Stay Catholic or change religions?

[jlengle00]

jlengle,

I agree with CARV. I have noticed that the forum is now way off-topic and has not addressed your concerns for some time. I suggest that you, a trial member, leave and not come back. You are the second new member in as many days who has asked a specific question and gotten burned by the answers.

You have a fine marriage, husband and children. Don’t disturb any of this. Seek out your own answers as some of us have suggested and move on.

I totally agree! I believe I received some very sincere answers on here and some that I should probably just ignore. I’m going back to the Catholic Church on Sunday. I will let everything in God’s hands now.

 

[guanophore]

Lacking something is always the comeback with many CAF Catholics when someone doesn't agree.

This is an astute observation… Often people are just lacking the fullness of the Apostolic teachings, but sometimes, they are just lacking humility, teachability, and obedience. Anyway you look at it, it is always humans that are falling short, not God.

I give God a great more credit than that. I have faith He can forgive without having to do it with a priest. Christ taught forgiveness anyways so the priest shouldn’t be retaining anything in the first place.

I marvel at the hubris in this statement. You are asserting that you, 2000 years after the fact, understand Jesus’ teaching better than those who He trained personally day in and day out for 3 years, then promised to lead into all Truth. Who do you think you are, to tell the Aposltes what they should and should not do?

Jesus showed them how to discern when a person was truly repentant, or just going through the motions. He gave them the gift of seeing duplicity and hypocrisy. He demonstrated this as accounted in the book of Acts with Ananias and Sapphira. This is an example when sins were retained.

This authority was given to prevent one of the most common calumnies today, where it is said that Catholics believe they can commit whatever sins they want, then go to confession, get the consequences wiped, and start over. A person who does not have authentic contrition has their sins retained. Fr. Corapi has some very good examples of how this has happened to him. I recommend his talks with you CMatt, because the more I read your posts, the more it becomes clear that you have been drawn away from the Catholic faith into Protestant theology.

 

[guanophore]

I never said any of those things? Those quotes are not mine. My husband? I am a male, you may quoted a different user. These are not my posts..

Ok, sorry for misdirected answer to the post.

It was directed to the OP.

In 1 John, the author distinguishes between two types of sin (1 John 5:16-17). According to a Roman Catholic commentary on the Bible, however, these verses do not refer precisely to venial and mortal sins.One class of sin leads to the loss of eternal life, but eternal life can be regained if a fellow Christian prays that the sinner be forgiven. The other class of sin leads to death, and the Christian is not instructed to pray that a fellow Christian be forgiven for such a sin. Since either class of sin puts one’s eternal life in jeopardy, both would fall in the category of mortal sin

This is exactly what the Catholic Church teaches. Mortal = death (eternal). Venial is a Latin word that the Latin Rite uses to refer to those sins that are not mortal. I hope you can see that the principle is biblical, no matter what language is used to describe it.

Jn. was written in Greek, and the church in Rome later adoped Latin as the official language of their Church.

On another hand. I cant believe what I read on this board. Being a Catholic, my Mother and Father, and family in general never sounded like this. I wasn’t raised with such a narrow minded perception.

A lot of us were raised in a poorly catechized situation, with cafeteria attitudes, and progressive parents.

 I just don't believe that people of other Christian denominations are practicing the wrong faith.

And the Catholic Church does not teach that they are.

 I understand in the Bible Jesus states that "And I tell you that you are Peter,and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it". It says nothing about it being a Catholic Church. Church to me is any place people come together to worship Jesus Christ.

If this is all that Church is for you, then you are suffering with a deficient concept of the Church. This is very common among our separated brethren, who have become disconnected from the Church founded by Christ.

guanophore I am not suffering from a deficient understanding of anything.

Wow. This will make it very hard for you to learn anything.

What brings you here?

 

[guanophore]

If that is the case…then I probably have a spot in Hell with my name written all over it!

Well, we all do. We all are born into this world destined for perdition. If we are not rescued by the grace of God, that is where we will be!

But I don’t believe that and it’s hard to understand why the die hard Catholics think that every wrong doing is going to send you to Hell. Seriously…how long ago was the Bible written?

Not everything we do wrong is a mortal sin. However, the nature of sin has not changed. sin separates us from God,and the consequence of sin is eternal death. Certainly , there are modern ways to sin that were not available when the Bible was wirtten, but sin are sins, ancient or modern. The idea that things that used to be sins are no longer sins is just a lie from the Father of Lies.

Yeah…maybe things about contraception and whatnot are in the bible, but times have changed…situations have changed. I’m sure God understands that.

God’s eternal principles have not changed. His guidelines for mankind were created for us when we were designed. Modern chemistry has not changed our nature at all, or our relationship with our creator.

 YES....I was on birth control....but I can't afford to have a ton of kids. It isn't like back in the day when women stayed home to raise kids while the men worked. Both parents need to work to pretty much survive these days and all the necessities for children these days gets very expensive. Both my children were blessings from God. My husband had cancer and he was told he would never be able to have children. Plus I was on birth control when we had our first child. So what does that tell you?

It tells me that you have not been able to entrust your marriage and your sexual life into God’s hands. If it is any consolation, the majority of American Catholics are suffering this same lack of faith.

Obviously God is not punishing us for having sex before we got married…he provided us with a miracle.

God has created sexual intercourse to be fruitful. The misuse of his gift does not change how he created it. the idea that God blesses us for committing sins of this kind is one of the fruits of this current culture of death.

 There are a lot of things that happened in my life that made me think I would never be accepted back into the Catholic Church and it wasn't anything that I should be ashamed of. (Like sex before marriage, having a child out of wedlock, living with my husband before we got married)..things like that./'quote]

There is some truth in what you say. If you don’t accept the things that God says are sins as sins, then you really don’t belong in the Church He founded. The other posters have better advice in such a case. It is more appropriate for you to find a community founded by men who agree with your way of looking at things. To be Catholic means that you are willing to accept God’s point of view on issues such as what is sin.
jlengle00;6792573:

Those things are frowned upon by the Catholic Church. But I don’t see that being wrong…we have been together for 10 years…we’re happily married…have 2 beautiful children.

The fact that you are not sinning now is good. It does not mean what you did in the past is not a sin, or that it is not problematic to your eternal life. What is of the greatest concern here is that you seem to be unwilling to accept God’s commandments on these points. This is a dangerous position with eternal consequences.

 

[guanophore]

So if the church would have the nerve to tell my children we’re going to hell because I used contraception and my husband chooses not to go to church…then I guess it’ll be time to find a new chuch.

No, the children will not be held responsible for your sins. You and your husband will. Your children were destined for hell at birth because we are all born into original sin, which is spiritually fatal.

As far as the church having “nerve”, Jesus committed His commandments to the Church, and charged them with keeping and teaching them. It is the duty of the Church to define and describe sin,and show people how to be delivered from it. If you refuse to accept what comes from Christ, then yes, you should find a new church that better suits your own ideas of right and wrong. There are plenty from which you can choose!

Church should be enjoyable for everyone not frightening!

This is also a lie from the Father of Lies. Church is only enjoyable for those who are in a right relationship with God. For those who are not, Church will be like the experience of Ananias and Sapphira (see the book of Acts).

I want my children to enjoy the teachings of God.....not be frightened by them saying that if you do this....this is going to happen to you.

It seems that you want your children to be exposed to a religion designed by mankind that appeals to their fallen tendencies. This is certainly not uncommon. If this is true, you will not be comfortable in the Catholic Church, since the CC is charged with teaching the Truth she has received from God. In fact, human beings should be frightened of sin, as it has the power to eternally separate us from God, and there are definitely also consequences in this life. No one who tolerates sin is going to “enjoy the teachings of God” because God has no tolerance for sin.

So I guess for now…I could consider myself a partial cafeteria Catholic because I don’t fully agree with everything.

Definitely you are not catholic in your faith. It sounds like you have a modern humanist type of faith.

It is good that you came to CAF, though, because it will clarify matters for you. I will be in prayer for you and your family.

 

[jimpres]

I totally agree! I believe I received some very sincere answers on here and some that I should probably just ignore. I’m going back to the Catholic Church on Sunday. I will let everything in God’s hands now.

Great news you will be welcomed with open arms. I will pray for you.

 

[guanophore]

Maybe I am just retarded though. Which is probably what most of you think here, but I tell you this, there are many who think the same. Why do we have animosity between us? I don’t see the point in stirring up discourse. Regardless if one is Catholic, Non-Denominational, or Lutheran, etc, why be against each other? I just don’t understand all this dude…it’s discouraging to me.

God is love

No, you don’t seem intellectually deficient to me at all. You do seem very hard hearted, and I think you are right, there are many who think the same way. I have no animosity toward you, but you do seem to have a great deal of animosity toward the Catholic Church You seem to rejec the authority that Jesus gave her for the care and feeding of your soul.

If you are discouraged, it is because faithful Catholics are not at liberty to accept your self proclaimed liberty to depart from His Teachings.

Well, then I guess I am just damed to hell aren’t I? It is what it is because its ingrained in your mind.

Whether or not you are damned is between you and your Maker. That which is ingraned on our minds has no bearing upon it. What is ingrained in our minds is God’s revelation, and part of that revelation is that sin separates us from God, and we are destined for hell from the time we are born into this world, because we are born into a state of separation from Him.

I don’t think Christ puts sin into “classes”. I understand the concept of venial and mortal sin, and I know the Catholic Church references 1 John 5:16-17. But I guess I don’t have the same interpretation the same as you.

If you are willing to study His teachings, you will find that indeed, He does put sin into classes.

Your personal interpretation to the contrary will not affect anyone but yourself. Sin is how God defines it, whether you accept that definition or not. I will give you this warning,though. Anyone who forward’s his own interpretation of sin instead of using His is at risk of a destiny to hell.

As I said before, the only seen I see as unforgivable is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Yes I understand there are other verses Eph. 5:5, 1 Cor. 6:9, etc. But if you just ask for forgiveness, accept Christ and live by his word, would he really deny you? I think not.

Accepting Christ and living by His word would mean going to confession, so no, He will not deny you.

Regardless if you confess to Christ that you made a “venial” or “mortal” sin, he will still forgive you. It makes no actually reference that you have to go to a priest. I am sorry I am not an old school Catholic like you and believe everything the Churches laws and doctrines tell me.

I am sorry too. It is sad when a person rejects the Teaching of Jesus that has been infallibly preserved in the Church by His HS.

I know Christ, and I accept his death and resurrection, and he is my redeemer. Is that a problem? Do you honestly believe people who don’t practice our faith are condemned to hell?

IT is a problem to reject what God has revealed to mankind, and substitute one’s own ideas for that revelation.

the Church does not each that those who do not practice Catholicism are condemned to hell. The Church does not teach that anyone is condemned to hell.

I am confused why you refer to Catholicism as “our faith” when it is clear that you do not embrace Catholic faith. Why call yourself something that does not describe you?

Do you think Christ will reject those who accept him but are of a different denomination? Protestant or Catholic, its the same Christ and the same God we worship.

No, it is not the same. We do worship the same God, but every Protestant denomination has rejected part of the Apostolic faith.

 

[alitaptap]

Thanks James…its nice to know someone who was in a similar situation. I doubt my husband will come with me to church as he is very anti-Catholic and that sometimes tends to put me in a tough situation. He is however very supportive of me and my decision to go back to the Church. I’m thinking that sticking with the Catholic Church will probably be the best decision for me at this point. That is where my family is at and if I choose to go elsewhere, that could take a lot of time and research. There are several methodist and luthern churches and one episcopal. So not only would I have to research their teachings, I’ll have to find the right church too. I really don’t want to be a Church hopper and I’m not one for change. I feel like being Catholic is who I am and where I should be despite the differences between my husband and I and our views on being Catholic.
Everyone on here has been so helpful and I thank you all for the variety of responses. Some of you are probably right…maybe I just don’t understand it enough. Hopefully when I go back I will slowly begin to get the answers I need. I know God is here helping me through this tough journey…he didn’t let me give up yet!
Don’t worry…I will get my kids Baptized! I really hate myself for not doing it sooner…my mother is having a tough time knowing they aren’t baptized.

James is right. God’s plan is bigger than your mistakes.

 

[guanophore]

Perhaps God is still speaking as we uncover more and more of His truths. Even the CC has changed disciplines or practices over the yrs. Peace.

God does continue speaking in every generation. However, there was a once for all Deposit of Faith to the Church, and those doctrines are immutable (dont change). changes in disciplines and practices are not changes in doctrine. You seem to be trying to justify rejection of Apostolic doctrines by saying they are an evolution of understanding, and this is not correct.

Because if the Eucharist is Jesus, why wouldn’t I? The CC acts like Jesus is only for those sinners with venial sins. A mortal sin as defined by the CC? Nope. Sorry. Sinner, you can pray “Lord I am not worthy but only say the word and I shall be healed” all you want before the Eucharist. Be healed and called. But no Jesus still will turn you away and won’t allow you to receive Him.

Jesus came to free us from all sins, mortal and venial. The person who receives communiion in a state of mortal sin eats and drinks condemnation upon himself. Jesus does not turn Him away, we have turned our backs upon Him in the act of sinning, and again by trying to justify ourselves when in that state.

Hi dude,

oh I really like you.
Finally I found a Catholic here who doesn’t think that the Catholic Church is the only way to heaven.

Just a heads up, Esdra, CMatt is not expressing Catholic faith, and though he calls himself a Catholic on here, he has embraced Protestant theology. I just want to be clear, since you seem to think otherwise.

Also, the catholic church DOES NOT TEACH that it is the “only way to heaven”. This is a lie, or a misunderstanding, and I would appreciate it if you would do the courtesy of not spreading it around here. It is offensive.

:clapping:

CMatt, I just want to tell you that calling yourself a Catholic, while applauding someone who professed to have rejected part of the teaching of Christ, is a very serious problem. It is even more of a problem when you do it here at CAF, because it causes a public scandal to the Church.

It publicly misrepresents the teachings of the church, and causes a stumbling block to those who have come here to find Catholic Answers.

No Lapey, I don’t tell God how He dispences His mercy onto others. But thank you for your discourse on how my soul can be killed according to your beliefs. God bless.

No ones soul is killed on the basis of another’s individual beliefs. Souls are killed when the Truth is rejected. If the Truth of Christ, preserved infallibly for you in the CC by the HS, is rejected by anyone, then their soul may suffer eternal consequences.

Hi

another Christian who got it.
Oh thank you Jesus that you really guide people into the truth!
Welcome in the Body of Christ, laneo.
You are not heretic, you just realized the truth like I have started to do so 8 years ago.
My next step then was leaving the Church. Have a look at a Baptist church or so. I bet you will like it. I did, because they thought/think the same as I did. I am not false, thanks god nor am I alone with my beliefe!
Sadly enough the Church, or at least some of the believers (here) didn’t get it.

Let’s pray for them.

In Christ,
Esdra

CAF is not provided for you as a venue to pull people out of Catholic faith into ecclesial communities that have rejected part of the Truth. If you look at the forum rules, it will be clear that this is not a place for you to evangelize, and encourage people to abandon the Apostolic Teaching in the way you have done here. If you want to continue that, you will have to go join one of the anti-Catholic forums, or start your own, and pay out of your own pocket to encourage apostasy. We do not support that here!

Perhaps there are several of you that would like to go into business together?

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

This is the non-Catholic thread , not the Apologetics thread , so any member of CAF can post a response to your question.

I will address this to the OP.

It sounds as if you want to be a Christian but not a Catholic. It also sounds as if you would be a very unhappy Catholic, chafing at all the rules. You have children, a husband who does not want to be a Catholic, or perhaps a member of any church, and I presume an intact marriage.

Becoming an observant Catholic could seriously endanger your marriage. You would have to stop practicing contraception, which would leave you open to unplanned pregnancies. How many children do you and your husband want to have? The only reason to do this is if you believe that the Catholic church is the only “true religion” and you can’t be a Christian or express a belief in God with any other group. It doesn’t sound to me as if you buy into any of this, mortal sin, purgatory, hell. The Catholic Church emphasizes sin a lot, defines many things as sins, therefore condemns people as sinners, and doesn’t provide much in the way of role models, if the current priest sex abuse scandal is any indication.

There are many other Christian groups, the mainstream being the Episcopalians, the Lutherans, the Presbyterians, the Methodists. I have had contact mainly with the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians. In any of these, you would receive a warm welcome, baptism for your children and lots of special youth activities for them, something lacking in many Catholic churches, a church “renewal of vows” for you and your husband, if he desires this, and lots of adult social activities as well, if you wish, also something lacing in many Catholic churches (A number of other threads have included a lot of complaints from faithful Catholics re the lack of activities in their parishes.)

In addition, the Episcopal Church practices Reconciliation, usually in the form of a private face-to-face with a priest–there are a lot of women Episcopal priests now, which might make this easier–which ends with a formal release from sin, if this is what you want. Any church can provide this, with the face-to-face probably ending in a prayer.

I think that if you were to go back to the Catholic church, you would end up being dissatisfied, would leave it again and might feel even worse.

Before you decide what to do, I think that you should consider all options.

Thanks. I think you just gave every possible reason why one SHOULD become Catholic:
Holy Mother Church has never, ever swayed to the whims of modernity.

 

[CMatt25]

Nobody is saying it’s the “only” means for all sins and imperfections. Obviously, it’s the normative means for more serious sins (ie: the sort that make your stomach queasy and keep you awake at night thinking, seriously, I did that? Man, I wish I had a do-over. We’ve all been there, I’m sure. (I’d hate to think I’m the only one … )

For the sort of things that you do by accident, or that are so small that you never remember doing them, things like saying a few prayers, making the sign of the Cross, and the penitential rite at Mass contain sufficient grace to cause the blood of Christ to wash them away. But for bigger jobs, you need more scrubbing, and more help - and for that, we have the Confessional.

Great we agree on various means! But so far not obeying my bishop by missing Mass on a Thurs Nov 1 when another bishop doesn’t decree such an edict doesn’t keep me awake at night. So I won’t worry too much about getting a deeper scrubbing for that. God bless and peace!

 

[CMatt25]

CMatt, I say this not just to you, but to all who share your aversion to the sacrament, it is difficult to know the power of God’s healing touch unless and until you experience it personally. When that happens you will have expereintial knowledge of how God uses this method to heal human shame.

God knows His creatures, and He has watched us hide from Him in our shame since the Garden of Eden. He has set up a way for us to be healed. Do not hide in the garden when He is calling!

Guan, I’ve experienced the sacrament. But I’ve never experienced the touch of His healing hands more than when I go to our Heavenly Father direct. Peace.

 

[CMatt25]

This is an astute observation… Often people are just lacking the fullness of the Apostolic teachings, but sometimes, they are just lacking humility, teachability, and obedience. Anyway you look at it, it is always humans that are falling short, not God.

I marvel at the hubris in this statement. You are asserting that you, 2000 years after the fact, understand Jesus’ teaching better than those who He trained personally day in and day out for 3 years, then promised to lead into all Truth. Who do you think you are, to tell the Aposltes what they should and should not do?

Jesus showed them how to discern when a person was truly repentant, or just going through the motions. He gave them the gift of seeing duplicity and hypocrisy. He demonstrated this as accounted in the book of Acts with Ananias and Sapphira. This is an example when sins were retained.

This authority was given to prevent one of the most common calumnies today, where it is said that Catholics believe they can commit whatever sins they want, then go to confession, get the consequences wiped, and start over. A person who does not have authentic contrition has their sins retained. Fr. Corapi has some very good examples of how this has happened to him. I recommend his talks with you CMatt, because the more I read your posts, the more it becomes clear that you have been drawn away from the Catholic faith into Protestant theology.

Guan, I’m not telling the Apostles anything. Jesus did that. And Jesus taught us to know them by their fruits. God bless you.

 

[CMatt25]

Just a heads up, Esdra, CMatt is not expressing Catholic faith, and though he calls himself a Catholic on here, he has embraced Protestant theology. I just want to be clear, since you seem to think otherwise.

Also, the catholic church DOES NOT TEACH that it is the “only way to heaven”. This is a lie, or a misunderstanding, and I would appreciate it if you would do the courtesy of not spreading it around here. It is offensive.

CMatt, I just want to tell you that calling yourself a Catholic, while applauding someone who professed to have rejected part of the teaching of Christ, is a very serious problem. It is even more of a problem when you do it here at CAF, because it causes a public scandal to the Church.

It publicly misrepresents the teachings of the church, and causes a stumbling block to those who have come here to find Catholic Answers.

:yawn: Guan, have heard it all before. You and all the others who dissent with the Church on who is Catholic should rewrite Catholic teaching on who is Catholic in the eyes of the Church. Otherwise feel free to join me in line. :coffeeread: God bless you on your journey. Peace.

 

[laneo]

No, you don’t seem intellectually deficient to me at all. You do seem very hard hearted, and I think you are right, there are many who think the same way. I have no animosity toward you, but you do seem to have a great deal of animosity toward the Catholic Church You seem to rejec the authority that Jesus gave her for the care and feeding of your soul.

If you are discouraged, it is because faithful Catholics are not at liberty to accept your self proclaimed liberty to depart from His Teachings.

Whether or not you are damned is between you and your Maker. That which is ingraned on our minds has no bearing upon it. What is ingrained in our minds is God’s revelation, and part of that revelation is that sin separates us from God, and we are destined for hell from the time we are born into this world, because we are born into a state of separation from Him.

If you are willing to study His teachings, you will find that indeed, He does put sin into classes.

Your personal interpretation to the contrary will not affect anyone but yourself. Sin is how God defines it, whether you accept that definition or not. I will give you this warning,though. Anyone who forward’s his own interpretation of sin instead of using His is at risk of a destiny to hell.

Accepting Christ and living by His word would mean going to confession, so no, He will not deny you.

I am sorry too. It is sad when a person rejects the Teaching of Jesus that has been infallibly preserved in the Church by His HS.

IT is a problem to reject what God has revealed to mankind, and substitute one’s own ideas for that revelation.

the Church does not each that those who do not practice Catholicism are condemned to hell. The Church does not teach that anyone is condemned to hell.

I am confused why you refer to Catholicism as “our faith” when it is clear that you do not embrace Catholic faith. Why call yourself something that does not describe you?

No, it is not the same. We do worship the same God, but every Protestant denomination has rejected part of the Apostolic faith.

Okay, well, I am not trying to create my own beliefs or anything. I just get the notion that all these doctrines and Laws of the church were established by MAN and HIS interpretation of what is written in the Bible. I guess I am just more liberal than most on here, which is why I don’t belong on this forum. I feel like its a cult, rather than a community.

 

[awantz]

One of the major things I don’t agree with is confession. I don’t understand why I have to confess my sins through a Priest? Why can’t I just ask God for forgivness myself through prayer? I had to do confession several times growing up and all it made me feel was uncomfortable.
Plus there are things I’ve heard that because I chose not to get married in the Catholic Church, that my marriage would not be recognized. Is that true?
Also…can my children still be baptized at ages 6 and 1?

I am with you on the confession issue. I believe it should be available, but not mandatory. I ask God for forgiveness and if I feel God/ the Holy Spirit telling me to, I will confess to my pastor/ priest, too.
As far as the marriage and kids, my husband’s sister is in the same situation. I know you can still get your kids baptized and there is a way to validate your marriage, but I don’t know what all is involved with that.

 

[Contarini]

I bet you will like it. I did, because they thought/think the same as I did.

I think that’s a warning sign. I need a Church that challenges me (though of course if its message does not resonate with what I perceive to be fundamentally true, good, and beautiful I have no reason to belief it), not one where everyone already thinks the same as I do.

I am not false, thanks god nor am I alone with my beliefe!

Indeed, modern American culture fosters such beliefs. I’m not sure why you think that necessarily recommends them

 

[guanophore]

Hi jlengle,

I am impressed what you have written here.
You are on the right track.

By what standards? Pope St. Esdra?

What you are saying is that he seems to be on the same track you are, and since you believe it is right for you, it must be right for him!

The real teachings of Christ, the Holy Bible, are not firghtening at least Jesus says: "But Jesus immediately said to them: Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid. (Mt 14:27).

This is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard. If they were not frightened, why did He tell them not to give in to their fear? Do you think He was just talking to hear the sound of His voice?

If people are not frightened of hell, it is because they have avoided looking into it.

Start reading the bible. Maybe buy a “non Catholic Bible” - there are less explanations in it (and so you are less side-tracked), because if you faithfully pray to the Lord, He will give you understanding of what you are reading. - He will lead you to the fulness of truth, as He commanded us (cf. Jn 8:37)

Esdra, it is against the forum rules here for you to actively draw people away from their Catholic faith. If you want to evangelize people into bible christians, you will have to find another venue.

By the way: I think in ALL Christian denominations /Churches having sex before the marriage (and in very conservative groups also contraception) is regarded as not so good.

"not so good’ or a sin?

However, most protestant Churches won’t tell you that you are going to hell because you have done so, when you become a member of their Church. They will just tell you that it is god’s word and that you from now on keep His commandments.

Do you think there is another place for people who disobey God’s commandments?

The Body of Christ is the community of all believers - yes even Catholics, the faithful ones, belong to it. Although they don’t want us to be part of it…; At least this is what some wrote here (indirectely)). What has happened has happened and you can’t change it anymore

Esdra, I would appreciate it if you would stop spreading these lies about the Catholic Church here. This is another one of those that comes from the Father of lies. The Catholic Church teaches that we are all brothers and sisters, since we are baptized into Christ, who is the Head of the Body. I hope that you can change this behavior, whether you stay on CAF, or not…

The great thing with the protestant Churches is that you are not told to come to hell because of every *** you do. If you make bull***, you can go to god and you can be sure that He will forgive you when you tell him and really want to repent.

I am glad they have at least retained this much of the Catholic faith.

And if the burden is too high you can go to a any of your brothers and sisters of Christ and you may feel better.

I don’t think you will find this principle in the scriptures. Although repenting from sin usually does make someone feel better, that is not the goal.

(² guanophore: and yes, this is what we “Reborns” also teach! )

Are you making an assumption that I am not reborn?

 

[guanophore]

You are misunderstanding what I am saying or just afraid that I am correct. The point I am attempting to make (which should seem obvious to any Catholic) is that certain liturgical reforms were based on protestant practices in order to gain more people (protestants) into the Catholic Church. There are some who take this very seriously, and not just for granted. I gave you a link that states it plainly. I do not want to get off of the topic, which was whether or not the original poster should stay in the Church or not. However, the current state that the Church is in, is not altogether conducive to gaining converts left and right. I am stating a personal opinion, not a general consensus. I am sorry if you are offended at the statement. I think you are intelligent enough to research what you must. It is not a question of what is, but what appears to be. It is my personal observation. When I say “clean house” perhaps I should have just said “a little light dusting” and avoided confusion. I don’t want to go off topic.

This is way off topic in this thread. You were right, there were not errors or Protestantism taught in Vat. 2. No reforms of Catholic liturgy are “based on protestant practices”. This is absurd. The church updates liturgical practices based upon the needs of the faithful, not those who depart from the faith!

I will grant you that the “spirit of Vatican two” did produce a lot of problems and liturgical abuse, but this is because THEY DID NOT FOLLOW the instructions. This can be clearly seen when practices are compared to the original documents. We probabaly need to open another thread on this.

 

[CMatt25]

What you are saying is that he seems to be on the same track you are, and since you believe it is right for you, it must be right for him!

That can be said for all of us at times. We’re discussing beliefs though.