Star Trek Beyond - Farewell to a Franchise

  • Thread starter Thread starter pnewton
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Padres1969 said:
Partly, since starting off with the doctor being the center of a show that primarily featured Kirk and Spock was just odd. But mainly because it’s a monster of the week episode featuring one of their less than stellar rubber monsters (w/suction cups!) whose big evil was that it was a junkie for salt. Why it didn’t just go to the mess hall and steal the salt shakers… 🤷

The actual pilot (at least the one featuring Kirk and Spock), ‘Where No Man Has Gone Before’, was a much better episode. Essentially Trek got the Firefly treatment (where the early episodes are aired way out of order) 35 years before that show, but since it wasn’t airing on 1990’s or later FOX it lived to tell the tale for a couple of full seasons at least.
Click to expand...
I still find that salt vampire scary.
 
didymus said:
Lyrics to the TOS theme song, or how Roddenberry made $$$ off a song nobody has ever sung:
snopes.com/radiotv/tv/trek.asp?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social
Click to expand...
I learned recently - I think it was from the Metv website - that the theme to ‘Hogan’s Heroes’ also had lyrics, also never sung. Apparently Roddenberry wasn’t the first person to invent this game.

And they’re actually pretty good - here’s the first verse:

Heroes, heroes, husky men of war,

Sons of all the heroes, of the war before. 

We’re all heroes up to our ear-o’s 

You ask questions,

We make suggestions, 

That’s what we’re heroes for.
 
porthos11 said:
One reason why, despite the fact that I like Star Trek, I have a rather low opinion of Gene Roddenberry.

That’s why whenever someone throws the “Roddenberry’s Vision” phrase, I just go “pffft.”
Click to expand...
Yes, and recall how he coined ‘Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations’ (IDIC) to sell merchandise. The Great Bird of the Galaxy had to wet his beak.

Still, I’m glad he created the series.
 
tomarin said:
I learned recently - I think it was from the Metv website - that the theme to ‘Hogan’s Heroes’ also had lyrics, also never sung. Apparently Roddenberry wasn’t the first person to invent this game.

And they’re actually pretty good - here’s the first verse:

Heroes, heroes, husky men of war,

Sons of all the heroes, of the war before. 

We’re all heroes up to our ear-o’s 

You ask questions,

We make suggestions, 

That’s what we’re heroes for.
Click to expand...
Hmm. Were the song and lyrics written by different people? It’s possible it was originally written with lyrics but the producers decided to use the music only.
 
didymus said:
Hmm. Were the song and lyrics written by different people? It’s possible it was originally written with lyrics but the producers decided to use the music only.
Click to expand...
For Star Trek, yes, different people, no, producers deciding to use the music only.

The music was composed by Alexander Courage, but according to Shatner’s documentary Chaos on the Bridge (and other sources such that it has become common knowledge), the contract Courage signed had clause that allowed Roddenberry to write lyrics and be entitled to 50% of the royalties; something he missed, thinking it was just a boilerplate contract. Courage considered this an ethical breach and scored no further episodes except for two in the third season as a courtesy to Robert Justman.

The reasoning Roddenberry allegedly used was that he had to make money somewhere and he wasn’t sure he would get any from the profits from Star Trek. The lyrics were never meant to be used, only to exist.

And the lyrics Roddenberry penned, like many of the episodes he wrote, were terrible (I know what they are, and in spite of myself, even have them memorized).
 
porthos11 said:
For Star Trek, yes, different people, no, producers deciding to use the music only.

The music was composed by Alexander Courage, but according to Shatner’s documentary Chaos on the Bridge (and other sources such that it has become common knowledge), the contract Courage signed had clause that allowed Roddenberry to write lyrics and be entitled to 50% of the royalties; something he missed, thinking it was just a boilerplate contract. Courage considered this an ethical breach and scored no further episodes except for two in the third season as a courtesy to Robert Justman.

The reasoning Roddenberry allegedly used was that he had to make money somewhere and he wasn’t sure he would get any from the profits from Star Trek. The lyrics were never meant to be used, only to exist.

And the lyrics Roddenberry penned, like many of the episodes he wrote, were terrible (I know what they are, and in spite of myself, even have them memorized).
Click to expand...
No, I meant the Hogan’s Heroes song sounds more like something that might have actually have been used. I know Roddenbarry’s “lyrics” were just a ripoff.

OK, I just Googled and it looks like the song and lyrics both belong to Jerry Fielding.
 
didymus said:
Hmm. Were the song and lyrics written by different people? It’s possible it was originally written with lyrics but the producers decided to use the music only.
Click to expand...
I don’t know who wrote the Hogan’s Heroes lyrics, or why. To me the Star Trek lyrics are not so far beyond what one would expect to hear in a theme song, and I believe other shows such as MASH had theme songs with lyrics that weren’t used (if I recall correctly, the lyrics to MASH were written by Robert Altman’s thirteen-year-old son).

I do know that in the bad old days before musicians and song writers seemed to know anything about intellectual property rights, it was a fairly common practice for record producers (like Barry Gordy, founder of Motown Records) to give themselves a writing credit on a song that they didn’t write, in exchange for producing the song, thereby earning an extra cut for themselves without doing any real work. So it seems like this trick of either writing lyrics to a song that wouldn’t be used, or simply adding a writing credit for yourself because you gave the go-ahead to produce a recording, was something insiders knew about and took advantage of whenever they could.
 
tomarin said:
Yes, and recall how he coined ‘Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations’ (IDIC) to sell merchandise. The Great Bird of the Galaxy had to wet his beak.

Still, I’m glad he created the series.
Click to expand...
Leonard Nimoy expressed disbelief and annoyance at Roddenberry for trying to make the Spock character wear the IDIC necklace to promote said branded merchandise. I guess he didn’t have the evolved sensibility Picard had! 😉
 
Padres1969 said:
Partly, since starting off with the doctor being the center of a show that primarily featured Kirk and Spock was just odd. But mainly because it’s a monster of the week episode featuring one of their less than stellar rubber monsters (w/suction cups!) whose big evil was that it was a junkie for salt. Why it didn’t just go to the mess hall and steal the salt shakers… 🤷
Click to expand...
Allergy to iodine?
 
John_Lazarus said:
Allergy to iodine?
Click to expand...
Anyone notice that when we were kids no one talked about Cosmic Horrors having iodine allergies? Now they have separate temples for iodine allergic Things Man Was Not Meant To Know and newer copies of the Necronomicon are penned with warning labels.

Things were much simpler when we were kids.

Tom A.
Fnord
 
Bataar said:
I watched that video a couple of nights ago. It’s funny because, while not coming to that extreme of a conclusion, I’ve thought along the same lines several times through some of Star Trek.
Click to expand...
That video is kind of nonsensical as it ignores several truths within the Trek universe that counter what they’re saying. The Federation doesn’t conquer or otherwise force their members to join. They’re not “facist” in that they don’t have any dictator but rather a democratically elected leader and legislature. He compounds this mistake by assuming that Starfleet and the Federation are the same entities when taking issue with the Starfleet internal military justice system that is independent from the Federation’s civilian court system. Most of the “resource” planets the Federation has were uninhabited and otherwise unused by anyone else. His issues with the Federation controlling all aspects of life, which he focuses on transportation specifically, are ridiculous as it ignores that there are plenty of non-Starfleet vessels we see over the 50 years of trek that are either non-Starfleet or even non-Federation such as Kassidy Yates civilian ship the Xhosa never mind local planetary ships we’ve seen such as the Vulcan ships seen in Unification Part II.
I could continue on but his whole concept is a very slanted and cherry picked, so much so that it’s mind blowingly dumb.
 
Padres1969 said:
That video is kind of nonsensical as it ignores several truths within the Trek universe that counter what they’re saying.
I could continue on but his whole concept is a very slanted and cherry picked, so much so that it’s mind blowingly dumb.
Click to expand...
True, however it did have some points which others have also pointed out. We do only see the military (starfleet) view of the universe. The research/exploration craft of the Federation are controlled by the military. There is no money.

On that, Roddenberry messed up. Money is a medium of exchange, and as such, isn’t good or bad (but extremely useful. Back when Magic cards first came out and there was a lot of trading over the internet, a certain type of card became the de-facto unit of currency because barter is inefficient).

There was another scifi show around that time, Blake’s 7, that had an evil Federation that was chasing the heroes. There was some speculation on line that the two federations were the same; wish I could remember the arguments (and wish Deja-news was still in existence so I could find old posts). Remember, these arguments were being made in the early days of ST:G, so a lot of the subsequent evidence didn’t exist.

There was a humorous ST:G script posted on Usenet in the mid 80’s that had the Hologram technicians losing interest in fixing the thing right when they found out they weren’t being paid because there was no money. As the script put it:

Zoom in on control panel. We see that it has been installed upside down

Later when the Hologram almost kills the crew again, the technicians point out that they get what they are paid for.

Tom A.
ST: A new planet every week. B7: A new plot every week. - From the ST vs B7 comparison chart, still available on the the Web
 
Padres1969 said:
That video is kind of nonsensical as it ignores several truths within the Trek universe that counter what they’re saying. The Federation doesn’t conquer or otherwise force their members to join. They’re not “facist” in that they don’t have any dictator but rather a democratically elected leader and legislature. He compounds this mistake by assuming that Starfleet and the Federation are the same entities when taking issue with the Starfleet internal military justice system that is independent from the Federation’s civilian court system. Most of the “resource” planets the Federation has were uninhabited and otherwise unused by anyone else. His issues with the Federation controlling all aspects of life, which he focuses on transportation specifically, are ridiculous as it ignores that there are plenty of non-Starfleet vessels we see over the 50 years of trek that are either non-Starfleet or even non-Federation such as Kassidy Yates civilian ship the Xhosa never mind local planetary ships we’ve seen such as the Vulcan ships seen in Unification Part II.
I could continue on but his whole concept is a very slanted and cherry picked, so much so that it’s mind blowingly dumb.
Click to expand...
Certainly the economics of Star Trek is all over the place. Earth itself obviously enjoys an economy of abundance, i.e. everyone is guaranteed food, shelter, education & entertainment which allows them to follow higher pursuits or play video games all day. But there is still private property although the economy as a whole must be centrally planned. The various series and movies go back and forth as to whether the Federation has money.

As for the Federation governance we only see the Council. We don’t know how member species choose their representatives. I’m sure the Vulcans would choose something more logical than voting.

Btw, here’s a clip from DS9 with Cisco ranting against the Federation’s Earth-centric policies toward the Maquis:
youtube.com/watch?v=crpUHa9_pJ0

And here he is confronting a Maqui leader:
youtube.com/watch?v=xy5jAixHhSA

Like a good Starfleet officer he follows orders and renders a whole planet uninhabitable.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top