State's 'hate crimes' code used against 'pure speech'

[SILVERNAME]

Civil rights advocate warns federal plan ‘still lurking in shadows’ in U.S. Senate

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Posted: September 12, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Bob Unruh
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

While California hate-crimes laws are being used to target “pure speech,” a federal plan that would impose similar speech restrictions on Christians “is still lurking in the shadows” in the U.S. Senate, warns a team of civil rights advocates.

The warning comes from the Pacific Justice Institute, which is running an online petition campaign to alert people to the dangers the pending legislation poses.

As WND reported, the federal plan, H.R. 1592, was approved by the U.S. House of Representatives, but when it reached the U.S. Senate, instead of holding hearings and a vote, senators tried to attach it to another bill as an amendment. The maneuver would have prevented any public (name removed by moderator)ut on the plan.

wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57583

The petition is here:
pacificjustice.org/getinvolved/petition/

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

The First Amendment does not protect against hate speech. The Supreme Court has ruled on that.

Why all the unnecessary vitriol towards these groups?

 

[Transformer]

The First Amendment does not protect against hate speech. The Supreme Court has ruled on that.

Why all the unnecessary vitriol towards these groups?

Madison, Wis. David Ott, a former homosexual, was arrested for a “hate crime” for sharing his testimony with a homosexual at a gas station. He faced a $10,000 fine and one year behind bars. Seven thousand dollars in legal fees later, [he] was ordered to attend re-education classes at the University of Wisconsin conducted by a lesbian.

St. Petersburg, Fla. Five Christians including two pastors were arrested at a homosexual rally for stepping onto the public sidewalk instead staying caged in their officially designated “free speech zone.”

Elmira, N.Y. The Elmira police arrested seven Christians for praying in a public park where a homosexual festival was getting started.

Crystal Lake, Ill. Two 16 year old girls are facing felony “hate crime” charges for the content of their flyers.

Philadelphia, Pa. Arlene Elshinnawy, a 75-year-old grandmother of three, and Linda Beckman, a 70-year-old grandmother of 10 (along with nine others), were arrested for sharing their faith on the public sidewalk.

Because, if the World Net Daily article is honest, the laws in question are not being used merely to oppose hate speech, but free speech that has nothing to do with hate.

 

[Elric]

Madison, Wis. David Ott, a former homosexual, was arrested for a “hate crime” for sharing his testimony with a homosexual at a gas station. He faced a $10,000 fine and one year behind bars. Seven thousand dollars in legal fees later, [he] was ordered to attend re-education classes at the University of Wisconsin conducted by a lesbian.

St. Petersburg, Fla. Five Christians including two pastors were arrested at a homosexual rally for stepping onto the public sidewalk instead staying caged in their officially designated “free speech zone.”

Elmira, N.Y. The Elmira police arrested seven Christians for praying in a public park where a homosexual festival was getting started.

Crystal Lake, Ill. Two 16 year old girls are facing felony “hate crime” charges for the content of their flyers.

Philadelphia, Pa. Arlene Elshinnawy, a 75-year-old grandmother of three, and Linda Beckman, a 70-year-old grandmother of 10 (along with nine others), were arrested for sharing their faith on the public sidewalk.

Do you have more information on these?

They hardly seem complete.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Do you have more information on these?

They hardly seem complete.

Internet searches and the time spent there is time well spent. Google it.

 

[Elric]

Internet searches and the time spent there is time well spent. Google it.

Thanks for that enlightening tip, I dont really need look it up because its pretty obvious what happened.

 

[Bennie_P]

Thanks for that enlightening tip, I dont really need look it up because its pretty obvious what happened.

These were cases where people have been arrested, but the cases were either dropped or charges reduced. The arrest had nothing to do with violent behavorial, but freeedom of speech.Yet the arrest were made because of others claiming that their speech was “hate” speech, just because it differed from their accusers own views.

 

[Sweeney]

You folks ought to contact Phelps Chartered Law Firm to represent this matter!

From what I’m reading here, this “Pure speech” sounds the same as what the Phelps’ do every day with their Westboro Baptist Church group.

 

[Benedictus]

Because, if the World Net Daily article is honest, the laws in question are not being used merely to oppose hate speech, but free speech that has nothing to do with hate.

And none of these cases has anything to do with H.R. 1592. The Bill in question only affects cases where actual bodily iinjury was inflicted upon someone because of religion, national origin, sexual orientation, etc.

 

[Bennie_P]

And none of these cases has anything to do with H.R. 1592. The Bill in question only affects cases where actual bodily iinjury was inflicted upon someone because of religion, national origin, sexual orientation, etc.

I think the biggest objection to HR 1592 is the fact it makes sexual orientation a protected class, thus opening doors that should be left closed. And besides there are enough laws to address violent crimes. Hate Crime Laws do exist around the country and actually have lesser penalties them the acually violent crimes committed, so thier effectness is questionable to begin with.

Here is a current case in WV that is being debated about if it should be considered a hate crime or not. Note the penalties.

Kidnapping carries a possible life sentence in West Virginia. Sexual assault is a crime punishable by up to 35 years in prison. West Virginia’s hate crime statute carries a penalty of up to 10 years.
Bobby Brewster, 24, and his mother, Frankie Brewster, 49, are charged with kidnapping and sexual assault, among other counts.
Danny J. Combs, 20, of Harts, is charged with sexual assault and malicious wounding; Karen Burton, 46, of Chapmanville, is charged with malicious wounding, battery and assault during the commission of a felony; and Burton’s daughter, Alisha Burton, 23, and George A. Messer, 27, both of Chapmanville, are charged with assault during the commission of a felony and battery.

Read the story, do you really think it matter to this crazies that committted the crimes mentioned, that adding an addition penalty would of stopped thier madness?

HR 1592 is a stealth law to open doors for other types of legislation concerning sexual orientation and the continued effort to normalize the “gay” lifestyle.

 

[KathleenElsie]

You folks ought to contact Phelps Chartered Law Firm to represent this matter!

From what I’m reading here, this “Pure speech” sounds the same as what the Phelps’ do every day with their Westboro Baptist Church group.

Except that it is your right to say what you did, I personally consider what you said as a form of “hate speech”. You have the right to day it but it seems that you don’t think other have the same right.

I have family that has attended funeral services that were disrupted by hateful persons. I pray for them and cover your child’s ears when going past them. We then explain to the child that what is said is wrong but it is their right in a FREE country to say what they did. Same think last year at the Shanksville Memorial on 911 we had to cover the children’s ears and then told them why.

So get over it. You don’t prosecute for speech. You prosecute for actions.

 

[rpp]

Thanks for that enlightening tip, I dont really need look it up because its pretty obvious what happened.

Oh? And what was that?

 

[rpp]

Thanks for that enlightening tip, I dont really need look it up because its pretty obvious what happened.

Oh? And what might that be?

Here are some links to the reference cases in the order in which they were described.

citizenlink.org/CLNews/A000005315.cfm
worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56461
worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56433
lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jul/07071001.html
Crystal Lake girls charged with felony (very long link.)
wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54125

Sadly, with only one exception, the regular news meda did not cover these incidents.

 

[Elric]

Oh? And what might that be?

Here are some links to the reference cases in the order in which they were described.

citizenlink.org/CLNews/A000005315.cfm
worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56461
worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56433
lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jul/07071001.html
Crystal Lake girls charged with felony (very long link.)
wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54125

Sadly, with only one exception, the regular news meda did not cover these incidents.

Thanks for those links, it would have been nice if other media reported on these situations. But it did confirm what I thought.

Let me just state (again) that I respect the Cathloic belief that homosexuality is a sin and that I do not agree with people who deliberately flaunt homosexuality on cathloics or force their opposed opinion on them. As I have said, you wouldnt go to a Jewish function with a leg of ham or a muslim function with a six pack.

But these people in question were trouble makers who seemed to think that they were above other people and were not showing respect for other people.

The guy at the gas station: Its pretty clear that the person he was “sharing his testimony” with wasnt interested in the “sharing” going on. Instead of respecting the person, he continued to share (how many times was he asked to stop?) until it got to the point where the police were called.

The St Petersburg rally: They were asked to keep their protest in specified areas, a major reason being because of what happened the year before, they chose to ignore this as well as requests by police to remain in their areas. They chose not to respect the cities wishes or the polices wishes.

The park festival: These people were asked/told beforehand not to go to the park and do what they intended to do and they were trying to disrupt the festival (laying down in front of the stage). If they wanted to pray for these people, they could have done that anywhere else. They chose not to respect the police or the attendants of the festival.

The girls with the flyers: The content of the flyers really speaks for itself.

The grandmothers: Exactly what were they “sharing”?

There isnt much information on this one, but they must have been doing something to be arrested. I am suprised that the link provided didnt go into more detail about what they were sharing.

These examples didnt breech anybodies right to free speech, but they do show a lack of respect for other people.

 

[Sweeney]

Except that it is your right to say what you did, I personally consider what you said as a form of “hate speech”. You have the right to day it but it seems that you don’t think other have the same right.

I have family that has attended funeral services that were disrupted by hateful persons. I pray for them and cover your child’s ears when going past them. We then explain to the child that what is said is wrong but it is their right in a FREE country to say what they did. Same think last year at the Shanksville Memorial on 911 we had to cover the children’s ears and then told them why.

So get over it. You don’t prosecute for speech. You prosecute for actions.

Did you read my post? Your response doesn’t make sense

 

[rpp]

Thanks for those links, it would have been nice if other media reported on these situations. But it did confirm what I thought.

Let me just state (again) that I respect the Cathloic belief that homosexuality is a sin and that I do not agree with people who deliberately flaunt homosexuality on cathloics or force their opposed opinion on them. As I have said, you wouldnt go to a Jewish function with a leg of ham or a muslim function with a six pack.

But these people in question were trouble makers who seemed to think that they were above other people and were not showing respect for other people.

The guy at the gas station: Its pretty clear that the person he was “sharing his testimony” with wasnt interested in the “sharing” going on. Instead of respecting the person, he continued to share (how many times was he asked to stop?) until it got to the point where the police were called.

The St Petersburg rally: They were asked to keep their protest in specified areas, a major reason being because of what happened the year before, they chose to ignore this as well as requests by police to remain in their areas. They chose not to respect the cities wishes or the polices wishes.

The park festival: These people were asked/told beforehand not to go to the park and do what they intended to do and they were trying to disrupt the festival (laying down in front of the stage). If they wanted to pray for these people, they could have done that anywhere else. They chose not to respect the police or the attendants of the festival.

The girls with the flyers: The content of the flyers really speaks for itself.

The grandmothers: Exactly what were they “sharing”?

There isnt much information on this one, but they must have been doing something to be arrested. I am suprised that the link provided didnt go into more detail about what they were sharing.

These examples didnt breech anybodies right to free speech, but they do show a lack of respect for other people.

But does any of this rise to the level of felony offenses, as many have been charged with.

When is it a crime to have a heated discussion with someone?

And why is it that the opposing protesters cannot have sign larger that “their torso” when the others can?

Why can’t some people express their opinions?

And if the boys the girls were complaining about were not gay and engaging in a sick act caught on file, woulkd they be facing felony hate crime charges? If a boy was kissing another girl and the girls did this, would they have been arrested?

Clear the answer is that those who engage in homosexual activity,. especially those who do it “in your face” are protected while those who find it offensive are prosecuted.

That is the essence of the problem. Clearly there is serious discrimination going on. To claim there is not is belied by the severity of the charges on people doing little more than expressing themselves and the the lack not mainstream media coverage of the prosecutions.

 

[Elric]

But does any of this rise to the level of felony offenses, as many have been charged with.

Possibly, it really depends on the details of the incidents.

When is it a crime to have a heated discussion with someone?

A “heated discussion” has two or more concenting people involved. It does not appear that any of these fit that description.

And why is it that the opposing protesters cannot have sign larger that “their torso” when the others can?

They could, if they chose to stay where they were allowed to protest.

Why can’t some people express their opinions?

I dont know where you get that idea from, people are certainly allowed to express their opinions. In these examples they seemed to have gone beyond simply expressing an opinion.

And if the boys the girls were complaining about were not gay and engaging in a sick act caught on file, woulkd they be facing felony hate crime charges? If a boy was kissing another girl and the girls did this, would they have been arrested?

Your talking about the two girls with their flyers?

There was more on the flyer than simply a picture.

Clear the answer is that those who engage in homosexual activity,. especially those who do it “in your face” are protected while those who find it offensive are prosecuted.

I dont know where you get that idea from, I really dont.

In these examples it was the “christian” people who chose to believe that they were above the law and other people. None of these people were innocent in the slightest and were trouble makers.

That is the essence of the problem. Clearly there is serious discrimination going on. To claim there is not is belied by the severity of the charges on people doing little more than expressing themselves and the the lack not mainstream media coverage of the prosecutions.

They went a little beyond simply “expressing themselves” and in some cases were trying to be a disruption. In these instances I cant see where they were discriminated against.

Imagine if some gay people came into your church and stood in front of the altar and started to kiss each other while you were trying to have a service. That would be outrageous for a start, but wwould be comparible with what these people were doing.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Did you read my post? Your response doesn’t make sense

Yes I did. Unless you were referring to another poster and did not reference that fact, you were telling those of us that believe in free speech that we need to be arrested. If you were referring to anther post I am sorry I misread you.

Look I don’t have to agree with a persons words or even remotely like those words to say they have a right to speak them.

 

[Bennie_P]

They went a little beyond simply “expressing themselves” and in some cases were trying to be a disruption. In these instances I cant see where they were discriminated against.

Imagine if some gay people came into your church and stood in front of the altar and started to kiss each other while you were trying to have a service. That would be outrageous for a start, but wwould be comparible with what these people were doing.

Myself, I don’t have to image it…

In 1989, gay “AIDS activists” invaded a Roman Catholic mass at New York City’s St. Patrick’s Cathedral, shouting obscenities and defiling Communion elements. (The spat the Eucharist onto the floor, among other things) A few participants in this blatant desecration incurred slight legal penalties.
On Saturday, November 16, 1991, "A group of AIDS demonstrators dressed in suits and ties infiltrated the Family Concerns Conference brunch Saturday at First Baptist Church of Atlanta, then peppered the diners with hundreds of condoms while chanting `Safer sex saves lives.’ The demonstrators were removed by church security guards and police. Outside, 90 placard-waving protesters marched in front of the church at Peachtree and Fifth streets, chanting and waving at automobiles as drivers honked and waved.

The Chrsitians arrested were in open public areas -

 

[Elric]

Myself, I don’t have to image it…

The Chrsitians arrested were in open public areas -

So to your mind, that excuses/justifies what they did?

There is no way what so ever that I could condone the agitators in the incidents that you highlighted, they are completly in the wrong.

But so were the “christians” in the other articles, regardless of the area.