Statement of Santa Cruz-Fr John Corapi

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I just went to the SOLT website…and it does appear to be a religious order, in which the priests take vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience. societyofourlady.net/priests-formation.html
I’m not sure how Fr. Corapi fits in here…whether or not he’s a professed member of their order…I assumed he was because of the SOLT I see after his name sometimes.
From the website you linked…
promises of Poverty, Chastity and Obedience
before making their perpetual promises

Religious make Vows, secular priests make Promises.

They are not a religious order they are a Society of Apostolic Life.

From the first sentence of this webpage of theirs, Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity.
The Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity (SOLT) is a Society Of Apostolic Life comprised of Priests, Brothers, Deacons, Sisters, and Laity

From the Code of Canon Law;
Can. 731 §1 Societies of apostolic life resemble institutes of consecrated life. Their members, without taking religious vows, pursue the apostolic purpose proper to each society. Living a fraternal life in common in their own special manner, they strive for the perfection of charity through the observance of the constitutions.

§2 Among these societies are some in which the members, through a bond defined in the constitutions, undertake to live the evangelical counsels.
So SOLT would appear to adhere to Can. 731 §2.

Maybe someone who has a bit more understanding of this sort of thing might respond.
 
From the website you linked…
promises of Poverty, Chastity and Obedience
before making their perpetual promises

Religious make Vows, secular priests make Promises.

They are not a religious order they are a Society of Apostolic Life.

From the first sentence of this webpage of theirs, Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity.
The Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity (SOLT) is a Society Of Apostolic Life comprised of Priests, Brothers, Deacons, Sisters, and Laity

From the Code of Canon Law;
Can. 731 §1 Societies of apostolic life resemble institutes of consecrated life. Their members, without taking religious vows, pursue the apostolic purpose proper to each society. Living a fraternal life in common in their own special manner, they strive for the perfection of charity through the observance of the constitutions.

§2 Among these societies are some in which the members, through a bond defined in the constitutions, undertake to live the evangelical counsels.
So SOLT would appear to adhere to Can. 731 §2.

Maybe someone who has a bit more understanding of this sort of thing might respond.
I must admit, I am confused. SOLT seems to have novitiate, etc, and ordains priests… how are they different from relgious orders? If not religous priests, I assume they are diocesan priests…is there a third kind…diocesan, religious, and ?? If Fr. Corapi is diocesan, what diocese does he belong to? And how do promise differ from vows? If someone could indeed clear this up, I’d appreciate it. I’m very confused. Thanks.
 
I must admit, I am confused. SOLT seems to have novitiate, etc, and ordains priests… how are they different from relgious orders? If not religous priests, I assume they are diocesan priests…is there a third kind…diocesan, religious, and ?? If Fr. Corapi is diocesan, what diocese does he belong to? And how do promise differ from vows? If someone could indeed clear this up, I’d appreciate it. I’m very confused. Thanks.
There are two kinds of priests, secular and religious.

Diocesen priests are seculars.

Priests in religious communities that make promises are seculars.

Priests in religious communites that have vows are regulars.

For the difference between promises and vows I will let someone more knowledgeable than I am answer.

Religious life and religious communites are very confusing for the laity, heck they are even confusing for us in the religious communites.
 
Let’s start with the canonical and historical differences. There are different kinds of institutes.

Religious orders
Religious congregations
Secular orders
Societies of Apostolic Life
Secular Institutes
Autonomous monasteries
Hermits
Priestly Fraternities
Confraternities

Each of these makes a different kind of commitment and their relationship to each other and to the Church is historically different.

There are very few religious orders. Let’s look at them in order of their founding.

LATIN CHURCH

Carmelites (Two obediences: O’Carm and OCD)
Benedictines (Many obediences: OSB, Cistercians, Camaldolese, Trappists and others)
Augustinians (Several obediences: Augustinian Recollects, Canons, Assumptionists and others)
Carthusians (Each Charter house eventually becomes autonomous)
Norbertines
Crossiers
Dominicans (Do not have their own rule. They follow the rule of the Augustinians)
Franciscans (Three orders with over 100 obediences and four rules)
Society of Jesus (do not have a rule nor do they follow anyone’s rule. Ignatius did not give them a rule).

EASTERN CHURCHES

Basilians (Order of St. Basil: each monastery is autonomous)

In the Latin Church we also have religious congregations, which are too many to list.

There are important historical and canonical differences between congregations and orders.

Orders make solemn vows, congregations make simple vows.

The major difference between solemn vows and simple vows are several:

Those who make a solemn vow of poverty may never individually own property. Those who make a simple vow of poverty may own property, if their institute allows them to do so. However, they may not make use of their assets. Those assets are there for them to give away at their discretion and the community does not become involved. Some congregations do not allow for private ownership of property, but they may do so, whereas an order may not allow this.

Those who make a solemn vow of chastity may never enter into a valid marriage, even an illicit one. The marriage vows are also solemn vows. Because the person is already in solemn vows, that person cannot validly make vows that are juxtaposed to each other. Therefore, any attempt to marry without a dispensation results in an invalid marriage. Those who are in simple vows and attempt to marry are validly, but illegally married. In both cases, and his partner, if he understands the gravity of the matter, are in a state of grave sin.

Congregations can be either pontifical or diocesan. The highest ranking superior in a diocesan congregation is the bishop of the home diocese. The highest ranking superior in a pontifical institute is always the pope. All religious orders are pontifical. Bishops have no jurisdiction over pontifical congregations or orders. They only have jurisdiction over the work that the individual religious does for them, not any work that he or she does for his or her institute.

There are Societies of Apostolic Life. In a society of Apstolic Life the member may promise to live according to the evangelical counsels, live in community and have many of the other elements that you would find in a congregation or an order. The canonical difference is that a member of such a society does not make vows. He or she promises to live the counsels, according to the constitution of the Society. In the event that he or she wishes to leave, the major superior can grant a dispensation. A person in vows must go to the Holy See for a dispensation.

To answer the above question, no Fr. Corapi is not a Diocesan priest, nor is he a regular priest (consecrated religious). He is a secular priest, just like a diocesan priest, but he is not attached to any bishop. He is attached to the Society (SOLT). At his ordination he did not make a promise of obedience to the bishop nor did he make a promise of celibacy. He had already promised obedience to the Society and its superiors and he had already promised to live celibate chastity.

There are many priests who are secular, but not Diocesan. Diocesan is a deacon, priest or bishop who belongs to a diocese under the authority of a Diocesan bishop. For example, an auxiliary bishop is under the authority of the Diocesan bishop, even though he too is a bishop. A Maryknoll, Missionhurts, or an SOLT is not under any bishop. Like any other priests, these men need faculties to function in a diocese. The bishop grants those. They do not answer to the bishop in matters concerning their daily activities, daily life, spiritual life, ownership of property and transitions from one place to another. They answer to the superior of their society, just as religious do. Obviously, since they have not made a vow of obedience, the Church cannot impose all of the canonical penalties that it would impose on religious for disobeying. Disobedience would just that, a sin, without a violation of vows on top of it.

It is not only easier to get out of a society, because you get your dispensation from the major superior, but it is also easier to dismiss from a society. Once you have made solemn vows, it is almost impossible to dismiss from a religious order. Dismissal from a congregation is a little less complicated, but still more difficult than dismissal from a society. In a congregation and an order the dismissal has to be approved by the proper authorities in the Roman Curia, if you’re a Latin Catholic or the Patriarch, if you’re an Eastern Catholic. Remember, Eastern Catholics have monks. Congregations in the Eastern Church are relatively new compared to the Latin Church. I don’t know if they have Societies of Apostolic Life. I have never met any among Eastern Catholics.

To wrap this up, a member of society can be a priest or a brother, but he is not a diocesan priest or diocesan brother either. He is attached to his society, not to a diocese.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Bro JR,

You get the gold medal for 1) knowing all this extensive history, and 2) being able to explain it plainly…

:eek:

😃
 
I find this statement disturbing. Calling the bishop of Corpus Christi’s actions “illicit?” Wow. And then ending with an advertising pitch to buy more stuff? Wow. My understanding is that Fr. Corapi is a multi-millionaire, and I am sure he will be just fine without my financial support. I sincerely hope that this release was a bone-head move by someone with more enthusiam than judgment, and not something approved by Fr. Corapi. He should ask them to retract it.
Illicit means…“not legally permitted”. You are personalizing what was said but if you are “disturbed”…OK fine. What disturbs me is your hit and run allegation that Father Corapi is a “multi-millionaire” without 1. Corroborating this statement and 2. Explaining what is wrong with being wealthy instead of leaving the impression that wealth, ipso facto, means the person is less than decent.
 
Bro JR,

You get the gold medal for 1) knowing all this extensive history, and 2) being able to explain it plainly…

:eek:

😃
I think we should have an MVP Award. (most valuable poster) of the year.

I nominate Brother JR!

I almost always learn something in each of his posts. If, not new information, a new way of looking at old info. Thank you, very much!
 
If Father has money (I had wondered how the “drug” use would have been satisfied if true), then why did he say he didn’t in one of his talks…he spoke how freeing it was not to have money, to have someone make his decisions for him, etc. not to worry about bills, etc.

This was after his lawsuit and after the website with his DVD’s etc.

I don’t begrudge a priest money, but I know he made it seem that way, maybe later he changed it because others have said he talked of having quite a bit of money. I didnt’ see every show.
 
Illicit means…“not legally permitted”. You are personalizing what was said but if you are “disturbed”…OK fine. What disturbs me is your hit and run allegation that Father Corapi is a “multi-millionaire” without 1. Corroborating this statement and 2. Explaining what is wrong with being wealthy instead of leaving the impression that wealth, ipso facto, means the person is less than decent.
Have you read the thread? Fr. Corapi admits he is a multimillionaire. And why is it an “allegation” - there is nothing inherently wrong with being a multi-millionaire and I never said there was. My comment was that he does not need others to help pay for his defense or to support him through what will hopefully be a short period of administrative leave.
 
You can do that for much less. I know I bought a DVD on his conversion for 3.00 on one site, had Mary in the title, but I forgot it now.

I admit, I was really turned off by the selling and website, but others loved it…it seemed so “home shopper” of religious goods and all his. To each his own though, but saying he didn’t own anything once couldn’t have been true. Why lie?
 
You can do that for much less. I know I bought a DVD on his conversion for 3.00 on one site, had Mary in the title, but I forgot it now.
It’s called “Your Mother Wears Combat Boots.”
I admit, I was really turned off by the selling and website, but others loved it…it seemed so “home shopper” of religious goods and all his. To each his own though, but saying he didn’t own anything once couldn’t have been true. Why lie?
Well, I guess you’re not too happy with CAF or Scott Hahn. They’re hawking books and cd’s all over their websites. :confused:
 
I don’t get Scott’s books except at the library, but he is a secular man trying to make a living for his family.

I didn’t buy that DVD, it was actually a CD, just audio, it was one that had that speech about his conversion, but from another company. They had various ones, “explaining the mass” things like that from different speakers. Mary Foundation I think.

I felt intrigued by his story, was like a soap opera, but when my husband listened to some of it, he said parts sounded embellished, but that’s his logical mind. (and he’s a cop)😉
 
Have you read the thread? Fr. Corapi admits he is a multimillionaire. And why is it an “allegation” - there is nothing inherently wrong with being a multi-millionaire and I never said there was. My comment was that he does not need others to help pay for his defense or to support him through what will hopefully be a short period of administrative leave.
Code:
TMC says in post 6: My understanding is that Fr. Corapi is a multi-millionaire

TMC says in post 13:
Fr. Corapi has said himself many times that he got millions of dollars in a settlement from a lawsuit

Sailor Kenchin in post 26: Father is a multi-millionaire?

You can prove this, I take it.

gurneyhalleck1 says in post 102: Even though he might have millions, can he really use it?

EmperorNapolean in post 135:
He was awarded over $3 million in 2005 in a settlement deal stemming from a lawsuit against the Shasta Regional Medical Center.
 
You can do that for much less. I know I bought a DVD on his conversion for 3.00 on one site, had Mary in the title, but I forgot it now.

I admit, I was really turned off by the selling and website, but others loved it…it seemed so “home shopper” of religious goods and all his. To each his own though, but saying he didn’t own anything once couldn’t have been true. Why lie?
I don’t understand what you mean by your last sentence. Do you mean that he said that at one time he owned nothing? Or since he got his legal settlement that he owns nothing now? (other than his property)

Both statements could be true. I am pretty sure the first statement is true.I will not speculate on the second, but I don’t see how either one is necessarily a lie.
 
I don’t get Scott’s books except at the library, but he is a secular man trying to make a living for his family.
He’s a theologian at Franciscan University. Do you think the library got it for free? What about Pope Benedict XVI new book on Jesus? Are they giving that away for free? Our parish adult faith ministry has cd’s for sale in the back of church. In the past, Father Corapi’s cd’s were there. $3.00 probably covers the cost of the cd and the distribution of it.
I felt intrigued by his story, was like a soap opera, but when my husband listened to some of it, he said parts sounded embellished, but that’s his logical mind. (and he’s a cop)😉
Jesus had his skeptics too. Read tomorrow’s Gospel, [BIBLEDRB]Luke 11:14-23.
[/BIBLEDRB]
 
Illicit means…“not legally permitted”. You are personalizing what was said but if you are “disturbed”…OK fine. What disturbs me is your hit and run allegation that Father Corapi is a “multi-millionaire” without 1. Corroborating this statement and 2. Explaining what is wrong with being wealthy instead of leaving the impression that wealth, ipso facto, means the person is less than decent.
I’m wondering that myself.

Also wondering about the ‘holier-than-thou’ remarks. They contradict Fr. Corapi’s public persona.

There is a lot of ‘concern’ here about the depth of Father’s pocketbook that seems to be masking a different agenda. Hit and run is a good enough description.
 
I meant he said he lost everything with his addiciton, when he went to the seminary, he was broke, etc. He commented on not having to worry about money, paying bills, credit cards, his needs were taken care, poverty, etc. He said money was shared, he had spoke of the settlement,later I heard much more confusing things. I suppose it doesn’t matter, I didn’t contribute to it, but it seemed to vary. Some say he admitted to having money for himself, others not.

Scott is still secular, he teaches at a university, probably isn’t paid very much, they aren’t usually unless it’s a “big name” and they have tenure. I don’t begrudge him trying to support himself or maybe he puts a lot of money back into his foundation. I just have a great church library and use it often. Fr C’s things seemed very high and the self-promotion at times, unseemly.

My husband is skeptical but has a good “gut”. He hasn’t been wrong often, not perfect by far, but a honed gut. I give him that.
 
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