Statement of the Curatorium of the European Society for Catholic Theology on the current crisis in the Catholic Church

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vs_trumpet

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We, Catholic theologians from 20 countries, gathered together in Ghent for a meeting of the Curatorium (Board) of the European Society for Catholic Theology, are deeply concerned by the current crisis within the Church. We are especially worried that the unconditional lifting of the excommunication of four bishops of the Society of Saint Pius X threatens the internal unity of the Church and the credibility of its witness in the world (Gaudium et spes). This considerably weakens the ability of theologians to dialogue with other disciplines in the academy.

Fundamental issues are at stake with regard to the reception of the Second Vatican Council and must be clearly reaffirmed:
Code: 
* The dynamic character of revelation and tradition, Church teaching and liturgy (Dei verbum, Sacrosanctum concilium)
* The collegial exercise of Church governance (Lumen gentium)
* Full respect for the freedom of conscience and the freedom of religion (Dignitatis humanae)
* The active commitment to ecumenical and interreligious dialogue (Unitatis redintegratio, Nostra aetate)...
 
And the music goes on. But I for one refuse to sing along to it.
 
I have absolutely no problem with any of the positions this group stated in the OP’s message. My problem is with people who see Vatican 2 (The Sequel) as a be-all and end-all *redefinition *of Catholic faith and morals. “Freedom of conscience” does not permit you to selectively reject Catholic teachings and engage in sinful behaviors because your “conscience” tells you otherwise. “The active commitment to ecumenical and interreligious dialogue” does not permit you to deny or water down Truths that have been confirmed in previous councils solely for the purpose of making everybody feel good, and so on.

I honestly don’t think the lifting of excommunication of those four bishops would be the “threat to internal unity” this council perceives, if it weren’t for the personal beliefs of that one bishop. I do not believe His Holiness knew of the bishop’s beliefs; I do know that since the bishop’s beliefs about the Holocaust are not a matter of Catholic faith and morals, they are insufficient cause to be considered in the bishop’s excommunication (or the lifting of the same.)

It’s a good statement, but I fear that like much of Vatican 2 itself it will be twisted to meet the political preconceptions of far too many of the faithful.
 
I think it’s hilarious that people who think the excommunication of Hans Kung was some kind of atrocity object to the lifting of an excommunication imposed for purely jurisdictional reasons. Don’t liberal Catholics generally object to the legalism and authoritarianism of Rome?

This “protest” is an act of intolerance and very probably (I don’t know where these theologians stand on Kung or on the women recently ordained as priests, but I would be surprised if they approve of those excommunications) also of hypocrisy. It’s a pure power play with no principle behind it that I can see.

If they want more openness, they should welcome the diversity of Catholicism, including traditionalism. The fact that the traditionalists won’t return the favor is, of course, irrelevant.

Edwin
 
Kung is not excommunicated. His priestly ministry is fully approved.
 
redrosetea said:
The wolves are circling
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Yup. I think it will now be impossible for Rome to move ahead with reconciliation. Bishops, priests, theologians and laity were upset enough with the MP, this has tipped the cart. Rome will back off IMO.
 
vs_trumpet said:
kuleuven.be/thomas/evkt/index.php?id=66&mail_ID=161&%20mailUser=default

We, Catholic theologians from 20 countries, gathered together in Ghent for a meeting of the Curatorium (Board) of the European Society for Catholic Theology, are deeply concerned by the current crisis within the Church. We are especially worried that the unconditional lifting of the excommunication of four bishops of the Society of Saint Pius X threatens the internal unity of the Church and the credibility of its witness in the world (Gaudium et spes). This considerably weakens the ability of theologians to dialogue with other disciplines in the academy.

Fundamental issues are at stake with regard to the reception of the Second Vatican Council and must be clearly reaffirmed:
Code: 
* The dynamic character of revelation and tradition, Church teaching and liturgy (Dei verbum, Sacrosanctum concilium)
* The collegial exercise of Church governance (Lumen gentium)
* Full respect for the freedom of conscience and the freedom of religion (Dignitatis humanae)
* The active commitment to ecumenical and interreligious dialogue (Unitatis redintegratio, Nostra aetate)...
Click to expand...
The lifting of these excommunications are hardly unconditional.Am I correct in assuming that these men are no longer considered Bishops within non-schismatic Catholicism?
 
Why is it ALWAYS vs trumpet who posts articles that indicate the Church is in turmoil?Agenda,anyone?
 
Too much diplomatic language here. This can be twisted any way by adroit persons to suit their own agenda.
 
Interesting. The organization seems to be composed of a bunch of laymen, mostly from the same town, which seems to be in the Netherlands. The 20 countries from which their “conference” delegates came, are all in Europe. So, for the price of train fare, they got some dissident theological groupies together, gave themselves an important-sounding name and issued their “pronoucement.”

A big nothing.
 
So whoever dissents from the Catholic Consevative line is to be dismissed as a) laity b) from Europe c) big nothings ! How very judgemental and dismissive of any alternative view of Catholicism from your own - you would have us set in intellectual concrete and wrap us in a dogmatic straight-jacket ! Luckily I have my anarchist priest to say mass on Sundays and reassure me that the church is far more inclusive than many think ! Long may it continue to be so.
 
Peccavi said:
So whoever dissents from the Catholic Consevative line is to be dismissed as a) laity b) from Europe c) big nothings ! How very judgemental and dismissive of any alternative view of Catholicism from your own - you would have us set in intellectual concrete and wrap us in a dogmatic straight-jacket ! Luckily I have my anarchist priest to say mass on Sundays and reassure me that the church is far more inclusive than many think ! Long may it continue to be so.
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It’s not a bad thing to be a Protestant. But don’t deny who you are. There is no such thing as a “Conservative” Catholic line. There is only a CATHOLIC line. You can find it by reading what the magisterium has to say. You are not required to follow it, but if you don’t you are no longer Catholic. The world has lots of Protestants in it, they are often good and gracious people who are saved by Christs work. But they, and you, aren’t Catholic.
 
Kscrawler said:
It’s not a bad thing to be a Protestant. But don’t deny who you are. There is no such thing as a “Conservative” Catholic line. There is only a CATHOLIC line. You can find it by reading what the magisterium has to say. You are not required to follow it, but if you don’t you are no longer Catholic. The world has lots of Protestants in it, they are often good and gracious people who are saved by Christs work. But they, and you, aren’t Catholic.
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👍 👍
 
Peccavi said:
So whoever dissents from the Catholic Consevative line is to be dismissed as a) laity b) from Europe c) big nothings ! How very judgemental and dismissive of any alternative view of Catholicism from your own - you would have us set in intellectual concrete and wrap us in a dogmatic straight-jacket ! Luckily I have my anarchist priest to say mass on Sundays and reassure me that the church is far more inclusive than many think ! Long may it continue to be so.
Click to expand...
Just for fun I went to the web site of this group, tried to find every page on it and did a search for the word “Jesus”. Never found it even one time.

When you say that the church is inclusive you are of course right. Who is that that the church excludes. I can think of no one. All are sinners, and all are asked to “go and sin no more” so who is being excluded?
 
Kscrawler
You and I are in agreement - we are all sinners. The Church functions to save sinners not to shut them out. The great difference between the followers of Jesus and the followers of Epictatus, the Stoic (whom I greatly admire) is that Jesus preached the possibility of redemption.
What I find impossible to accept is the narrow puritanism of those who brand alternative ideas from their own on what it means to be a Catholic as ‘protestants’. When the Pope decides Hans Kung is no longer a priest, or others like Kung, then I will reconsider my place. For the moment, however, like my parish priest (who goes to prison for his active pacifism) I will remain where I am welcomed by my local fellow Catholics. Only the Pope can exclude - not you guys - you can only express your opinion not talk in absolutes !
 
Peccavi said:
Kscrawler
You and I are in agreement - we are all sinners. The Church functions to save sinners not to shut them out. The great difference between the followers of Jesus and the followers of Epictatus, the Stoic (whom I greatly admire) is that Jesus preached the possibility of redemption.
What I find impossible to accept is the narrow puritanism of those who brand alternative ideas from their own on what it means to be a Catholic as ‘protestants’. When the Pope decides Hans Kung is no longer a priest, or others like Kung, then I will reconsider my place. For the moment, however, like my parish priest (who goes to prison for his active pacifism) I will remain where I am welcomed by my local fellow Catholics. Only the Pope can exclude - not you guys - you can only express your opinion not talk in absolutes !
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Ok, well the fact that Kung has been stripped of abilities to teach as a Catholic theologian for almost 30 years, should give you an inkling of where both this and the previous Pope felt about his theology. I’m sure that if the Pope stripped him of his priesthood you would change your postion to say, “until the Pope excommunicates Kung…”.

You have in your mind what you want the Catholic Church to be. Surely even you can recognize that your position is not shared by the magisterium of the Church and is in direct conflict with three of the last 4 Popes, (we don’t really know how JPI felt on many issues).

I have no doubt that you can find other Christians, who no doubt mean well, who want the Catholic Church to be different. When those folks, and you, directly disagree with the magisterium, and choose not believe the magisterium, and who live their lives acting directly in defiance of the teaching of the magisterium, well if that isn’t the definition of a Protestant I don’t know what is.
 
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