Stay Catholic or change religions?

[CatholicFireman]

Amen, Tartini.

If you don’t know the rules, you can’t play the game.

 

[laneo]

Ianeo,
I have been following this thread, which is a good one and full of sound advice. Your posts lead me to believe that even though you have a certain amount of questions of your own which need to be addressed. When one seeks truth and finds it, there are no more questions to be asked. The Catholic Church has the answers, even if we don’t want to accept them or not. You state you are a Catholic, but anyone can be a Catholic by name and a cafeteria catholic (even the name) has always disturbed me. I understand why they are, I just question what it is they are looking for. A real Catholic practices (and agrees with) the teachings of the Church. It is not a matter of blind faith, as the Church teaches nothing that is not absolutely biblical or not pure reason and common sense.

You bring up a most delicate issue as to why, even as Christians as a whole, have differences. If you do some historical research, you will find more answers as to why this is than if you attempt to look for it in the Holy Scriptures. It gets complicated. Yet, let me stress that if one follows each and every whim that is presented to them, and lacks the conviction of their own faith, they are in great danger of following the wrong shepherd. History is full of these incidents.

It is not saying that salvation cannot be found in another denomination, but the argument should be can the fullness of Christ be found there? When ones sees this factor, the question is answered. We live in a world that craves convient and easy answers. Many will forgo all steps necessary for salvation if someone tells them it is possible. This is a great deception of the enemy, who will be more likely to use the very Blessed Name of Our Lord for his own ends. Most disagreements are due to lack of understanding what is truth and what is perceived as truth based on personal interpretation of it. There cannot be 2 truths, only one.

Here is a fact: The Catholic Church existed before the Reformation situation, therefore it must be considered as the correct teacher of truth. Other denominations have truth to offer, but not in its fullness. What makes a person accept a half-truth? Only that individual can possibly know that. Some find half-truths very acceptable, and often, if given the chance, will tailor those half-truths to fit their minds even further.

I agree that it is a sad thing that disagreements should arise in certain discussions, but this was to be expected. It is like when family members have disagreements, they do so, but really still love one another. The child believes they know better than the parent, and that is a way to view the situation between protestant and Catholic relations sometimes. Usually a lack of education is involved. One can argue until Judgement Day itself, and get nowhere. Here is where patience, charity and understanding really must show up. History is full of incidents where love seemed to be far from the picture, and is more of a situation of human nature than religion. People will fight and die for their beliefs.

If one is going to profess the truth, and really be convincing to others, first they must be well educated in both arguments. Second, they must possess a solid belief they are correct. Thirdly, they must prove what they are stating. The cardinal rule is that there is no middle ground to be considered. Ecumenical relations are still in the infant stages of even being close to working properly. The best ideal would simply be to call it Toleration, as they did in the old days. Even with toleration there were problems. That is called indifferentism and is the greatest reason the world is in a mess as it is today. The absolute remedy against all of this contention is for all protestants to become Catholic. This sounds like an absurd notion, but it is very logical. When all other Christian denominations and sects are long gone and forgotten, the Catholic Church will remain. To believe differently make Christ out to be a liar.

But everyone has an answer today. The most disastrous idea, which some claim should be tried, is to eradicate all religious doctrines altogether. I cannot even attempt to describe what chaos would ensue if that were to happen. With that in mind, one can clearly understand the need of the existence of the Catholic Church—order and discipline tends to keep errors at a minimum.

Okay, you’re right, I am wrong. I am going to hell. I have no questions…

 

[CMatt25]

anode;6791507:

Almost every Christian denomination disagrees with you.

Yes, but before 1930 all Christian denominations held that contraception was immoral. As society changed, so did they…but the Catholic Church held to the teaching claiming that it would lead to a culture which doesn’t respect life…example…abortion, euthanasia, sexual promiscuity…all of which has happened…and gets worse everyday.

Perhaps God is still speaking as we uncover more and more of His truths. Even the CC has changed disciplines or practices over the yrs. Peace.

 

[CMatt25]

This is totally out of context to what Jesus was teaching here. There is nothing in this passage and for that matter in this entire chapter that refers to private confession of sins.

Be careful going into scripture looking for verification of your personal belief. You can convince yourself of many untruths.

This is a teaching on prayer, that is all.

According to your context. God bless.

 

[CMatt25]

You missed my point, everyone is invited to come into His Church and partake in teh Eucharistic meal. If you do not intend to take the Church in it’s entirety, why would you want to recieve the Eucharist?

It is much more than a symbol. It is the source and summit of our faith, it is Jesus Himself!

What I said was that I nor you have ever heard a priest say that everyone is not welcome, to join His Church and learn the faith and then recieve the Eucharist; if you are not in communion, why would you want to recieve communion? Isn’t that like stealing? You won’t do what is asked of you but you want the rewards.

Because if the Eucharist is Jesus, why wouldn’t I? The CC acts like Jesus is only for those sinners with venial sins. A mortal sin as defined by the CC? Nope. Sorry. Sinner, you can pray “Lord I am not worthy but only say the word and I shall be healed” all you want before the Eucharist. Be healed and called. But no Jesus still will turn you away and won’t allow you to receive Him.

 

[CMatt25]

Once again you use scripture out of context to prove your side, not very convincingly I might add.

What was the “eye of the camel” that Jesus talked about here? Is it the literal eye of a needle? Is he saying all rich people are going to hell?

Obviously this is not what He is saying. But do you really believe that He didn’t mean what He said about the narrow road? Look around you, many choose the wide path, few choose the narrow road and the small gate. Can we climb over the fence to get in? He most definitely meant that the road is narrow and the gate small, we who choose it are few. That brings me comfort that the way I have been called to live my life is the right way, but most importantly we are called to lead each other down that same narrow road; or at least try.

Lapey, live your life according to the context of your beliefs. Based on your interpretations of Scripture, the CC interpretation of itself, and its interpretations. That’s fine. And it’s fine to share our various beliefs. But as someone pointed out to you, you’re not God. None of us are. I try not to tell someone they are wrong just because they believe differently. But while at times I know I certainly fail at that myself too, never have I once said, for instance, anyone faces hell because of their beliefs. As I’ve been told I do by Catholics here on CAF. And I don’t mean you personally have. I honestly don’t remember if you have or not. Peace.

 

[Church_Militant]

In 1 John, the author distinguishes between two types of sin (1 John 5:16-17). According to a Roman Catholic commentary on the Bible, however, these verses do not refer precisely to venial and mortal sins.One class of sin leads to the loss of eternal life, but eternal life can be regained if a fellow Christian prays that the sinner be forgiven. The other class of sin leads to death, and the Christian is not instructed to pray that a fellow Christian be forgiven for such a sin. Since either class of sin puts one’s eternal life in jeopardy, both would fall in the category of mortal sin

Looks right so far.

On another hand. I cant believe what I read on this board. Being a Catholic, my Mother and Father, and family in general never sounded like this. I wasn’t raised with such a narrow minded perception.

Narrow minded? You should have talked to some of the n-C Christians that I have encountered both here and in daily life. PM me and I’ll be happy to show you some examples that will make what you read here at CAF look like a warm fuzzy hug.

I just don’t believe that people of other Christian denominations are practicing the wrong faith.

Yet even in the New Testament, as well as the writings of the early church (The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans for instance), we see that spoken of quite clearly. The issue becomes one of absolute truth and departure from it. See if this article from my blog helps at all. Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

I understand in the Bible Jesus states that “And I tell you that you are Peter,and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it”. It says nothing about it being a Catholic Church. Church to me is any place people come together to worship Jesus Christ.

Yet, as the epistle if St. Ignatius (above) clearly indicates in chapter VIII that is not what the Apostle St. John handed on to him. Ignatius was discipled by John himself and this was written only a very few years after St. John passed away.

Also, consider this. If you ask someone for directions and they misdirect you, even though they assure you that they know what they are talking about, do you get where you are going? Do you appreciate the wasted time and effort that it necessitates? The same is true of the modern (remember here that almost all n-C faith communities and their doctrines are not more than 500 years old) reformers and their step children, (I call them that because many of them do not even hold to what the reformers themselves did.) of today.

guanophore I am not suffering from a deficient understanding of anything.

There was a time when I think I felt this same way. Look where it led. My Testimony.

 

[Esdra]

The Catholic faith is a faith. Other faiths are faiths. We can pretend otherwise but none are 100% absolute certain knowledge with every dotted “i” and crossed “t” for certain exactly correct. That’s not to say Truth is relative. It isn’t. There is one truth. Christ is the Truth He said. And in that case we shall know when we meet Him or He comes again. In the meantime it’s all faith and beliefs. God bless and peace.

Hi dude,

oh I really like you.
Finally I found a Catholic here who doesn’t think that the Catholic Church is the only way to heaven.
I was feeling like talking to Mormons or JWs (because they also say so!).
We are all united in Christ.
Christ is the way and the truth and ALL Christians will meet him when He comes again on the latter day!

AMEN!

What more is to say?

Thank you!

In Christ,
Esdra

 

[CMatt25]

Read the scripture and look at the teaching of the Church. It is quite simple, the way you say this you are telling God what to do. Can’t you see this?

There is only one sin that is unforgivable, are you saying that this too can be forgiven if you tell God you are sorry for it, but do not repent? BTW, repent means to change your ways. So the one unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. The reason it is unforgivable is the fact that a stony heart will not accept the teachings of the Spirit, which Christ sent to lead His Church, therefore that person has cut himself off from the Spirit.

He is not forgiven because of his choice, not God. By choosing to not go along with the teachings of Christ in His Church, you choose to not be forgiven, not God! It is God who offers you everything!!! We respond with obedient worship and praise.

There is nothing we can do that Christ did not promulgate, everything we do is in response to His love for us. To reject His teaching is to reject Him. For a Catholic of the Latin Rite, there is no forgiveness outside of confession for mortal sin. Yes forgiveness is offered by God and refused by man because it doesn’t fit man’s desire; that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

My brother, mortal sin can kill your soul if not dealt with as Jesus teaches, but it is not He who condemns or me; it is you who choose death.

As John the Baptist proclaimed, “Repent, the Kingdom of God is at hand!”

No Lapey, I don’t tell God how He dispences His mercy onto others. But thank you for your discourse on how my soul can be killed according to your beliefs. God bless.

 

[CMatt25]

I cant believe what I read on this board. Being a Catholic, my Mother and Father, and family in general never sounded like this. I wasn’t raised with such a narrow minded perception. I just don’t believe that people of other Christian denominations are practicing the wrong faith. I understand in the Bible Jesus states that “And I tell you that you are Peter,and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it”. It says nothing about it being a Catholic Church. Church to me is any place people come together to worship Jesus Christ.

guanophore I am not suffering from a deficient understanding of anything.

 

[CMatt25]

If that is the case…then I probably have a spot in Hell with my name written all over it! But I don’t believe that and it’s hard to understand why the die hard Catholics think that every wrong doing is going to send you to Hell. Seriously…how long ago was the Bible written? Yeah…maybe things about contraception and whatnot are in the bible, but times have changed…situations have changed. I’m sure God understands that. YES…I was on birth control…but I can’t afford to have a ton of kids. It isn’t like back in the day when women stayed home to raise kids while the men worked. Both parents need to work to pretty much survive these days and all the necessities for children these days gets very expensive. Both my children were blessings from God. My husband had cancer and he was told he would never be able to have children. Plus I was on birth control when we had our first child. So what does that tell you? Obviously God is not punishing us for having sex before we got married…he provided us with a miracle. There are a lot of things that happened in my life that made me think I would never be accepted back into the Catholic Church and it wasn’t anything that I should be ashamed of. (Like sex before marriage, having a child out of wedlock, living with my husband before we got married)…things like that. Those things are frowned upon by the Catholic Church. But I don’t see that being wrong…we have been together for 10 years…we’re happily married…have 2 beautiful children. So if the church would have the nerve to tell my children we’re going to hell because I used contraception and my husband chooses not to go to church…then I guess it’ll be time to find a new chuch. Church should be enjoyable for everyone not frightening! I want my children to enjoy the teachings of God…not be frightened by them saying that if you do this…this is going to happen to you. So I guess for now…I could consider myself a partial cafeteria Catholic because I don’t fully agree with everything.

:clapping:

 

[Esdra]

Yes, I know of Matthew 16:18, but Jesus makes no mention of Catholicism, Catholics, etc. Or Popes, Priests, etc.

On another note, the Bible/Jesus also makes no mention of Purgatory, petitioning of Saints, baptizing infants, confessing to a priest, etc.

As others were stating, there are many “rules” in our Church that most people don’t understand. Sure I do, but it’s all dogma to me.

**Regardless, the Lord Jesus Christ will not deny anyone who accepts him. **Christ loves all, and those who know him as their true redeemer and savior will enter Heaven. To say you need to be Catholic for salvation and that its the “one true” religion is far from the truth. Yes, I am Catholic, but I don’t discern that I am practicing the only one true perfect religion. Christ is the same in all denominations, **we just have different “customs” as far as I am concerned. **

I guess I am a heretic… . Excommunicate me now.

Hi

another Christian who got it.
Oh thank you Jesus that you really guide people into the truth!
Welcome in the Body of Christ, laneo.
You are not heretic, you just realized the truth like I have started to do so 8 years ago.
My next step then was leaving the Church. Have a look at a Baptist church or so. I bet you will like it. I did, because they thought/think the same as I did. I am not false, thanks god nor am I alone with my beliefe!
Sadly enough the Church, or at least some of the believers (here) didn’t get it.

Let’s pray for them.

In Christ,
Esdra

 

[laneo]

Looks right so far. Narrow minded? You should have talked to some of the n-C Christians that I have encountered both here and in daily life. PM me and I’ll be happy to show you some examples that will make what you read here at CAF look like a warm fuzzy hug.
Yet even in the New Testament, as well as the writings of the early church (The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans for instance), we see that spoken of quite clearly. The issue becomes one of absolute truth and departure from it. See if this article from my blog helps at all. Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”? Yet, as the epistle if St. Ignatius (above) clearly indicates in chapter VIII that is not what the Apostle St. John handed on to him. Ignatius was discipled by John himself and this was written only a very few years after St. John passed away.

Also, consider this. If you ask someone for directions and they misdirect you, even though they assure you that they know what they are talking about, do you get where you are going? Do you appreciate the wasted time and effort that it necessitates? The same is true of the modern (remember here that almost all n-C faith communities and their doctrines are not more than 500 years old) reformers and their step children, (I call them that because many of them do not even hold to what the reformers themselves did.) of today.There was a time when I think I felt this same way. Look where it led. My Testimony.

I have been approached by many narrow minded people, Christians, Atheists, etc, I just haven’t been treated like this by my own. I am sorry I don’t agree with some things, but that’s just how I am. If you honestly believe that the CC is the only true way to Christ, then believe it. Jesus loves without condition, and will not turn away those who are non-Catholics. In my view, if you accept Christ, acknowledge your a sinner, ask for forgiveness and try to live by the word, that my friends is a Christian, and the true path to salvation. Obeying rules and doctrines is fine, but don’t place yourself on a pedestal. Catholics are just a branch of Christianity in my eyes. Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists, Catholics, no difference to me. Just different customs. We kneel and make the sign of the cross, other religions may not, whatever. We all believe in the SAME CHRIST, and are sinners. God doesn’t see us any different. I am sorry, but if you disagree with me, that’s fine. I am not here to convince you. When I close my eyes for the last time, I KNOW where I am going and I am not fearful.

 

[CatholicFireman]

Hi

another Christian who got it.
Oh thank you Jesus that you really guide people into the truth!
Welcome in the Body of Christ, laneo.
You are not heretic, you just realized the truth like I have started to do so 8 years ago.
My next step then was leaving the Church. Have a look at a Baptist church or so. I bet you will like it. I did, because they thought/think the same as I did. I am not false, thanks god nor am I alone with my beliefe!
Sadly enough the Church, or at least some of the believers (here) didn’t get it.

Let’s pray for them.

In Christ,
Esdra

Um…no. If we all “got it wrong” then why are you on CAF? To “save” us? We all need prayers. So I pray for you and those you seem to agree with on here. Good luck on your journeys Home because that is where I truly think you are heading.

In Christ through Mary,
CF

 

[laneo]

Um…no. If we all “got it wrong” then why are you on CAF? To “save” us? We all need prayers. So I pray for you and those you seem to agree with on here.

In Christ through Mary,
CF

You can pray for me all you want, I don’t need it. I am saved by the blood of Christ. Yes, I am a Catholic, but I am a Christian first and foremost. I have no fear of where I am going. Christ is the all seeing and all knowing Lord. He will not ever, in any sense deny you salvation. As long as you have faith and accept him, that’s what counts. Live your life and try to be the best Christian you can.

 

[CMatt25]

Hey jlengle, the church doesn’t ever tell a person they are going to hell.

CCC846 “Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.”

I don’t know who would know and not enter. But it sure sounds like the CC is telling someone if at one time they believed the CC was necessary but then later had a change of belief, they are in fact going to hell since they can’t be saved.

 

[CMatt25]

It is what it is because its ingrained in your mind… It makes no actually reference that you have to go to a priest. I am sorry I am not an old school Catholic like you and believe everything the Churches laws and doctrines tell me. I know Christ, and I accept his death and resurrection, and he is my redeemer. Is that a problem? Do you honestly believe people who don’t practice our faith are condemned to hell? Do you think Christ will reject those who accept him but are of a different denomination? Protestant or Catholic, its the same Christ and the same God we worship.

:clapping:

 

[laneo]

CCC846 “Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.”

I don’t know who would know and not enter. But it sure sounds like the CC is telling someone if at one time they believed the CC was necessary but then later had a change of belief, they are in fact going to hell since they can’t be saved.

Mark 16:16

John 3:36

and John 6:40

 

[Tartini]

You can pray for me all you want, I don’t need it. I am saved by the blood of Christ. Yes, I am a Catholic, but I am a Christian first and foremost. I have no fear of where I am going. Christ is the all seeing and all knowing Lord. He will not ever, in any sense deny you salvation. As long as you have faith and accept him, that’s what counts. Live your life and try to be the best Christian you can.

Your statement make me see clearly what you thoughts are. You want to convince yourself of the possibility of oversimplifying the issue, when I think you realize it is not so simple. I have a notion, by you statements, that you are young, possibly under 30 years of age. If that is the case, then the gift of time will be of a great blessing to you if you use it wisely. Your right about the Blood of Christ part, no one would argue that, and that is correct. But you are differentiating between Catholic and Christian, which are the same things. This confusing labeling has always been a problem for obtaining some understanding between CHRISTIANS as a whole. The important point that should be considered is that the Church offers proper guidance to live a holy life.

Did you not understand what I wrote in my last post?

Although it is a very attractively packaged item today, the philosophy of an easy path to Christ is dangerous, and many have been side-tracked by such a practice. How is it that you claim to be Catholic, yet are basically saying the opposite? Your statements are self assuring, when in fact they are also somewhat searching. You want immediate answers but that is impossible. I urge you to do more study of the Church and Her teachings, pray for guidance and accept the charity others offer. Everyone needs prayer.

 

[CMatt25]

the Church teaches nothing that is not absolutely biblical or not pure reason and common sense… Here is a fact: The Catholic Church existed before the Reformation situation, therefore it must be considered as the correct teacher of truth.

Others use the Bible as well. Some don’t take everything literally. And some will say they are literalists. And if someone believes the CC strayed and Christ needs to make corrections and they find Him eleswhere, then that’s their faith. It’s all only a matter of faith and belief. Catholic and otherwise. God bless and peace on you faith journey with him.