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Feanaro_s_Wife
Guest
Well I’m glad you have first hand experience of great child care providers. It is great to hear they they exist! Thanks.
Malia
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Malia
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Feanaro_s_Wife
Guest
I would like the mothers who hire a nanny or daycare provider to know some of the things I have observed while enjoying the day at the park with my own children:…
drlaura.com/letters/index.html?mode=view&tile=1&id=10423
drlaura.com/letters/index.html?mode=view&tile=1&id=10423
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Celia
Guest
Feanaro's Wife:
Yes well the letter makes sense. People should take the time to find quality providers for their kids, obviously. (I’m a big fan of the “family” day care my MIL runs. Very home-y, without being their own home.) If the need arises for day care it is up to the parents to find quality, safe care, not a ditzy teenager. If parents are dropping off their children at day care because they don’t care about them enough to stay home with them, not because of financial or other pressing need, I dare say they might be recieving more attention and care from the day care providers. What kind of a mother would leave their child in day care for no other reason than they “didn’t want to be bothered”? Blech. That’s *their *problem, not the day care’s.
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Feanaro_s_Wife
Guest
I just thought it was relevant to the original topic because we were comparing parenting to working out of the home.
There are parents who MUST work outside of the home. They would give anything to be able to stay home.
The ones who think their careers are more important than their own children are the ones who need to read these types of threads.
Tell your mom-in-law a big thank you for actually caring for children who need her! She is doing a great service to those kids.
Malia
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BLB_Oregon
Guest
It doesn’t sound as if you believe this is a matter for discernment. You sound as if you think that working moms are selling out, some because they have to and some because they want to, but it sounds as if you are convinced that they are necessarily selling out. I could be wrong, but that is how you sound. It is difficult to struggle against such strong feelings, I know, when the call you hear for yourself is so unmistakable. Having found the best for yourself, it is natural to want to share that. But might you look at this another way?
A vocation is a call from God, from the heart of God directly to the soul. We are not called to be cookie-cutter saints, all following the same road.
Men live longer if they are married, did you know that? Priests have all sorts of problems in greater numbers than married men. Would a statistic like that mean that priests should marry, that celibacy is a bad thing? By no means… and no matter how many
other religions allow their ministers to marry or think that only married men are fit for leadership positions, I doubt if I could change your mind on that. In any case, you couldn’t change mine. A life that is harder is not necessarily worse, or less holy. If we heard a statistic like that about priests, we’d wonder: what can we do, to lift this burden from our priests? We would not start hinting around that we should immediately give up the whole venture of a celibate priesthood.
If our sisters hear a different call than we do, we ought to do our best to help them bear their loads. Do some work for selfish reasons? Undoubtedly so. There are very few human ventures not taken by at least a few for selfish reasons, and don’t fool yourself into thinking staying out of the workforce with small children isn’t one of them.
Because we heard a different call doesn’t mean that their vocation isn’t real, that they are less as daughters or wives or mothers than we are. I know their parents and husbands and children… I promise you that it’s true. They do need all the help they can get, starting with our willingness to try to believe that they do their best to listen to the call of God. That is not a lot to ask.
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Celia
Guest
Absolutely, Malia I agree. You have some great points. Oh, and yeah I tell her all the time what a great job she does, she just shrugs it off like it’s nothing. The woman has the patience of a saint! I lucked out with her as a mother in law for sure. 
Anyway, off to bed with me :yawn: …
Anyway, off to bed with me :yawn: …
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mumto5
Guest
My mother went to work when I was 12 (I’m the eldest). Until then, she stayed home. I know she went to work out of necessity rather than choice, but the effects were still felt. It was fine for the first year when she worked part time and was there after school and when we were sick. Then she started studying. Then she started to work from 2-5.30, which became to 8pm and left just after we were up in the morning. She got wrapped up in her career. I felt abandoned. I don’t know how it affected my sister, as she didn’t talk about it, but she did go out and look for affection and attention in the beds of boys from the age of 13 and experimented with mild drugs and alcohol. Other than that,she watched TV from the time she got home to the time she went to bed. It was a lonely time.
I have decided, no matter what, to be there for my own children. Even teenagers appreciate having someone there at the end of the day to ask how the day was. Having experienced both ways of living, I have no desire for my children to experience the same.
That said, I will admit I am suited to being with my children and have always enjoyed babies and children. I know for some women it wouldn’t work and I’ve seen plenty of women who can’t handle being a fulltime caregiver and putting their own desires second. So I know it’s not for everyone and I am glad that we have a choice. I don’t have a problem with other women choosing to work, it’s just not something I want. I only have a problem with it when women go out to work because they have to financially and the choice isn’t there. (And yes, it’s just as valid an option for father’s to stay home, I just use mother terminology here since I am one). It’s sad that we live in a world that makes it necessary to leave our children for survival sometimes.
I have decided, no matter what, to be there for my own children. Even teenagers appreciate having someone there at the end of the day to ask how the day was. Having experienced both ways of living, I have no desire for my children to experience the same.
That said, I will admit I am suited to being with my children and have always enjoyed babies and children. I know for some women it wouldn’t work and I’ve seen plenty of women who can’t handle being a fulltime caregiver and putting their own desires second. So I know it’s not for everyone and I am glad that we have a choice. I don’t have a problem with other women choosing to work, it’s just not something I want. I only have a problem with it when women go out to work because they have to financially and the choice isn’t there. (And yes, it’s just as valid an option for father’s to stay home, I just use mother terminology here since I am one). It’s sad that we live in a world that makes it necessary to leave our children for survival sometimes.
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KCT
Guest
Mothering is my vocation and I’m happy with it. We now have 3 teens and I may work p/t after we move.
Twice in the past 5 years, dh took time off work (a week each time) so I could go away. Both times he practically skipped off to work when I got back. He liked it OK but admitted he would not want to do it full time.
It works for us. —KCT
Twice in the past 5 years, dh took time off work (a week each time) so I could go away. Both times he practically skipped off to work when I got back. He liked it OK but admitted he would not want to do it full time.
It works for us. —KCT
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_Jenn
Guest
If I took the time to quote everything I had to comment on, I’d be here all day. LOL And I just don’t have that kind of time.
However, as a wife/mother/woman w/ a job, it is possible to have the best of both worlds. I’ve got it - my child is in a daycare environment - from 1-6pm…and he loves it! It is through him being there that we have learned that he is a very social child who thrives on that sort of environment. Are they raising him? Absolutely not. It is my dh and I who raise him, instill the morals in him we want, etc. If he comes home and tells us something another child did and/or said that is inappropriate, then we use it as a teachable moment.
Working moms are not evil. Daycares are not evil. Motherhood is not a job, it is a role in life that you choose when you opened yourself up to the idea of having children. I cringe everytime I see it put that being a sahm is the “hardest job in the world”. I did it for 22 months - it wasn’t a job, it wasn’t the hardest thing I’ve ever done. And I am still at home each and every morning with my child, so I still have that sah experience each and every day. Just not all day. It works for my family.
It’s also been my experience that the women who are constantly saying how hard their “job” is as a sahm, get little to no help from their husband’s around the house. Our opinion (mine & dh’s) is this - we bought the house together, we are both 100% responsible for maintaining it. Having a child didn’t mean all of a sudden the house became only mine. We conceived our child together, we are both 100% responsible for parenting him. Nobody would feel that my dh is less of a parent for working 8 hours a day, so why should mothers be considered less of a parent for working?
However, as a wife/mother/woman w/ a job, it is possible to have the best of both worlds. I’ve got it - my child is in a daycare environment - from 1-6pm…and he loves it! It is through him being there that we have learned that he is a very social child who thrives on that sort of environment. Are they raising him? Absolutely not. It is my dh and I who raise him, instill the morals in him we want, etc. If he comes home and tells us something another child did and/or said that is inappropriate, then we use it as a teachable moment.
Working moms are not evil. Daycares are not evil. Motherhood is not a job, it is a role in life that you choose when you opened yourself up to the idea of having children. I cringe everytime I see it put that being a sahm is the “hardest job in the world”. I did it for 22 months - it wasn’t a job, it wasn’t the hardest thing I’ve ever done. And I am still at home each and every morning with my child, so I still have that sah experience each and every day. Just not all day. It works for my family.
It’s also been my experience that the women who are constantly saying how hard their “job” is as a sahm, get little to no help from their husband’s around the house. Our opinion (mine & dh’s) is this - we bought the house together, we are both 100% responsible for maintaining it. Having a child didn’t mean all of a sudden the house became only mine. We conceived our child together, we are both 100% responsible for parenting him. Nobody would feel that my dh is less of a parent for working 8 hours a day, so why should mothers be considered less of a parent for working?
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vluvski
Guest
No, you’re right. You’re not going to change my mind. I do believe they’re selling out, in most cases. I feel called to marriage because I truly desire to serve my husband and be at home with my children (all future here). I beleive I could be a great engineer, climb the corporate ladder, and be a wonderful manager or even CEO. However, that is not my calling even though I will be sad to leave it behind.
A woman may feel a strong calling to have a career. If this is her vocation, then she needs to take a good long look at whether she is also being called to marriage and children. Why get married if you aren’t interested in serving your husband and children? Licit marital relations? Assurance of never being alone? This is they type of discernment I’m talking about.
I said it once and I’ll say it again. As a woman, I feel I have a moral obligation to take care of my children once they come along. I remain very skeptical that God’s desire for a family is to have the children dropped off at day care just because both mom and dad want to maintain their careers.
I wholeheartedly believe in true feminism. I value the differences between males and females, and women are just better suited to be the parent at home. Most obvious reason? Men don’t have mammary glands. Chemically, emotionally, mentally, hormonally, psycologically, physiologically- it’s just what we were wired to do.
That doesn’t necessarily mean no woman should ever have a job, or that women should be barred from having the same pay at a “man’s job.” It also doesn’t mean the husband should be expected to laze around the house when he gets home because he already put in his share by working 40+ hours per week.
I can tell you right now that I am an atrocious housekeeper. But for the 40+ hours my husband will spend at work, that will be my job, among other things.
And I will love every minute of it.
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carol_marie
Guest
~Jenn~:
First let me say that it sounds like you & your husband have figured out a very good balance for your family and you both sound like very devoted parents who are not doubt doing an excellent job raising your child.
I do have a comment about your quote though…
Being a SAHM IS the “hardest job” and let me tell you why I think so. In the other thread (the poll about working women vs. SAHM) you admited that a few months after your son turned one, you began to get very depressed. It was then that you decided that you needed to get back out there & go back to work. So you went back to your old job (part time) and put your son in daycare and now you are much happier (and as a result your family is better off… true) OK… so you say it isn’t the “hardest job” but yet you weren’t able to pull it off.
The hard part about being a SAHM isn’t doing the dishes or cleaning the house or even taking care of an adorable one year old. It’s the day in, day out same old thing… generally without much adult stimulation - no pay and not alot of grattitude. No getting dressed up for this job… no going out into the “real world.” It’s monotonous and it can get lonely. The trick is to figure out how to BE a SAHM and be happy… how to take care of others and find joy doing so. To find fufillment in the everyday business of the same old thing with the knowledge that you are making a difference in your child’s life by giving them the very best - yourself. So much easier said than done, and your own experience clearly illustrates that… which is why it IS the most difficult job.
And you are right… working Moms and daycare are not evil. :nope:
It sounds like you made the best decision for yourself and your family.
God Bless,
CM
Jen,
First let me say that it sounds like you & your husband have figured out a very good balance for your family and you both sound like very devoted parents who are not doubt doing an excellent job raising your child.
I do have a comment about your quote though…
Being a SAHM IS the “hardest job” and let me tell you why I think so. In the other thread (the poll about working women vs. SAHM) you admited that a few months after your son turned one, you began to get very depressed. It was then that you decided that you needed to get back out there & go back to work. So you went back to your old job (part time) and put your son in daycare and now you are much happier (and as a result your family is better off… true) OK… so you say it isn’t the “hardest job” but yet you weren’t able to pull it off.
The hard part about being a SAHM isn’t doing the dishes or cleaning the house or even taking care of an adorable one year old. It’s the day in, day out same old thing… generally without much adult stimulation - no pay and not alot of grattitude. No getting dressed up for this job… no going out into the “real world.” It’s monotonous and it can get lonely. The trick is to figure out how to BE a SAHM and be happy… how to take care of others and find joy doing so. To find fufillment in the everyday business of the same old thing with the knowledge that you are making a difference in your child’s life by giving them the very best - yourself. So much easier said than done, and your own experience clearly illustrates that… which is why it IS the most difficult job.
And you are right… working Moms and daycare are not evil. :nope:
It sounds like you made the best decision for yourself and your family.
God Bless,
CM
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kage_ar
Guest
Feanaro's Wife:
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I work, DH is a SAHD - in fact, the 4 houses on our block (the other side of the street is indeveloped), one man is retired and the other 3 are have SAHDs. It is really not that rare or odd or strange or scary
Preach it sister! (I’m feeling my evangelical roots today
)I work, DH is a SAHD - in fact, the 4 houses on our block (the other side of the street is indeveloped), one man is retired and the other 3 are have SAHDs. It is really not that rare or odd or strange or scary
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vluvski
Guest
Beautiful, Carol Marie!
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_Jenn
Guest
carol marie:
Being a SAHM IS the “hardest job” and let me tell you why I think so. In the other thread (the poll about working women vs. SAHM) you admited that a few months after your son turned one, you began to get very depressed. It was then that you decided that you needed to get back out there & go back to work. So you went back to your old job (part time) and put your son in daycare and now you are much happier (and as a result your family is better off… true) OK… so you say it isn’t the “hardest job” but yet you weren’t able to pull it off.
It’s not about being able to “pull it off”. It’s about what a person truly desires to do - and I, in the end, did not truly desire to sah full time. It had nothing to do with it being hard. It was about being true to myself. So roll your eyes all you want, but I will still maintain that it isn’t hard, it wasn’t hard for me, it just wasn’t something that I felt strongly called to do full time. Nothing to do with hard or easy.
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Michelle_in_KC
Guest
Thank you for this post. It made my day.
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Michelle_in_KC
Guest
That’s awesome. My DH actually found a SAHD play group in the metro area where we live. There are lots of SAHD’s who do a great job with the kids. I’m not saying the SAHD thing is for everyone, but it has worked well for our family and we know other families for whom it has worked well, too.I work, DH is a SAHD - in fact, the 4 houses on our block (the other side of the street is indeveloped), one man is retired and the other 3 are have SAHDs. It is really not that rare or odd or strange or scary
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Michelle_in_KC
Guest
carol marie:
Honestly, I would bet there ARE some SAHM’s out there who aren’t as devoted as others and perhaps that TV is on a little more during the day than it should be. Or there’s a woman out there like that lady in Texas a few years ago who drowned all her kids in the bath tub. She was a SAHM, you know.
NO, I’m not saying that we should point to that as an only example. Just like we shouldn’t point to those who follow a career even after children are born only out of selfishness when there is often a component of need involved.
But, to get on your high horse and act like someone who stopped being a SAHM did so because it was so hard, or they couldn’t hack it, is just completely uncharitable. We are all called to do the work of the Lord in different ways.
I’m a huge supporter of SAHMs. My husband has been a SAHD (we now work opposite shifts so there is still a parent at home at all times with the children). I have a sister who is a SAHM, I have friends that are SAHMs, I wish I could be a SAHM, but I’ve discerned in the end that that wasn’t part of God’s plan for our family…at least not at this time.
And for anyone to insinuate that I shouldn’t have married my husband and should not have had my children…well, I’ll just say that makes me pretty angry. God has a purpose for EVERY child brought into this world and into every family. To actually try to suggest that God didn’t really have a plan for my children because I feel the need to continue to work…ugh, it just makes me sad and a little hurt that there are people that think that.
It’s pretty uncharitable to say someone can’t “pull it (being SAHM) off” just because they didn’t love it the way you do.Jen,
I do have a comment about your quote though…
Being a SAHM IS the “hardest job” and let me tell you why I think so. In the other thread (the poll about working women vs. SAHM) you admited that a few months after your son turned one, you began to get very depressed. It was then that you decided that you needed to get back out there & go back to work. So you went back to your old job (part time) and put your son in daycare and now you are much happier (and as a result your family is better off… true) OK… so you say it isn’t the “hardest job” but yet you weren’t able to pull it off.
Honestly, I would bet there ARE some SAHM’s out there who aren’t as devoted as others and perhaps that TV is on a little more during the day than it should be. Or there’s a woman out there like that lady in Texas a few years ago who drowned all her kids in the bath tub. She was a SAHM, you know.
NO, I’m not saying that we should point to that as an only example. Just like we shouldn’t point to those who follow a career even after children are born only out of selfishness when there is often a component of need involved.
But, to get on your high horse and act like someone who stopped being a SAHM did so because it was so hard, or they couldn’t hack it, is just completely uncharitable. We are all called to do the work of the Lord in different ways.
I’m a huge supporter of SAHMs. My husband has been a SAHD (we now work opposite shifts so there is still a parent at home at all times with the children). I have a sister who is a SAHM, I have friends that are SAHMs, I wish I could be a SAHM, but I’ve discerned in the end that that wasn’t part of God’s plan for our family…at least not at this time.
And for anyone to insinuate that I shouldn’t have married my husband and should not have had my children…well, I’ll just say that makes me pretty angry. God has a purpose for EVERY child brought into this world and into every family. To actually try to suggest that God didn’t really have a plan for my children because I feel the need to continue to work…ugh, it just makes me sad and a little hurt that there are people that think that.
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carol_marie
Guest
Michelle in KC:
And regarding the Lord’s vocation for everyone… if He gives you children, I believe you are called to raise them. NOT dump them off on someone else so you can pursue your own “happiness” elsewhere. If, as a Mother, you don’t want to do that… then wonderful if you have a husband who is willing to stay at home and take care of them.
Children who are cared for by a loving parent are much better off then children who are raised in daycare. Oh… unless of course your name is Andrea Yates as you so kindly pointed out.
Please reread my post. I am NOT on any high horse… nor was I criticizing Jenn or any other working MOM’s decision to go to work - if someone is so miserable at home they aren’t going to do a very good job of caring for their child. I was merely pointing out that Jenn really can’t say that being a SAHM wasn’t difficult since she only DID it for 22 months and then quit when she got depressed being at home. It would be the equivalent of me saying, “I don’t think it’s so difficult being married… I did it for 22 months.” Right.
And regarding the Lord’s vocation for everyone… if He gives you children, I believe you are called to raise them. NOT dump them off on someone else so you can pursue your own “happiness” elsewhere. If, as a Mother, you don’t want to do that… then wonderful if you have a husband who is willing to stay at home and take care of them.
Children who are cared for by a loving parent are much better off then children who are raised in daycare. Oh… unless of course your name is Andrea Yates as you so kindly pointed out.
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Rob_s_Wife
Guest
Just some quick thoughts in response here b/c time is short…
**I hate those comments and that is the #1 response I hear. Especially when said in front of their kids. What does that say about those parents? What does that say about those kids? It’s a horrible and sad way to feel and speak about ones own children.:crying: **
ETA: This is not directed just to women either - it applies just as equally to men. Work is something that should financially support the family - not be used to escape it.
Well, yes - that’s why women get pregnant and men don’t. Men are wired for fatherhood though and that is just a nurturing and loving as a mother’s love and care - although it may be given in a different manner. It isn’t Mr. Mom - it’s dad. And daddy’s can take just as great a care with their babies as a mom.
For me, the most telling statement I hear from working moms is: "I couldn’t stay home with my kids. I’d go nuts having to deal with them all day!"
**I hate those comments and that is the #1 response I hear. Especially when said in front of their kids. What does that say about those parents? What does that say about those kids? It’s a horrible and sad way to feel and speak about ones own children.:crying: **
ETA: This is not directed just to women either - it applies just as equally to men. Work is something that should financially support the family - not be used to escape it.
M
Michelle_in_KC
Guest
Rob’s Wife said:
Fully agree here. HOwever, I don’t hear this at all. I hear mostly how the working moms I know and myself included, wish their lives might have been different but are doing the best with what they’ve got. Maybe it’s just my circle of friends, though.
I would give my right arm to stay home with my kids. However, forcing them into a life of poverty (and spare me the whole, “cut this, cut that”… we DID that and we’d have still been financially unable to live on DH’s salary) is not my idea of giving them the best care.
I think I’m just very grateful that my husband’s job is one he works in the evenings and weekends and we always have a parent with the children. None of my children have ever been to day care. The oldest started preschool at age 3.
But, I will NEVER again say ALL moms “should” do this or “have to” do that to be good moms because that attitude is what led me to devalue my contribution to my family over the past four years. It’s amazing how condescending those who stay at home can be to those who don’t. And, it’s really weird, outside of that attitude, they can be the most nice and humble people in the world. Perhaps it’s the whole parenting thing…if everyone doesn’t do it the way we do…they are wrong.
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