Standing for the National Anthem

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It’s still your country’s anthem and doesn’t seem to have any intentional fatal flaws, not even by clumsiness, just some sort of linguistic nuance from the perspective of language used one or two centuries later than the anthem was written. IMHO, not a reason to refuse to stand up if that’s the universal way of showing respect (and only respect, not worship, no semi-religious adoration of a flag or some other object etc.).

I disagree with some stuff that’s in my own national anthem, but that doesn’t mean I won’t stand up for the whole thing.
 
Of course, in the U.S., if one is born in, say, Massachusetts, you are a native of America - but you are most certainly NOT a “native American.” The PC gods must be served.
My family is American Indian. We don’t like the term Native American because we are all native Americans. Unless, like my husband, you have moved here from another country personally. Truthfully most of us, including the activists, would prefer to be known by our tribal affiliation or at least which nation we belong to. Most people don’t know and couldn’t tell by looking at us even if they did know the various tribes. And so many like my family are mixed anyway.

To be honest, I personally prefer to just be known by my name and not my race or nationality or color or anything of the like. I especially don’t like being called Native American though because it tends to pit us against them. It’s time to move on in life. As a people, my ancestors weren’t angels that did no wrong. We had our faults as well.
 
From what I’ve heard, the line “In all thy sons command” is honouring the Canadian soldiers (virtually all male) who died serving in World War I. If you can’t stand for any other part, at least stand up for this line. Please salute those men who died brutal deaths in cold, muddy wastelands of death so that we could be free.

Do not stand for the evil, stand for the good. Stand for those Canadians who have been good to the aboriginals. Stand for those Canadians who oppose abortion.

I myself am disappointed in our nation. Abortion, euthanasia, constant LGBT agendas, a government that wants to control so much. All of these keep me from being patriotic of our government.

But I can still be patriotic about our country.

A country is not only made up of its government, but also its people.

God bless.
I agree about standing for our vets.

However all the disappointments you mention, which I also agree with, are not the fault of the government. They are the fault of the people. It is the people that tossed out Judeo-Christian values and adopted secularism and it’s mentality of instant gratification. The government, elected by the people, are merely reflecting those values. Canada is not alone, it is a Western phenomenon.

If we want governments to reflect Christian values, then the people must themselves hold those values. Only then will governments reflect them. Which means we must evangelize.

Canada is mission territory. As are most Western nations.
 
My family is American Indian. We don’t like the term Native American because we are all native Americans. Unless, like my husband, you have moved here from another country personally. Truthfully most of us, including the activists, would prefer to be known by our tribal affiliation or at least which nation we belong to. Most people don’t know and couldn’t tell by looking at us even if they did know the various tribes. And so many like my family are mixed anyway.

To be honest, I personally prefer to just be known by my name and not my race or nationality or color or anything of the like. I especially don’t like being called Native American though because it tends to pit us against them. It’s time to move on in life. As a people, my ancestors weren’t angels that did no wrong. We had our faults as well.
I don’t know any American Indians anywhere who use “Native American” anymore.
 
Great insight by other posters.

You are 15. You not standing for the National Athem does nothing that will do or change anything about the things that you say you are concerned about. It is futile and just looks like posturing. If you really care about the things you care about, do something positive to help them, not just sit in your chair.
 
Thought I read something recently that they were going to modify the “sons” line to something more gender neutral?
 
Thought I read something recently that they were going to modify the “sons” line to something more gender neutral?
Yes, there is a bill pending in their legislature and it’s my understanding that so far it is passing. One ground for changing it is that the original song was written with gender-neutral language and changed around the time of WWI to “sons”.

So since they are addressing it for the benefit of those who are concerned about it (even though I think it’s not that important myself), that’s even less reason to make a big point of protesting it.
 
Yes, there is a bill pending in their legislature and it’s my understanding that so far it is passing. One ground for changing it is that the original song was written with gender-neutral language and changed around the time of WWI to “sons”.

So since they are addressing it for the benefit of those who are concerned about it (even though I think it’s not that important myself), that’s even less reason to make a big point of protesting it.
At this point it’s stalled in the Senate. Conservative senators don’t want the lyrics changed. They’ve proposed some amendments to the bill which would effectively kill it because a new MP would have to be found to introduce it again.

It should be said that this was a private member’s bill that was introduced by an MP suffering from ALS and it passed in great part because of sympathy for him and done quickly so that he would be alive to see it passed. This was his second attempt at having the lyrics changed but it was defeated when he introduced it before.

Apparently this is the 10th time that there has been an attempt to make the lyrics gender neutral.

If this bill passes we should brace ourselves because the next bill introduced will be to remove any mention of God from this anthem.

Of course changing the English lyrics does nothing to change the French original lyrics which, while God is never mentioned, are steeped in Catholicism, Faith, and the Church.
 
I don’t agree with your reasons for not standing but I sympathize with your desire not to stand. I’m American and have no warm feelings myself for my government. I don’t celebrate it or honor it. It is just a criminal gang that demands tribute, including possibly my life. The whole saluting flags stuff is about making us subjects compliant and afraid to act independently.
 
The OP hardly seems to be a 15 year old. That post is too complex for a young person to write. Perhaps I’m wrong. But, if that is the case, I would suggest taking a broader view, from all points of view on the question. Many of our man-made problems are not SO black-and-white as anyone but an unthinking extremist would prefer.

As stated earlier, biologically, we all seem to be derived from Africans. Your whole point seems to be based on the idea of squatter’s rights. So, let’s see. If I were the first person to step on the Western Hemisphere, then it ALL belongs to me? (I’d like it all back, by the way. The rest of you can just go home, wherever that is.) Oh, by the way, the Bible, in the Psalms, states that the earth and everything in it belongs to God. Please make a note of that.

What’s lacking in all of your post is an eternal perspective. Personally (and I mean that) I try to look at things from the perspective of whether “it” (whatever) is going to be important one hundred years from now. What do you think?
 
p.s. Whenever I happen to watch a Canadian-US game, the US crowd will generally stand respectfully for the Canadian anthem.
 
I think we have pretty well cover the many misconceptions you have about the text of the Canadian anthem.

Flowery language is common in poetry (and no, there are no rules of poetry, only for different styles of poetry which is a different topic altogether.)

For example, we often hear Our Lady referred to as Star of the Sea. She is not literally a STAR and everyone realizes it.

So no, the piece is not sexist.

Your assertion that everyone should “be nice” can be loosely translated to “please don’t tell me I am wrong”.

Very few educated people blame current citizenry for what their forebears may or may not have done in the name of country or faith. My ancestor was the first acting Governor of New Mexico when it was a territory. When it became a State, the new Governor beat the **** out of my forefather on the streets of Taos. It’s regrettable event, but I don’t think about it or hate anyone because of it. In short, we move forward acknowledging historical mistakes.
Sit if you want to, but I can tell you that you will likely be met with angry stares, snide comments during the rest of your time and if you try to explain your reasoning as you did here, you will be VERY disappointed.
 
I’m not trying to make a change.
All I’m planning on doing is refusing to stand for the anthem, which I hope is my Constitutional right.

The definitions of words isn’t really opinion based? I’ll respect you, but I respectfully disagree.

About the “native land”, the point is when you compare us to Aboriginal people, they’ve been here thousands of years. We’ve been here less then 400. We aren’t natives even if we are born here.
Couple of points off the OP, but I will quote this response and state that I think you are taking this too literally:
  1. “Native Land” does not literally mean the land of the natives, aka Indians, aka Native Americans. Native Land simply means the land that you were born unto, if that is what you are hung up on.
  2. What does it matter who was on the continent first in regards to nativity? What time limit do you set before someone gets to call themselves a native of a place? Are the Angles and the Saxons foreigners in Britain today? Do we kick the Turks out of Turkey?
The fact is, Canada exists as a country because European immigrants, specifically the British and French, created it. There would never be a Canada if this did not happen. Before the arrival of Europeans Canada and most of North America was simply wilderness with sparse tribes of hunter-gatherer peoples roaming across it. And as these Europeans and their descendants created the nation, they have every right to call it their native land.
  1. “Sons” in the context of your anthem is not sexist as it does not actually refer to one sex. This is because “man” is a root word stemming from German that basically means person, and as such, so can its derivatives. And, besides being linguistically unnecessary, “sons and daughters” is bulky and doesn’t flow well, and “people” is bland and un-poetic.
When the Canadian anthem was written everyone understood that in English “son” could both mean the male offspring of his parents, or alternatively mean the collective descendants of a group of people. You would not say “daughter”, because that very specifically refers to a female. Again, this is not sexist because to be able to communicate with each other with any real meaning we must have some differentiation in descriptive language. We as a culture used to (and still do, apparently begrudgingly) grant a special status to women in language indicated by separating their pronoun from the generic “man”. Similarly, the reason that, say, in our caveman days the men went out and felled trees or hunted mammoths was not because they looked at women as beneath them. It was because women were valued and so the men were sent out to do the dangerous, deadly work because they were expendable. Is that sexist? I think it is only if you think that women must be EXACTLY like men to be equal.

Think about it for a moment. If we continue down this road and eliminate all “sexist” language from English, we will soon have no idea what the other is talking about. Say we decide that there will no longer be the words “man” and “woman” because it is sexist to denote differences and replace them both with the generic word “zan”. A conversation could go like this: "A zan and a zan went to the store where they spoke to a saleszan but decided not to buy anything because ze was too pushy. Plus they couldn’t understand ze well because ze spoke with a Gerzan accent. Then they went to a restaurant where the waitz spilled wine on the ze’s shirt and the other ze who was the romantic partner of the first ze called for the head waitz and complained that their waitz had ruined ziser zefriend’s shirt.

That is a bunch of needless nonsense and pretty soon we would have to make up new words or revert back to “man” and “woman” to understand each other again.

Another example. When Neil Armstrong stepped in the moon his words were “A small step for [a] man, a giant leap for mankind”. Was he only referring to males with this line?

Unfortunately today we are quickly trying to destroy the English language in some misguided quest to eliminate “sexism” and “male privilege” because we as a society don’t seem to understand where words come from anymore.

Regardless, the point is, “sons” isn’t sexist. In this context it means roughly “people of this land”. And even if it did refer literally to male sons, the context probably referred to a specific point in time (WWI) when the actual sons of the country fought for Canada, Britain, and France.
  1. Lastly, we all know that mankind is flawed and that we are all sinners. And as such our institutions are not perfect. That said, a nation’s flag is a physical representation of the ideals of that nation, and the national anthem is the vocal celebration of those ideals. Saluting the flag or singing the anthem does not mean you approve those failings, but that you would like to see your country meet those ideals.
To sit during an anthem does not tell people “I disagree with the wrongs this nation has committed”, even if you say so. What your actions are telling people is “I despise what you stand for and I am not a part of this country or culture, whatever my citizenship. I renounce it.”.

As an American, there are many things both my state and federal government do that I disagree with or see as immoral. Singing the anthem does not mean I support those things, only that I believe in striving towards “freedom and justice for all” and respect those who have given their lives for it.

Sorry for the long reply. 🙂
 
]
  1. If you were born there, it’s your native land.
ebeano;14751632:
Along the same lines as Columbus discovered America.
Not at all. If you were born in England, your native land is England. If you were born in the US, your native land is the US. It has nothing to do with your citizenship or who was there first. Just like in Canada, people who were born in Newfoundland before it joined confederation in 1949 are natives of Newfoundland, not natives of Canada because Newfoundland at that time was a country.

We know Columbus wasn’t even the first European/white person to “discover” America. The Vikings were here at least 400 years before Columbus showed up and we know that the indigenous population had been here long before that.
 
I don’t agree with your reasons for not standing but I sympathize with your desire not to stand. I’m American and have no warm feelings myself for my government. I don’t celebrate it or honor it. It is just a criminal gang that demands tribute, including possibly my life. The whole saluting flags stuff is about making us subjects compliant and afraid to act independently.
I won’t respond to every poster separately, as that would take a while.

What I will do is make a broad response to the majority of posters.

I’m sure we could argue all day about whether my reasons for not wanting to stand are valid, but wasnt my main intention. My main was more the legality, which is why I mainly quoted Canadian Law.

The poster I quoted above makes a few good points, most id have to agree with. Governments exist to help themselves right now and it is shameful.

I’ve been getting this a lot, but I’ll say it again. I was born in June, 2002.
 
Canada’s anthem is pretty calm and peaceful compared to most countries’ anthems, I would say. Our own is about a battle, and the Marseillaise is downright sanguinary:

rise children of the fatherland
The day of glory has arrived
Against us tyranny’s
Bloody standard is raised
Listen to the sound in the fields
The howling of these fearsome soldiers
They are coming into our midst
To cut the throats of your sons and consorts

To arms citizens Form your battalions
March, march
Let impure blood
Water our furrows

What do they want this horde of slaves
Of traitors and conspiratorial kings?
For whom these vile chains
These long-prepared irons?
Frenchmen, for us, ah! What outrage
What methods must be taken?
It is us they dare plan
To return to the old slavery!

What! These foreign cohorts!
They would make laws in our courts!
What! These mercenary phalanxes
Would cut down our warrior sons
Good Lord! By chained hands
Our brow would yield under the yoke
The vile despots would have themselves be
The masters of destiny

Tremble, tyrants and traitors
The shame of all good men
Tremble! Your parricidal schemes
Will receive their just reward
Against you we are all soldiers
If they fall, our young heros
France will bear new ones
Ready to join the fight against you

Frenchmen, as magnanimous warriors
Bear or hold back your blows
Spare these sad victims
That they regret taking up arms against us
But not these bloody despots
These accomplices of Bouillé
All these tigers who pitilessly
Ripped out their mothers’ wombs

We too shall enlist
When our elders’ time has come
To add to the list of deeds
Inscribed upon their tombs
We are much less jealous of surviving them
Than of sharing their coffins
We shall have the sublime pride
Of avenging or joining them

Drive on sacred patriotism
Support our avenging arms
Liberty, cherished liberty
Join the struggle with your defenders
Under our flags, let victory
Hurry to your manly tone
So that in death your enemies
See your triumph and our glory!

Nice tune, though. Personally, I like “America the Beautiful” better than “The Star-Spangled Banner,” but I know that people object to it because of the implicit Manifest Destiny sentiments and the mention of God.
 
I think we have pretty well cover the many misconceptions you have about the text of the Canadian anthem.

Flowery language is common in poetry (and no, there are no rules of poetry, only for different styles of poetry which is a different topic altogether.)

For example, we often hear Our Lady referred to as Star of the Sea. She is not literally a STAR and everyone realizes it.

So no, the piece is not sexist.

Your assertion that everyone should “be nice” can be loosely translated to “please don’t tell me I am wrong”.

Very few educated people blame call the comments and frustrations felt by the african-american community in the statesurrent citizenry for what their forebears may or may not have done in the name of country or faith. My ancestor was the first acting Governor of New Mexico when it was a territory. When it became a State, the new Governor beat the **** out of my forefather on the streets of Taos. It’s regrettable event, but I don’t think about it or hate anyone because of it. In short, we move forward acknowledging historical mistakes.
Sit if you want to, but I can tell you that you will likely be met with angry stares, snide comments during the rest of your time and if you try to explain your reasoning as you did here, you will be VERY disappointed.
you’d be surprised clare.

the whole aboriginal ting is actually quite a huge issue here

comparable to the feelings of African-americans in the states.

I’m not saying they are all like this but there is a lot of blaming and finger-pointing going around.

of course, there are some atrocious things in the past that shold be known and never repeated but I agree with you, that guilt-tripping and staying stuck in the past doen’st get us anywhere
 
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