I marvel at God’s works, His timing is everything…He knows the hearts…I have nothing against baptism, it’s part of our walk…He knows when the rebirth happens…He knows when we reach every step of our walk…I bet I’m not the only one who repented and called on Christ and was baptized some time after…
I live in the deep south, and 98% of those around me are Baptist and from The Church of Christ. I only know, literally, a handful of Catholics. My mom and I, my brother (fallen away), and two people who said they are Catholic but don’t practice the faith at all in any way. Then I know a handful of people who say they are Catholic, and even attend Mass sporatically, but who have never been Baptised. One was a Baptist, and goes to those services sometimes, and sometimes goes to Church (not really sure why he says he’s Catholic actually). And the other is a mason. The others that go to Mass, I’m not sure of, I don’t really know anyone. I have no idea if they are baptised Catholic, or Catholic wannabes, or people who frequent services at other churches. I do know the concensus here is that you go where you want to go, and you are what you want to be. Which kind of amuses me but that’s the way it is here. As for Churches, I don’t have one in my city. "My " Church is in the next city over and is the only one for miles. There is only one priest presiding. So, yes, it depends on where you live. When I lived in Chicago, there were Churches everywhere, and the majority where Catholic or Jewish where I lived. There was a huge mosque in my neighborhood too. But there was never more than three priests at one Church, and usually there was just one or maybe two.
That’s pretty interesting. I might check out this book. Do you own the book, and have easy access to it? I just wonder if the number of Catholics counted in this book include fallen away Catholics, dissendent Catholics, Cafe Catholics? Because the Church considers one Catholic for life upon Baptism. So even those who convert to other faiths are still considered Catholic by the Church. If they’re doing a census, how are they acquiring the information? Are they going by Baptismal records?
It might just be where he lives and what he sees around him?
So, then experience does trump Baptism, which is salvifc, according to the Scriptures. Without Baptism, you have no forgiveness of sin.
Sure, I got into weird stuff before I got saves(wege boards and the like) I repented and renounced that…This is what is so puzzling. If this is the case, then what is the offended urgency of taking one’s time to learn the faith?.. We need to learn the scripture and to be taught/equipped by our pastor but we need to be “in Christ” to do that… Your church teaches your tradition same as the othrodox church along with the scriptures…There nothing wrong with that…The evangelist preaches the good news people respond and come to Christ(they are a living stone part of the body of Christ…They plug into a physical church to be descipled…
Why, you little ducky you!…
Doesnt’ sound at all like you felt short shafted because you were not admitted to any sacraments. ?
Luke 14:27-33
28 For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? 29 Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, ‘This man began to build, and was not able to finish.’ 31 Or what king, going to encounter another king in war, will not sit down first and take counsel whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 And if not, while the other is yet a great way off, he sends an embassy and asks terms of peace. 33 So therefore, whoever of you does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple.
Would this not include renounce all those things to which one might think he had a right, or “deserved” to have?
He forgave me when I repented…If it takes the water baptize to save we could just drag people off the street and water baptism them…It’s a process…He knows when the heart is redeemed…like I said I have nothing against baptism…
You are saved through Baptism. Read the following passages:
Salvation is not an instantaneous event. It is a lifelong process.
Of course experience trumps Baptism. Someone of another faith, and who is dedicated and loyal to that faith, and follows that religion with his/her heart is 'ignorant though no fault of their own" as the Catechism states, and according to that Church teaching, can still be saved.
Baptism is a necessity, either by water, blood or desire. Those who are not baptized through no fault of their own may be saved, but only if they are of the disposition that if they knew it was necessary, they would. Invincible ignorance is not a safety net to catch all the unbaptized, but is an allowance for those who are truly ignorant of the Church, which is a very rare thing indeed.
Repent , baptism , spirit filling , maturity…It’s a process but it starts with an instantaneous event…I had a powerful experience when I knelt and repented after hearing the gospel…I felt the weight of the world lift off my shoulder.I went home and laid in bed and for hours I felt washed/cleaned inside…I just felt joy bubbling out,i didn’t know whether to laugh or cry…It went for hours till I fell peacefully asleep.i woke up the next day and fell the world looked clearer…I had never had any kind of spiritual experience before…My life was radically altered.
I never said it’s not part of our christian faith walk to maturity…
it is not merely a part of our faith walk. It confers sanctifying grace.
Those who follow another faith are not going to know that being baptised is necessary because they follow a faith that teaches the opposite. By virtue of the fact that they are faithfully following their religion, they are dedicated to God, and of course if they knew they had to be baptised they would do so in their efforts to be in communion with God. Just because you, or I, or anyone else says so doesn’t make it true to someone who is faithful to another religion. Just as you are dedicated to your religion and would reject the notions of those outside of your faith, the faithful non-Catholics are the same. There are those who are truly ignorant of the Church because they have their own religion. Knowing that Catholicism exists doesn’t mean someone is knowledgeable of Catholicism. Those who know Catholicism are either already Catholic or in RCIA, or soon will be in RCIA.
This is nothing short of subjectivism, and is not the teaching of the Church.
Of course it is, straight out of the catechism: those who are ignorant of the Church, through no fault of their own, can still be saved. That doesn’t mean that just because a person is told to become Catholic or they will go to Hell, that they will have this big epiphany, deny all their lifelong values and beliefs, and run to the nearest and soonest RCIA class. That means that that if they have found God, even though a different religion, and are faithful to God, even though a different religion, that they can still be saved. That’s what the Church teaches. To deny it, is just refusing that particular plate (teaching) in the Cafeteria.
Yes, it is true. Ask your priest. It’s always best to try to evangelise, but that doesn’t mean someone earns a one-way ticket to Hell for not going for a Catholic’s teachings hook, line and sinker. We evangelize in the hopes that what we say will click with someone and it will lead them to ask questions, hear answers and want to learn more. But that doesn’t mean everyone we try to evangelize will simply just drop everything, have a major ephiphany, and seek to become Catholic. And it doesn’t mean that when this happens, the person is going straight to Hell. It means that if someone is practicing another faith, and is faithful to God, they can still be saved.
I guess we can scrap any and all efforts at Ecumenism (which rightly practiced means reunion with Rome) because it doesn’t matter what you believe. All roads lead to heaven.
Not all roads, just roads taken by those on a journey to God. But fortunately for us humans, there isn’t just one road.
There is only one road…Jesus Christ