nature did
not shield Him from the human cry: My God,
why hast Thou abandoned Me?
The Arians tried to deny the 2 natures of Christ,
have I got that right? [it’s been so many years
since I studied formally].
In an effort to combat that heresy, don’t we and
the Church Fathers run the risk of bending over
the other way? In calling to mind the Divine nature,
don’t we [they] run the risk of concluding that
that Divine nature somehow shielded Him from
what human nature brings to many in great agony
of mind? Not the actuality of abandonment by
God, but the human psychological* experience*
of abandonment?
I posted in another thread:
“Jesus was dying in agony,
and to taste the cup of bitterness to the full,
did He not experience the worst a human can
endure…the human emotion of feeling abandoned
by God? [No, God does not abandon us in
fact, but a human being sometimes experiences
the emotion of abandonment…a truly dreadful
thing.] I’m speaking of Christ’s human nature.”
“I guess my point is, if I understand St.Paul’s
referring to “making up the suffering lacking”
then I can rejoice that those who experience
mental illness can identify with Jesus’
cry of abandonment, realizing that their
suffering can be enjoined with Christ’s in
a unique way. [The opportunity of a lifetime,
in some sense…to make golden so much
psychological pain, in union with Christ’s
own.]”
I realize that this belief is Roman, not
Orthodox, i.e., the concept of redemptive suffering.
My overriding interest, spiritually, is to reach
out to those suffering from mental illness,
and those who care for them [hence my interest
in St. Benedict Joseph Labre.] This is why the
human, psychological experience of the God-Man
on the cross is of such import to me.
I like the term “shielded”, because I do not
believe that Jesus was shielded by His divine
nature from all of the starkness of a conscious
death in great pain, any more than His divine
nature shielded Him from physical pain.
Perhaps only the mentally ill will understand what
I am saying, but they will understand…unfortunately,
they will understand.
Kind regards,
Maureen [reen12]
Finally found a little island of quiet this evening
and read your posts above re: My God, My God,
why have You abandoned Me?"
Help me here, will you please?
Am I undertanding what these theologians said
correctlly: that His words were meant to
release us from abandoment? foresakenness?
Here’s my point, if you’ll bear with me:
Christ’s divine nature did not shield Him from
the terrible physical pain of the Passion in
His human nature.
Since each human being has a psychological
element placed there by God, why is it not
logical to conclude that His divine nature did
not shield Him from the human cry: My God,
why hast Thou abandoned Me?
The Arians tried to deny the 2 natures of Christ,
have I got that right? [it’s been so many years
since I studied formally].
In an effort to combat that heresy, don’t we and
the Church Fathers run the risk of bending over
the other way? In calling to mind the Divine nature,
don’t we [they] run the risk of concluding that
that Divine nature somehow shielded Him from
what human nature brings to many in great agony
of mind? Not the actuality of abandonment by
God, but the human psychological* experience*
of abandonment?
I posted in another thread:
“Jesus was dying in agony,
and to taste the cup of bitterness to the full,
did He not experience the worst a human can
endure…the human emotion of feeling abandoned
by God? [No, God does not abandon us in
fact, but a human being sometimes experiences
the emotion of abandonment…a truly dreadful
thing.] I’m speaking of Christ’s human nature.”
“I guess my point is, if I understand St.Paul’s
referring to “making up the suffering lacking”
then I can rejoice that those who experience
mental illness can identify with Jesus’
cry of abandonment, realizing that their
suffering can be enjoined with Christ’s in
a unique way. [The opportunity of a lifetime,
in some sense…to make golden so much
psychological pain, in union with Christ’s
own.]”
I realize that this belief is Roman, not
Orthodox, i.e., the concept of redemptive suffering.
My overriding interest, spiritually, is to reach
out to those suffering from mental illness,
and those who care for them [hence my interest
in St. Benedict Joseph Labre.] This is why the
human, psychological experience of the God-Man
on the cross is of such import to me.
I like the term “shielded”, because I do not
believe that Jesus was shielded by His divine
nature from all of the starkness of a conscious
death in great pain, any more than His divine
nature shielded Him from physical pain.
Perhaps only the mentally ill will understand what
I am saying, but they will understand…unfortunately,
they will understand.
Kind regards,
Maureen [reen12]
R
reen12
Guest
Dear Fr. Ambrose,
Your post regarding:
Saint John Chrysostom in his Commentary on Colossians
will require a separate response on my part.
I did easily accept:
“…it is better to say, as did St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco, that, “so as to feel the full weight of the consequences of sin, the Son of God would voluntarily allow His human nature to feel even the horror of separation from God” (“What Did Christ Pray About in the Garden of Gethsemane?” Living Orthodoxy, Vol. XV, No. 3 [May-June 1993], p. 6”
That*,* I believe, is* identical* to what I posted earlier this
evening. St. John of Shanghai and San
Francisco is, apparently, of one mind with an
Irish Catholic of the early 21st century.
Upon further consideration:
No, his point is more theologically sound than
mine. He stresses that the Son of God “would
voluntarily allow His human nature to feel…”
That would satisfy both divine and human natures,
wouldn’t it? Thanks a lot, Fr. Ambrose. I knew
there was a hole in my argument, and that was it.
I should have known that a solution would be
provided by a resident of the Isle of Saints and
Scholars!
reen12
Your post regarding:
Saint John Chrysostom in his Commentary on Colossians
will require a separate response on my part.
I did easily accept:
“…it is better to say, as did St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco, that, “so as to feel the full weight of the consequences of sin, the Son of God would voluntarily allow His human nature to feel even the horror of separation from God” (“What Did Christ Pray About in the Garden of Gethsemane?” Living Orthodoxy, Vol. XV, No. 3 [May-June 1993], p. 6”
That*,* I believe, is* identical* to what I posted earlier this
evening. St. John of Shanghai and San
Francisco is, apparently, of one mind with an
Irish Catholic of the early 21st century.
Upon further consideration:
No, his point is more theologically sound than
mine. He stresses that the Son of God “would
voluntarily allow His human nature to feel…”
That would satisfy both divine and human natures,
wouldn’t it? Thanks a lot, Fr. Ambrose. I knew
there was a hole in my argument, and that was it.
I should have known that a solution would be
provided by a resident of the Isle of Saints and
Scholars!
reen12
P
padraig
Guest
Father Ambrose, you should talk a little of the Orthodox tradition of being A ‘Fool for Christ’, it seems to me that Maureen would be very interested in the ‘Holy madness’. I know I am myself!
R
reen12
Guest
Dear padraig,
I can’t believe it! Guess what words I copied down
yesterday in some search I was doing on the
web?
saloi [Greek] and yurodivy [Russian] which is
evidently terms used for Holy Fools.
Yes, I wish Fr. Ambrose would post some
material on the subject.
Is this an example of “great minds think
alike?”
Best regards,
reen12
I can’t believe it! Guess what words I copied down
yesterday in some search I was doing on the
web?
saloi [Greek] and yurodivy [Russian] which is
evidently terms used for Holy Fools.
Yes, I wish Fr. Ambrose would post some
material on the subject.
Is this an example of “great minds think
alike?”
Best regards,
reen12
F
Fr_Ambrose
Guest
Padraig, now I am worried about you because you are are inclined to think that stylites are irrelevant to the 21st century but now you are very keen on fools for Christ!Father Ambrose, you should talk a little of the Orthodox tradition of being A ‘Fool for Christ’, it seems to me that Maureen would be very interested in the ‘Holy madness’. I know I am myself!
Hmmm…I am too lazy to pen a monograph so take a walk through some of their lives, for a quick perspective on their way of life. One of the fools whom I love is Saint Theophile of Kiev, a monk who did such (hilarious) things as putting blades on the wheel of a cart and scything his way through all the bishop’s new vineyard. Theophile was well aware that the bishop was overly attached to his vines!
Here are three Lives of Fools for Christ…
Andrew, Fool-for-Christ-sake
fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/saints/andrew_foolish.htm
http://www.standrewfoolforchrist.org/images/Saint Andrew fool for Christ.jpg
Blessed Xenia – Fool-for-Christ of St. Petersburg
roca.org/OA/43/43m.htm
SaintXenia.com is available at DomainMarket.com. Call 888-694-6735
Saint Basil,
the fool-for-Christ-sake of Moscow
fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/saints/basil_moscow.htm
F
Fr_Ambrose
Guest
Dear Maureen,
How is your Mum?
I am keeping a candle burning for her in front of the icons here in my ‘cell.’.
Much love and prayers…
How is your Mum?
I am keeping a candle burning for her in front of the icons here in my ‘cell.’.
Much love and prayers…
F
Fr_Ambrose
Guest
Dear Maureen,
How is your Mum?
I am keeping a candle burning for her in front of the icons here in my ‘cell’.
Much love and prayers…
How is your Mum?
I am keeping a candle burning for her in front of the icons here in my ‘cell’.
Much love and prayers…
R
reen12
Guest
Dear Father Ambrose,
Thank you for your great kindness in keeping a
candle burning for my mother. She is much
improved, and seems to be making a grand
comeback. She is able to feed herself now,
which, to me, is a miracle of sorts.
What is so incredible is that, even when
Mom is delusional, her personality is intact.
She is able to make a joke based on what she
thinks she is seeing. God bless her !
And God bless you as well, Father.
With gratitude,
Maureen [reen12]
Thank you for your great kindness in keeping a
candle burning for my mother. She is much
improved, and seems to be making a grand
comeback. She is able to feed herself now,
which, to me, is a miracle of sorts.
What is so incredible is that, even when
Mom is delusional, her personality is intact.
She is able to make a joke based on what she
thinks she is seeing. God bless her !
And God bless you as well, Father.
With gratitude,
Maureen [reen12]
P
padraig
Guest
Thesewonderful saintly mad folks remind me of something I saw years ago in St Geogre’s Church in east London. There used to be an old black man who went up to communion every morning. Anyway I noticed when I noticed shortly after recieving the host he always froze. I used to watch him from then on in and it happened every time. I became convinced that the old guy was going into ecsasy like a regular old saint. I was dying to talk to him, but was too shy! This reminds me of the story of Pope Pius x11 who was asked by one of his priests if he thought there might be a saint living in Rome at that very minute.
‘In every street’, the Pontiff wonderfully replied!
I love madness, it seems to me following Christ is a kind of magical madness, little wonder then that so many fled from him in terror!
I’ll tell you a kind of zany mad story about the monastery. One day in Chapter the Abbot announced that he had bought a fairly expensive new estate wagon for the community.
'Ah’’ muttered a holy old lay brother, ‘the Holy Family managed with a donkey!’
'Well’, said the Abbot, quick as a flask,‘We’d all look funny heading down the motorway on the back of a donkey!’
‘In every street’, the Pontiff wonderfully replied!
I love madness, it seems to me following Christ is a kind of magical madness, little wonder then that so many fled from him in terror!
I’ll tell you a kind of zany mad story about the monastery. One day in Chapter the Abbot announced that he had bought a fairly expensive new estate wagon for the community.
'Ah’’ muttered a holy old lay brother, ‘the Holy Family managed with a donkey!’
'Well’, said the Abbot, quick as a flask,‘We’d all look funny heading down the motorway on the back of a donkey!’
F
Fr_Ambrose
Guest
padraig said:'Well’, said the Abbot, quick as a flask,‘We’d all look funny heading down the motorway on the back of a donkey!’
Flask??!
Was your Abbot given to strong drink?
P
padraig
Guest
Flash, Father, flash! Not flask…he wasn’t typically Irish in that respect!
R
reen12
Guest
Dear Father Ambrose,
I hope you won’t mind, but I quoted you over on the
Apologetics forum under the topic Atonement.
I referrenced your quote of St. John of Shanghai
and San Fransisco.
Hope that was O.K.?
reen12
PS: I’m having a field day reading the lives of
Orthodox saints [after I read the three you
mentioned above.] I went to the site itself,
and am glorying in the lives presented there.
Though, as a happily married woman of
30 years, I’m not too taken with St. Alexis !
I hope you won’t mind, but I quoted you over on the
Apologetics forum under the topic Atonement.
I referrenced your quote of St. John of Shanghai
and San Fransisco.
Hope that was O.K.?
reen12
PS: I’m having a field day reading the lives of
Orthodox saints [after I read the three you
mentioned above.] I went to the site itself,
and am glorying in the lives presented there.
Though, as a happily married woman of
30 years, I’m not too taken with St. Alexis !
F
Fr_Ambrose
Guest
Alexis, the Man of God? His day falls on Saint Patrick’s. I thought that you would like him? I’ve always thought there were strong similarities between his life and Benedict Joseph Labre (I discovered him as a teenager when I found his biography by Elizabeth Goudge (I think).
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