Stars adopting African babies, now Madonna's getting in on the act

[Liberalsaved]

Seems like it was willingly. That article makes it all sound a bit jumbled, but not by any means forced.

 

[CathCentrist]

I find this latest chapter on Madonna to be the height of her phoniness. Angelina Jolie is hogging the spotlight on adopting foreign babies and Madonna wants some of the publicty. Crucifying herself on stage didnt cut it I suppose.

Now the nanny has three kids to look after.

 

[MooCowSteph]

Seems like it was willingly. That article makes it all sound a bit jumbled, but not by any means forced.

What he was saying is that when he took the baby to the orphanage it was because he was ill and the father was unable to care for him in his ill state. He never thought the baby was going to be adopted. And then he goes on to be quoted saying his pastor pressured him into it. He did know when he went to court that the baby was going to be taken. But he also said he didn’t understand the court documents. I feel badly for the man. He only consented because he had no help from extended family, and had lost his wife and two other children. He was hoping to remarry and bring his son back home.

 

[porkscratchings]

uk social services would have issues with this. if a child is to be adopted, the following rules have to be followed.

1. prospective adopters have to be accessed for suitability and have criminal records check done.
2. adopters have to match the child’s ethnicity, culture and religion in order to provide an adoption that is in the child’s best interests.
3. if 1 and 2 is ok, the child is placed with the adopters and a period of observation is followed b4 full adoption takes places,just in case the adopters can’t cope with the kid, the kid don’t like the adopters or there are other problems that might crop up.

The fact that none of these rules have been followed in madge’s case speaks volumes.

Money and fame can bypass the rules it seems. Michael jackson and Gary Glitter have money and fame - guess that makes them perfect adopters, then.

 

[2shelbys]

Seems like it was willingly. That article makes it all sound a bit jumbled, but not by any means forced.

Read it again. She used her wealth and star status to violate adoption laws in both countries and to take a child that was not meant to be up for adoption.

 

[Explorer]

It seems like there might be the presumption here that this baby will be naturally better off being a pampered son of an self indulgent star than to stay in a poor country, where his humble Christian father hopes to raise in to love Jesus. I wonder if there’s maybe some underlying racism too?

There are plenty of true orphans in Africa. It’s odd that Madonna didn’t pick a child that had no mother OR father. Also, I think our Church teaches that the poor have as much dignity and worth as the rich. Somehow it seems like Madonna made these people feel insulted and offended. I think she was insensitive.

 

[a_cermak]

What he was saying is that when he took the baby to the orphanage it was because he was ill and the father was unable to care for him in his ill state. He never thought the baby was going to be adopted. And then he goes on to be quoted saying his pastor pressured him into it. He did know when he went to court that the baby was going to be taken. But he also said he didn’t understand the court documents. I feel badly for the man. He only consented because he had no help from extended family, and had lost his wife and two other children. He was hoping to remarry and bring his son back home.

The baby was put in the orphanage a week after his mother died. He is now 1 year old, that means that he has stayed in the orphanage for a year already. So when was this father going to get his child back? Was he going to send for him when he was 2? 3? 5? 15? Was he prepared to contest Madonna’s adoption?

Don’t forget, Madonna has 2 other children, who she is apparently a good mother to. By and large she keeps them out of the spotlight. She was reared by decent people, and is probably herself a decent mother.

 

[2shelbys]

The baby was put in the orphanage a week after his mother died. He is now 1 year old, that means that he has stayed in the orphanage for a year already. So when was this father going to get his child back? Was he going to send for him when he was 2? 3? 5? 15? Was he prepared to contest Madonna’s adoption?

He should not have had to contest it. It is illegal in their country for any foreign citizen to adopt a Malawi child but somehow rich, famous Madonna is bypassing the law. She also has not met the legal requirements in her country of residence. The father was trying to do the best for his child within his meager means. He felt that the child would receive better care than he could provide at this time. Situations like that regularly happen this country as well. Are you accusing him of neglect?

Don’t forget, Madonna has 2 other children, who she is apparently a good mother to. By and large she keeps them out of the spotlight. She was reared by decent people, and is probably herself a decent mother.

What do we really know about any of this. She is “apparantly a good mother”? Based on what exactly? What do you know of her parenting skills or home enviroment? How did her upbringing by “decent people” figure into her wildly promiscuous and often perverse past? Look at her book “Sex” which is considered by many as pornographic. Is anything in there indicative of an upbringing by decent people or a lifestyle suited for raising children? I am not assuming that she is not a good mother because I know nothing of her either, I just have a problem with the implication that the child would naturally be better off being the child of an self indulgent star with a questionable moral background than with his own father. I also have a problem with breaking the laws of two nations in order to facilitate it.

 

[a_cermak]

He should not have had to contest it. It is illegal in their country for any foreign citizen to adopt a Malawi child but somehow rich, famous Madonna is bypassing the law. She also has not met the legal requirements in her country of residence. The father was trying to do the best for his child within his meager means. He felt that the child would receive better care than he could provide at this time. Situations like that regularly happen this country as well. Are you accusing him of neglect?

Someone leaves a child in an orphanage for a year, yes I would question their ability or motivation to care for their child.

What do we really know about any of this. She is “apparantly a good mother”? Based on what exactly? What do you know of her parenting skills or home enviroment? How did her upbringing by “decent people” figure into her wildly promiscuous and often perverse past? Look at her book “Sex” which is considered by many as pornographic. Is anything in there indicative of an upbringing by decent people or a lifestyle suited for raising children? I am not assuming that she is not a good mother because I know nothing of her either, I just have a problem with the implication that the child would naturally be better off being the child of an self indulgent star with a questionable moral background than with his own father. I also have a problem with breaking the laws of two nations in order to facilitate it.

I would say she’s apparently a good mother because she has kept her children out of the limelight and allowed them to have a close to normal childhood. That’s not easy for people in the limelight to do. She also had a nurse and child psychologist on hand to help the child cope with his change in surroundings. That sounds like someone who has given some thought to this child.

As far as the laws in question, no one at this point in time knows for sure how long this adoption has been in the works in Malawi. Yes, they have a rule about residency, however in some cases in some nations that has been done by proxy. Perhaps Madonna owns a home in Malawi. In many places, that will count as residency.

Are you sure the laws in Scotland were not followed? I doubt they would have neglected that aspect of things. If they did skirt them, I am sure the Scot authorities will be insisting that they make it right.

I believe that this child will be better off with Madonna and her family than he would have been in the orphanage, which is where he was at when adopted.

 

[2shelbys]

Someone leaves a child in an orphanage for a year, yes I would question their ability or motivation to care for their child.

That is easy for yo to say living in the pampered world we do. This man lives in a very poor area. Who are you to question his ability or motivations when you know nothing of his situation.

I would say she’s apparently a good mother because she has kept her children out of the limelight and allowed them to have a close to normal childhood. That’s not easy for people in the limelight to do.

Child molestors keep their kid’s secreted away too. You are merely assuming she is a good mother because that is what you want to believe. You really have no evidence of that.

She also had a nurse and child psychologist on hand to help the child cope with his change in surroundings. That sounds like someone who has given some thought to this child.

As far as the laws in question, no one at this point in time knows for sure how long this adoption has been in the works in Malawi. Yes, they have a rule about residency, however in some cases in some nations that has been done by proxy. Perhaps Madonna owns a home in Malawi. In many places, that will count as residency.

Are you sure the laws in Scotland were not followed? I doubt they would have neglected that aspect of things. If they did skirt them, I am sure the Scot authorities will be insisting that they make it right.

If she had given any thought at all to it she would have gone about it legally. You really need to read about this situation. She had not even begun the process in her own country (England, not Scotland) and was facing possible jail time if she did not do so within 12 days. In Malawi it is illegal for a foreigner to adopt a Malawi child period and no, Madonna does not have a house there.

I believe that this child will be better off with Madonna and her family than he would have been in the orphanage, which is where he was at when adopted.

You believe it only because that is what you want to believe. You have no knowledge of the father’s situation, the level of care at the orphanage, or Madonna’s home situation. In any situation regarding custody where there is no known danger to the child you always err on the side of the natural parent, especially when laws are being broken to take that child away.

 

[a_cermak]

In any situation regarding custody where there is no known danger to the child you always err on the side of the natural parent, especially when laws are being broken to take that child away.

That’s true, except where the child is in an orphanage. For a year. That’s the thing I can’t get beyond. When was the father going to get the child back? When he was 2? 3? 4?

In the states, if a parent surrenders the child to an adoption center, and does it with full knowledge (which the father has stated that he did understand what adoption was), then they lose their parental rights to the child.

 

[MooCowSteph]

It seems like there might be the presumption here that this baby will be naturally better off being a pampered son of an self indulgent star than to stay in a poor country, where his humble Christian father hopes to raise in to love Jesus. I wonder if there’s maybe some underlying racism too?

There are plenty of true orphans in Africa. It’s odd that Madonna didn’t pick a child that had no mother OR father. Also, I think our Church teaches that the poor have as much dignity and worth as the rich. Somehow it seems like Madonna made these people feel insulted and offended. I think she was insensitive.

I totally agree

 

[cathgal]

Don’t forget, Madonna has 2 other children, who she is apparently a good mother to. By and large she keeps them out of the spotlight. She was reared by decent people, and is probably herself a decent mother.

Is that so?

Not because she doesn’t want her kids to know that their mother’s been misbehaving in the spotlight, like smooching B. Spears and pulling a crucifixion stunt?

Would her kids be proud of her when they’re old enough to know? Probably…

 

[2shelbys]

That’s true, except where the child is in an orphanage. For a year. That’s the thing I can’t get beyond. When was the father going to get the child back? When he was 2? 3? 4?

In the states, if a parent surrenders the child to an adoption center, and does it with full knowledge (which the father has stated that he did understand what adoption was), then they lose their parental rights to the child.

You are using the words orphanage and “adoption center” as thought they are one in the same all over the world. The father has stated that he had no intention of offering the child for adoption and that he did not know that could happen. We do not know exactly how the process works in Malawi other than there being laws that make Madonna’s adoption of the child illegal. There is no evidence that he “surrendered” the child (which is a legal term, not just an act), only that he was seeking better care than he could provide under his current circumstances. There are plenty of people here in the states who place their children in the care of others while they sort out their problems with drugs and other issues. Sometimes it does take years. What business is it of ours to decide how much time he should have to turn his fortunes around?

 

[2shelbys]

Originally Posted by Explorer forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*It seems like there might be the presumption here that this baby will be naturally better off being a pampered son of an self indulgent star than to stay in a poor country, where his humble Christian father hopes to raise in to love Jesus. I wonder if there’s maybe some underlying racism too? *

There are plenty of true orphans in Africa. It’s odd that Madonna didn’t pick a child that had no mother OR father. Also, I think our Church teaches that the poor have as much dignity and worth as the rich. Somehow it seems like Madonna made these people feel insulted and offended. I think she was insensitive.

All very good points. Was she insensitive or was she just arrogant and self-serving? The way it was described, with her lining up a bunch of children to choose from as though she was shopping, makes it sound pretty superficial and uncaring. It was described as being reminiscent of a slave auction. She apparantly did no research into family background or circumstances. She did not care to find the one most in need of help. One with no family to return to. She just picked out the cutest one.

 

[Teakafrog]

She would have to fight tooth and nail for it in the US. Heres the policy of the National Association of Black Social Workers:

Summary and Conclusion

---

NABSW has a long history of promoting the preservation of families of African ancestry, singled out for its position on transracial adoption nearly thirty years ago, the organization has always maintained the importance of finding culturally grounded options for children of African ancestry before giving consideration to placing our children outside of the community. The Indian Child Welfare Act has emphasized, for close to thirty years, that Native American children be placed within their tribe or the Native American community before being considered for placement in other communities. The cornerstone of this legislation supports the notion of the importance of culture in the lives of Native American children. IEPA, and ASFA seem to deny the importance of culture in the lives of children of African ancestry.

NOPE. Doesn’t work this way in the real world. I know this, because we are as white as they come, and we have adopted a beautiful, healthy black baby. In fact, while we were in the process of getting ‘matched’ for adoption, there were at least 8 other black babies that were possibilities, but for one reason or another didn’t work out (birthmom decided to keep them, or she chose another couple). In most cases, the mother chooses the adoptive parents, except in state-run foster-adopt situations. None of the black birthmoms we had contact with had any problems with us being white, they just wanted a good Christian home for the baby they couldn’t provide for.

 

[estesbob]

NOPE. Doesn’t work this way in the real world. I know this, because we are as white as they come, and we have adopted a beautiful, healthy black baby. In fact, while we were in the process of getting ‘matched’ for adoption, there were at least 8 other black babies that were possibilities, but for one reason or another didn’t work out (birthmom decided to keep them, or she chose another couple). In most cases, the mother chooses the adoptive parents, except in state-run foster-adopt situations. None of the black birthmoms we had contact with had any problems with us being white, they just wanted a good Christian home for the baby they couldn’t provide for.

No way I argue with the voice of experience. Congratulations on your new child! may the Lord bless you , the Child and the Childs birth parents !!

 

[maryalene]

I think what is frustrating about this situation is that here you have a dad who appears to want his son. He only took him to the orphanage because he was poor and didn’t feel he could properly care for him. I am sure that the dad is willingly giving up his son for adoption because he believes that it will result in a better life for the son. However, since the dad appears to care for his son and has expressed a desire to be reunited with him, wouldn’t it have been nice for Madonna to help the dad get on his feet so his family could be reunited? I think that would be the more noble thing to do.

 

[GarryOwen]

What’s with all the stars getting their own African baby? It’s a nice idea, but I was reading about Madonna. The baby’s father is still alive. Why doesn’t she just help out the dad of the baby? It looks as if some people over there are suspicious about her motives and trying to put a stop to it. Is this a new publicity stunt?

Why did she let the child stay at home, but at the same time financially support him and his remaining relatives.

 

[fin]

Meg Ryan adopted a baby from China from what i heard in the news soemtime ago.