Stay Catholic or change religions?

[guanophore]

I only write what I found out for myself

You are to be commended for your spiritual search, Esdra. But, you are not only writing what you found out for yourself. You are giving others here advice on how to leave the Catholic Church. This is a clear violation of the forum rules.

 

[guanophore]

A majority of Catholics are of the cafeteria variety so you won’t be out of place. I read somewhere that 90% of them disagree with the Pope concerning contraception. The only problem will be that eventually someone (priest, catechist) is going to teach your kids that non-catholics can go to hell for being heretics, contraception is sinful, and priestly confession is required for every single serious sin a person commits. What do you plan to tell your kids? That your Church teaches falsehoods? What will you say when they ask why you still go?

I am not trying to convince you to stay away from the Catholic Church but I am 29 and my wife and I have a 9 month old and we are 14 weeks pregnant. We used to be Catholic but we started to have doubts about some of the CC’s teachings. We felt that raising ours kids Catholic, when we really didn’t believe in Catholic doctrine, we be poisionous to them and eventually they would not have any faith in Christ at all.

You are right, hypocrisy is a serious poison. It shows a lot of integrity that you were not willing to say you believed when you did not. There are some people on this thread who don’t have this level of integrity, and call themselves Catholic when they reject the Teachings of the Church. This is disingenuous.

It needs to be all, or nothing. If the OP is not willing to embrace the whole faith, then it is better not to pretend.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Me, too.

I’m also looking for a city that has no traffic laws - for me, only, of course. Everyone else needs to stay off the sidewalks and stop at red lights, but I should be allowed to do whatever I want, because, hey, I’m in a hurry. And, I’m special.

lol…

 

[jmcrae]

Great we agree on various means! But so far not obeying my bishop by missing Mass on a Thurs Nov 1 when another bishop doesn’t decree such an edict doesn’t keep me awake at night. So I won’t worry too much about getting a deeper scrubbing for that. God bless and peace!

You seem to be really hung up on being required to attend the All Saints Day Mass in your Diocese.

What is it about that particular Mass that offends you so?

 

[Steven95747]

First off, welcome and good for you on seeking the truth. Pray, pray, and pray some more. Let the Holy Spirit lead you where he will.

I just skimmed thru many of the responses and found this one I like very much. I would add one other suggestion: start listening to Catholic radio. Hopefully you have one in your area, it will be well worth the time and you will find that your objections are most likely misunderstandings about Catholicism. Encourage your husband to be open minded and remember that following the Lord is primary. He will take care of the rest!

 

[guanophore]

Well James taught in Scripture to confess our sins to one another and to pray for one another, that we may be saved.  Now yes I know the preceding verses in that chapter are used to justify our Sacrament of Anointing of the Sick.

This is another good example of one of the anti-Catholic ideas with which you have become infected by associating yourself with heretical teachings, CMatt.

The Catholic Church has no need to “justify our Sacrament” by any verses of Scripture. The sacraments were whole and entire before a word of the NT was ever written. The faithful were confessing their sins to the ones to whom Jesus gave the power to forgive or retain years before this verse was written. What we see in the NT is the reflection of the Catholic faith, not the source of it. Jesus is the Source.

 But I've already been told asking God directly to forgive our trespasses in the prayer the Lord gave us in Scripture does not constitute asking for His forgiveness.  :shrug:

While I don’t agree with that, asking Him for forgiveness does not negate the plan He set up for us to confess to those He empowered to forgive our sins. This is part of His plan to heal us.

 But believe in whatever manner of confession or asking for forgiveness that works for you.  God bless!

This is called relativism, and it is shameful coming from one who claims to be Catholic. It does not represent Catholic teaching and practice.

 

[jmcrae]

Okay, well, I am not trying to create my own beliefs or anything. I just get the notion that all these doctrines and Laws of the church were established by MAN and HIS interpretation of what is written in the Bible.

And you organize your religion around what you “feel”?

Do you also organize your work around what you “feel”? How much money do you think you would make in a day, if you never followed your boss’s instructions, but just did everything by “feel”? How would your boss react if you said to him, “I disagree with having to come in by a certain time every morning. That’s ritualistic and man-made. I’m going to sleep in today, and then if I feel moved to by the Holy Spirit, I’ll come in later.”

But if you can discipline yourself to do your work accurately and well, even though the pay cheque you receive is spent almost as soon as you receive it, how much more so should you discipline yourself for the “pay cheque” that lasts for eternity?

Look into the history of our Church, and see how everything comes from the Apostles. It was the Apostles who put together the order of the Mass, and gave us the words for all seven of the Sacraments. It was the Apostles who put everything together that makes our religion what it is today, and what it has been for two thousand years.

 

[StillWondering]

The rules of the Church are there to help us not hinder us. If they are a hinderance, then check what you are trying to do. Many of them come directly from what is divinely revelled so trust in them as much as you can. For the rules you can’t trust, talk to a priest about your personal understanding and get instruction from him.

General rule, breaking rules is bad. Breaking rules and keep breaking them is worst. Not repenting and changing your course of action just leaves you driving off the cliff. The road sign is there not to be cool but to let you know what’s up ahead. While human made road signs can be very flawed, when you investigate the source of Church laws, you will see the logic and teachings that support them and they will make more sense to you.

 

[laneo]

And you organize your religion around what you “feel”?

Do you also organize your work around what you “feel”? How much money do you think you would make in a day, if you never followed your boss’s instructions, but just did everything by “feel”? How would your boss react if you said to him, “I disagree with having to come in by a certain time every morning. That’s ritualistic and man-made. I’m going to sleep in today, and then if I feel moved to by the Holy Spirit, I’ll come in later.”

But if you can discipline yourself to do your work accurately and well, even though the pay cheque you receive is spent almost as soon as you receive it, how much more so should you discipline yourself for the “pay cheque” that lasts for eternity?

Look into the history of our Church, and see how everything comes from the Apostles. It was the Apostles who put together the order of the Mass, and gave us the words for all seven of the Sacraments. It was the Apostles who put everything together that makes our religion what it is today, and what it has been for two thousand years.

Leave me be. I understand the Apostoles and what they did.

I just get the impression from people on here that non-Catholics are denied salvation, and Catholics that dont follow all the Church sets are denied salvation.

Do you really think Christ will look at someone and say “Let’s see you accepted My birth, death and resurrection, and asked for forgiveness, but you’re protestant? Hmm, tisk tisk, sorry”. That just how people on here make it seem to be.

I really don’t belong here. It’s a very foreign environment. In my years of upbringing around the catholic church and being around Catholic people I never came in contact with anyone like how some here on the forums.

 

[guanophore]

Don’t kid yourself…that’s exactly what you seem to be trying to do. By saying that if you raised your kids Catholic that eventually they wouldn’t have any faith in Christ at all.

Seriously…if I saw a post that was “stay episcipalian or change religions” I sure won’t go on there and BLAST your faith…

I don’t think he said that. He said that he did not want to raise them disingenuously, professing or acting like he believed it, but not. It would have been a lifestyle of hypocrisy! He is basically admitting that he could not properly raise them in the faith because he did not embrace it himself. I think he should be commended for his honesty and integrity.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Yes, I know of Matthew 16:18, but Jesus makes no mention of Catholicism, Catholics, etc. Or Popes, Priests, etc.

On another note, the Bible/Jesus also makes no mention of Purgatory, petitioning of Saints, baptizing infants, confessing to a priest, etc.

As others were stating, there are many “rules” in our Church that most people don’t understand. Sure I do, but it’s all dogma to me.

Regardless, the Lord Jesus Christ will not deny anyone who accepts him. Christ loves all, and those who know him as their true redeemer and savior will enter Heaven. To say you need to be Catholic for salvation and that its the “one true” religion is far from the truth. Yes, I am Catholic, but I don’t discern that I am practicing the only one true perfect religion. Christ is the same in all denominations, we just have different “customs” as far as I am concerned.

I guess I am a heretic… . Excommunicate me now.

Which came first: the Church or the Bible?

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Leave me be. I understand the Apostoles and what they did.

I just get the impression from people on here that non-Catholics are denied salvation, and Catholics that dont follow all the Church sets are denied salvation.

Do you really think Christ will look at someone and say “Let’s see you accepted My birth, death and resurrection, and asked for forgiveness, but you’re protestant? Hmm, tisk tisk, sorry”. That just how people on here make it seem to be.

I really don’t belong here. It’s a very foreign environment. In my years of upbringing around the catholic church and being around Catholic people I never came in contact with anyone like how some here on the forums.

You understand the Apostles? How was this accomplished?

 

[jmcrae]

Leave me be. I understand the Apostoles and what they did.

I just get the impression from people on here that non-Catholics are denied salvation, and Catholics that dont follow all the Church sets are denied salvation.

It was Jesus who gave us the Church, and all of those “rules and regulations.” Somebody didn’t just come along and do that later, by surprise - all of it is from Jesus.

How can a person be said to be “following Jesus” if they aren’t following the Church that He set up?

Do you really think Christ will look at someone and say “Let’s see you accepted My birth, death and resurrection, and asked for forgiveness, but you’re protestant? Hmm, tisk tisk, sorry”. That just how people on here make it seem to be.

Even the demons know about Jesus’ birth, ministry, death and resurrection - no one is “saved” simply by believing that these things happened. We must pick up our cross and follow Him. He gave us the Church to show us how to do that.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Leave me be. I understand the Apostoles and what they did.

This is a discussion forum. Are you upset that someone disagrees with your understanding of what the Catholic Church teaches?

I just get the impression from people on here that non-Catholics are denied salvation,

That is not Catholic teaching

and Catholics that dont follow all the Church sets are denied salvation.

Disobeying GOD’S will leads to loss of Salvation. The Catholic Church is God’s Kingdom on Earth.

Do you really think Christ will look at someone and say “Let’s see you accepted My birth, death and resurrection, and asked for forgiveness, but you’re protestant? Hmm, tisk tisk, sorry”. That just how people on here make it seem to be.

Reread what Guanophore and others have written.

I really don’t belong here. It’s a very foreign environment. In my years of upbringing around the catholic church and being around Catholic people I never came in contact with anyone like how some here on the forums.

Did you think you would come here and find Catholics who don’t know their Bible, people who don’t know the Church is based on God?

 

[guanophore]

Here are some the Church says are going to hell.

CCC 846, "they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

So if everyone who once believed in the CC and who had a change in beliefs and does not remain in it, can not be saved, then they are are going to hell according to the Church.

Why would you expect Jesus to force someone to spend an eternity with Him when they already decided they reject Him?

Besides, most people who "once believed in the CC: are like yourself, and never really understood or accepted the Catholic faith. Many are poorly catechized, or have unwittingly embraced heresies. There are people who think it is not possible to know the truth.

therefore, it is possible they never HAD a “change in beliefs”, since they never embraced the Catholic Teaching in the first place.

The part about knowingly is the key here. If one knows Christ, then chooses to reject HIm, God will honor that choice. I think you are attempting to apply this to lapsed Catholics in a way that it does not.

We might not agree on what defines sin but thanks Guan

Here in lies the problem, CMATT. Whether we agree or disagree on sin is really irrelevant. It is not our place to define sin, but God’s. He has placed His revelation within the Catholic Church. That is why she is called “the pillar and ground of the Truth”. It is our duty to receive God’s instructions on how He wants us to live, not make up our own as they suit us.

I can show it but we probably don’t agree on what it means to discern the body by discerning Christ’s sacrifice on the cross for us and thus receiving worthily. God bless.

Oh, I think we would agree on that part, it is the rest of it where we would not.

Properly discerning also means that it is inappropriate to receive when you are not in unity with the Church Teachings, or are in a state of mortal sin. You don’t seem to have a problem with people receiving in these states.

Guan, if you want to use the Sacrament of Penance as your only means of washing, that’s fine. I’m not saying it is not a means. God bless!

I dont’ want you to answer this, CMatt, but what is is you LEAST wish to confess? What are you avoiding? This will give a clue as to why you are objecting.

I never said it was. Nor have I said I don’t reject some Catholicity. The Church still claims me as a Catholic though. God bless you on your faith journey.

Guan, I’m not getting into another detailed discussion right now about who the Church calls a Catholic. The Church has its definition. And while sometimes it doesn’t seem to be the case and I know many here struggle with this teaching and have difficulty accepting it. But I would guess even the most devout CAF Catholic would know what it is. Since they follow everything else. So they know I’m certain from the most devout to the cafeteria to the lapsed to the non practicing to even excommunicated Catholics, are all still Catholic in the eyes of the Church even if not in their eyes. Peace and God bless you.

No need. Persons who have excommunicated themselves by rejecting the teachings of the Church,and who further sin by encouraging others to do so are still Catholic. An excommunicated Catholic is not a claim that I can imagine you would cherish.

What eternal advantage do you think there is to being an apostasized Catholic, or an excommunicated Catholic, or a Catholic in a state of mortal sin? I hope you are not laboring under some myth that calling yourself "Catholic necessarily implies you are saved from the fires of hell.

Ok but if George doesn’t remain and can’t be saved, then except for not naming his name, they are still saying he’s goin to hell if he doesn’t repent something the Catholic Church defines as mortal sin and return. But it is precisely because they don’t know the heart, that they shouldn’t even deal with hypotheiticals in the first place and pronounce with certainty that even a generic unnamed George can’t be saved. And instead leave what unnamed George chooses and his final destination between himself and God. But that’s my belief and faith in the possibilty of God’s infinite mercy and love. So I don’t presume to know who even genericly can not be saved. Peace.

That is just it, CMATT. We cannot read the heart,a nd we only know about those in heaven which God has revealed to us. However, these are not “hypotheticals”. These are the teachings of Jesus,and He was quite clear that those who did not follow them have no part in Him. It is not “generic” but quite specific. The Church has the duty to warn those headed for the cliff, and to shepherd the faithful in the straight and narrow way. I know that is difficult for you to accept, since you believe it is not possible to know the Truth.

 

[qui_est_ce]

How can a person be said to be “following Jesus” if they aren’t following the Church that He set up?

People do the best they know how to follow Jesus. At least he’s here learning more.

Even the demons know about Jesus’ birth, ministry, death and resurrection - no one is “saved” simply by believing that these things happened. We must pick up our cross and follow Him. He gave us the Church to show us how to do that.

That’s what always confused me about about “believers” and OSAS. Judas believed, he was a follower of Christ! Once of his companions!

 

[laneo]

This is a discussion forum. Are you upset that someone disagrees with your understanding of what the Catholic Church teaches?
That is not Catholic teaching Disobeying GOD’S will leads to loss of Salvation. The Catholic Church is God’s Kingdom on Earth.
Reread what Guanophore and others have written.
Did you think you would come here and find Catholics who don’t know their Bible, people who don’t know the Church is based on God?

I just thought most were like me and others I grew up around. I guess that is not true. Either way, sorry I don’t agree with everything. Just stop wasting your time on me; I am not worth the trouble.

 

[guanophore]

I totally agree! I believe I received some very sincere answers on here and some that I should probably just ignore. I’m going back to the Catholic Church on Sunday. I will let everything in God’s hands now.

Good for you for taking responsibility for your spiritual growth, jlengle! You and your family have been added to my daily prayer list. I am glad that you are able to take some of these posts wiht a grain of salt, Sometimes you need a lot of salt around here!

Not everything is in God’s hands, though. You will still have to take up your studies and prayer life. I am glad you will be starting to do so at Mass.

 

[guanophore]

Great we agree on various means! But so far not obeying my bishop by missing Mass on a Thurs Nov 1 when another bishop doesn’t decree such an edict doesn’t keep me awake at night. So I won’t worry too much about getting a deeper scrubbing for that. God bless and peace!

The problem here is the attitude of disobedience. The mindset that you can pick and choose. All disobedience is sin.

Guan, I’ve experienced the sacrament. But I’ve never experienced the touch of His healing hands more than when I go to our Heavenly Father direct. Peace.

It is great the you have experienced this.

The prroblem I see is you perception that the sacrament is “indirect”. It indicates a lack of awareness about what “in the person of Christ” really means.

This is a good example of what I mean when I say that most Catholics who leave the faith don’t know what they are leaving. They leave BECAUSE they don’t understand the teachings of the Church. People are not condemned to hell for ignorance.

 

[CMatt25]

You seem to be really hung up on being required to attend the All Saints Day Mass in your Diocese.

What is it about that particular Mass that offends you so?

I only use that as an example.