S
st_ignatius110
Guest
It is also interesting to note that the mother of Saint Therese of Liseux had her own business that she ran and had 12 children!
- Status
J
jenmom
Guest
12 children? I thought there were the 5 girls and one that died…
I find it interesting that the 2 women sited both died of cancer though…
And I thought Saint Gianna was canonized because of the sacrifice she made in carrying her last child? Of course, her life was examined to make sure there was nothing contrary to church teaching but I also dont’ know of a church teaching that requires mothers not to work…
random musings…
+JMJ+
jen in pa
I find it interesting that the 2 women sited both died of cancer though…
And I thought Saint Gianna was canonized because of the sacrifice she made in carrying her last child? Of course, her life was examined to make sure there was nothing contrary to church teaching but I also dont’ know of a church teaching that requires mothers not to work…
random musings…
+JMJ+
jen in pa
S
SeekerJen
Guest
Well, obviously her sacrifice of her own life for that of her fourth child was why she was beatified in the first place. She is considered a patroness of mothers, but also of physicians.
I don’t know of any teaching that either requires mothers to work or to not work. Nor was I suggesting that there was anything in Gianna’s life that was contrary to Church doctrine. I was simply curious after reading this thread how we could reconcile her life with current Catholic opinion on moms working outside the home vs. within it.
And my very devout Catholic SAH grandmother, mother to 7, died of cancer at age 53.
J
jenmom
Guest
I certainly did not mean to imply that only moms working outside the home die of cancer…perhaps I should explain that I have been reading a great deal lately about health and nutrition and life style choices and the interaction between those and other factors…so I realize it is a product of my own viewpoint/state of mind that the connection occured to meSomeone earlier mentioned feminism and how secular women have been fighting to get a piece of men’s pie so to speak and have gotten all the health problems that go with it…I simply find it interesting as a philosphical/health topic that the 2 women many of us are familiar with as examples of working mother saints both died of cancer…lends anecdotal evidence to the info I have been reading of late…
As for reconciling Saint Gianna’s life with Catholic teaching, I don’t think we have to…I personally am only peripherally aware of her story so I know little about her life and would not to presume I know the circumstances which led her to work outside the home she may have had very good reasons and perhaps dh was avaiable for the children (although I bet it wasn’t very popular then either!
) On a side note, my own ob/gyn is a mother of 7 - might be 8 now - and ehr dh stays home adn homeschoolsw the children so she can work (a work which is very needed in these parts - a good prolife Catholic ob!!)Blessings,
+JMJ+
jen in pa
M
MooCowSteph
Guest
You said it bluntly and I agree. :tiphat:
M
migurl
Guest
These people are saints or raised a saint! They are very blessed people. I am not saying that it is sinful to do it to provide for your family, I said it could be sinful if you do it because you want to or b/c society says its normal. The intent is the key. God saw these women’s souls and knew why they did what they did. THAT is the real difference.
C
cheeto1
Guest
The idea has never before crossed my mind that a mom could
pray for the will of God and He would say that she should send
her children to be cared for by others. I am thinking of a mom
named Hannah who had one son and sent him to be cared for
by others from about age 4. He didn’t turn out half bad. God
even spoke to him with a voice. He grew to be the great prophet
Samuel. You have given me something to think about. Of
course, most people seem to be sending them to daycare and
not to the great priest Eli. But Eli was doing a bad job with his
own boys.
K
kaymart
Guest
Instead of fighting over what is best, lets hold our heads up that we are doing what is right for our families. 
If a stay at home Mom is happy at home and loves being a fulltime wife and mother that is her decsion, no one should push her out to work because that what society wants. One the other side of the issue, a mother feels better about herself working, yet does the best for her family when she is home, should not be made to feel guilty and made to stay home. I personally prefer to be a SAHM but I will not put down my fellow sister if she chooses to work, provided she doesn’t forget she has a family. It’s time to all women to come together, stop tearing each other down and embrace their role of Motherhood as they see fit.:yup:
If a stay at home Mom is happy at home and loves being a fulltime wife and mother that is her decsion, no one should push her out to work because that what society wants. One the other side of the issue, a mother feels better about herself working, yet does the best for her family when she is home, should not be made to feel guilty and made to stay home. I personally prefer to be a SAHM but I will not put down my fellow sister if she chooses to work, provided she doesn’t forget she has a family. It’s time to all women to come together, stop tearing each other down and embrace their role of Motherhood as they see fit.:yup:
S
SeekerJen
Guest
Instead of fighting over what is best, lets hold our heads up that we are doing what is right for our families.
P
piercina
Guest
I agree with you totally. Some people say that if a family needs two parents to work then that should be ok but why does anyone need both parents working? Many two income families have a big gorgeous house, two or three fancy cars, a boat, motorcycle, four wheeler, snowmobile, cabin etc. etc. etc. LOWER YOUR WANTS PEOPLE!!! I don’t know anyone who dies and says “gee I’m sure glad we had so much stuff” but there are plenty who die and say “I wish I’d have spent more time with my family”.
H
Heather07
Guest
Hi everyone, I just thought I would add my 2 cents. My bf’s mother (who is a fulltime stay at home mom/housewife) is constantly trying to convince me that when I get married my life would be more fullfilling if I pursued my career in interior design, which I am currently going to school for, rather than being a housewife/homemaker/sahm. She has told me all of her woes and negative experiences being a sahm and how no one appreciates her, and she never gets any thank yous, and everything just always seems expected of her, and how being a housewife is a very looked-down-upon job. She tells me that she wishes she could turn back the clock and pursue her career after she was married instead of staying at home and taking care of her children. She isn’t very happy right now and seems to have a lot of regrets and its hard for me to understand why she feels that way because I see everything that she does for her family and she is wonderful at it, and I look up to her and hope I can do things like that for my family too. I try to tell her that I know I am still pretty young, but I don’t ever feel like my life would be fullfilled if I chose my career over my children (once I have them) because at this moment in time, I desire nothing more out of life than to get married, have children, and be there for them and take care of them. She thinks I don’t know what I am talking about or what I am getting myself into, as if having feelings like that were absolutely crazy. Just because she didn’t feel fullfilled by choosing to stay at home, doesn’t mean that I will feel the same way in the future. I feel there is no greater calling in life than to take care of your family and I can’t wait to have one of my own someday. College and my bachelor’s degree is just something I can have to fall back on later on in life if something happens where I absolutely have to work to survive. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy interior design and know I would be great at it, and I plan on using the knowledge about it that I aquire in school and apply it to my own home, but I feel I would be even better at raising children. Its just what I feel like God is calling me to do.
K
kaymart
Guest
Heather, she needs a hug, she is feeling the “SAHM’s blues” we all get them, we feel no matter what we do someone wants more. Do what you feel is right, Being a SAHM is the most rewarding thing you can do. It will pass and the next time you see her might feel a lot different. If she is around my age (49) we came of age with the Supermom of the late 70’s and 80’s. Many of us were treated like total idiots, because we are wasting our lives. So I see where she’s coming from.
C
carol_marie
Guest
Heather,
I think you should do what God is calling YOU to do. It sounds as if you will be a wonderful wife & mother someday and your family will be blessed by your devotion to them!
I’m sorry to hear that your BF’s mother regrets her time spent at home. Maybe it’s just a phase she’s going through right now? Sort of a mid-life crisis type thing? Are her children grown & leaving the “nest?” I know that can be a difficult adjustment period.
I think interior design is a wonderful pursuit. Couldn’t you do that on the side part time once all of your children are in school? Remind your mother & law of that. Besides, even if you never work outside the home… YOUR home will be the envy of all your friends! Blessings to you! CM
I think you should do what God is calling YOU to do. It sounds as if you will be a wonderful wife & mother someday and your family will be blessed by your devotion to them!
I’m sorry to hear that your BF’s mother regrets her time spent at home. Maybe it’s just a phase she’s going through right now? Sort of a mid-life crisis type thing? Are her children grown & leaving the “nest?” I know that can be a difficult adjustment period.
I think interior design is a wonderful pursuit. Couldn’t you do that on the side part time once all of your children are in school? Remind your mother & law of that. Besides, even if you never work outside the home… YOUR home will be the envy of all your friends!
Blessings to you! CM
H
Heather07
Guest
Yeah, shes in her mid to late 40s and has been criticized alot about certain things and feels very unappreciated…sometimes I am not sure what to say to her because I haven’t really had any experience yet. I try my best to respect her position on the matter because everyone has different experiences and she is just trying to help. She has some issues with a couple of ppl in her family who haven’t treated her with the best respect, and my bf and his brother, are very selfish and demanding and hardly have to do anything for themselves because she does it all. My bf is 19 and he doesn’t even have to do his own laundry or even fold it for that matter, and sometimes it annoys me to see that he could easily help her out by doing his own stuff, but chooses to be lazy and keep letting her do it. I had to do my own laundry, dishes, clean my room, clean the house, and bathrooms in my early teens and seeing how he doesn’t have to do anything sometimes gets me really steamed. When I visit them, I am the only one in that house who really helps her out with anything so she really likes it when I come over.
H
Heather07
Guest
carol marie:
Yes, I have definitley considered doing it on the side once my kids are in school and stuff…I don’t want to give it up totally, just while my kids are growing up and once they are old enough to take care of themselves, I may plan on doing it fulltime because it is alot of fun. I don’t want to work in a corporate firm or anything like that, I want to try and start my own residential design business so I can work on an as-needed basis and not have to worry about a demanding boss or anything like that. Just whenever a client needs me, I will be there! It would be mostly for fun more than the money. I am still considering those options. We’ll see where the Lord takes me.Heather,
I think you should do what God is calling YOU to do. It sounds as if you will be a wonderful wife & mother someday and your family will be blessed by your devotion to them!
I’m sorry to hear that your BF’s mother regrets her time spent at home. Maybe it’s just a phase she’s going through right now? Sort of a mid-life crisis type thing? Are her children grown & leaving the “nest?” I know that can be a difficult adjustment period.
I think interior design is a wonderful pursuit. Couldn’t you do that on the side part time once all of your children are in school? Remind your mother & law of that. Besides, even if you never work outside the home… YOUR home will be the envy of all your friends!
B
BLB_Oregon
Guest
I had not even thought of this. We have to be listening to know what God wants, and not judge only by what we see.
This is my experience. My boys had to be put into pre-school three half-days a week at around age three, because they are hearing-impaired and speech-delayed. I didn’t want to part with them, but I had to admit that they needed help that I was not qualified to give.
The truth is that although I had wonderful parents, I learned a great deal about parenting from my children’s teachers. They have each dealt with hundreds of children, both with and without the kinds of deficits my children have. I am not speaking strictly about their speech delay. I also mean that I have learned about ways of dealing with children that are more effective than what I knew to do, ways to combine discipline with kindness that I did not learn from my own experience in childhood.
Anyone who thinks that an outside caregiver has nothing to add to a mother’s ability to care for her own children has to be very careful not to fall into arrogance. None of us know all there is to know about parenting. None of us see ourselves as others see us. Even when not necessary for financial reasons, outside help can be beneficial to our ability to parent.
Also, although it is rightly said that we must be willing to sacrifice for our children, what is best for our children has no necessary connection to what is hardest or easiest for us or even what makes us wealthy or poor. Those things should be kept secondary, that is the main thing. Furthermore, we are not guaranteed that our efforts as parents will be successful, no matter what we do. Parenting is about listening to God, about being faithful to the call we hear, about being honest with ourselves concerning what we hear… whether we are fathers or mothers, employers or employees. In following God, there are many children who are not under our authority, but no children who are none of our business.
J
jman507
Guest
Just as it is right to say that, it is also just as wrong to say that a parent must give their child to a caregiver or else the child will be miseducated. Of course we are not granted that our parenting will be successful, that does not mean that schools are any better off. A child can just as well pick up any number of bad habits at a school too. If there is a certain skill that the parent needs help with, the parent could always call in a tutor. The parent can always put a child in some sctivites with other children too. A parent might be able to make a more meaningful field trip than one can with a school.
To me there is a problem with just dropping the kid off at school and never discerning about their education.
K
kaymart
Guest
I am a stay at home mom, but I too had to part with my baby at 3 when early intervention ended and special ed. pre-school began, I would be a liar if I said I could have done it all by myself. All the wonderful physical, occupational, speech therapist, special P.E, art and music teachers, classroom teachers and now at 17, his"life coach" and most especially the teacher aides who took over the “mommy” stuff (they did everything from feed him to diaper him until age 11 and still attend to his “personal” needs) while he attends school made it possible for me to raise my son at home and not “lock” him away as they done years ago. and you are right, Oregon, It takes a stronger person to admit they needs help then to say I’ll do it myself.
B
BLB_Oregon
Guest
This is the analogy I would make on the whole thing:
Parenting small children full-time is like being a daily communicant. It is ideal, among the highest of ideals… but:
But let’s face it, none of us are perfect and none of us can read hearts. Most of us would be most at peace if we kept our peace. In any case, though, we can’t go wrong by praying for the rest, whether we agree or not.
How’s that?
Parenting small children full-time is like being a daily communicant. It is ideal, among the highest of ideals… but:
- Some people can’t do it. They can still become saints. Sometimes, in fact, giving up what is otherwise ideal is necessary for them to follow God’s call… that is, to become the saint God asks them to be, regardless of the judgements of others. They do need to to live their devotion in other ways on a daily basis, however, in whatever ways that they can.
- Some people who don’t do it fail to do it because they don’t appreciate the value of it, and that is a shame. Not being able to do it makes the overall journey harder, and that shouldn’t be ignored. It is worth the effort, even under less-than-ideal circumstances–not just for yourself, but for the good of the whole Church.
- Just showing up, though, is not of the value that some think it is. It has value, but not a fraction of the value of the ideal in which there is full participation and self-sacrifice. Having said that… when showing up is all one can manage, for today that may have to do. Some days, a pathetic effort is the best you have to offer. Offer it, anyway, and be back tomorrow. Just don’t let yourself get comfortable with putting less than your best on the altar.
- Those who are fortunate enough to do it even some of the time need to be very careful that they do not fall into spiritual pride. The better the thing is that you’re doing, the worse the sin that spiritual pride can pull out of it.
- Those who are fortunate enough to do it also need to be very careful not to give the ideal a bad name in how they do it and whether they live its graces.
- Those who can and those who can’t need not be at emnity with each other or feel jealous or threatened by each other. They would do best to support, encourage, challenge, and pray for each other. That is the point of being the Body of Christ. As Steven Covey says, “The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.”
- There is a level of obligation below which one objectively falls into sin. Avoid that at all costs. Honor your regular solemn obligation without fail, unless illness, the well-being of others, or other circumstance literally prevents you from doing it.
But let’s face it, none of us are perfect and none of us can read hearts. Most of us would be most at peace if we kept our peace. In any case, though, we can’t go wrong by praying for the rest, whether we agree or not.How’s that?
V
vluvski
Guest
How’s that, you ask?
Stellar, I say!
Stellar, I say!
- Status