Stay Catholic or change religions?

[CMatt25]

jmcrae, sounds like the Catholic Church shouldn’t be punishing people then when following much study and prayer, in their heart of hearts and within the deepest depths of their informed and good consciences, can not follow something. Peace.

 

[CMatt25]

Right. And there is no one alive who can complete that list all by themselves. No single individual can become a doctor, a social worker, a restauranteur, a seamstress, and so many other things, and do all of those jobs at the same time. That’s part of why we need a Church - so that together, we can provide for the needs of the world, instead of each person trying to do it all, all by himself.

And that’s why I include all believers united in Him in that process. Ever little bit helps! Peace.

 

[jmcrae]

jmcrae, sounds like the Catholic Church shouldn’t be punishing people then when following much study and prayer, in their heart of hearts and within the deepest depths of their informed and good consciences, can not follow something. Peace.

If they have in fact studied to be informed on the issue, have humbled themselves, and still can’t (not “won’t” but “can’t” - “can’t” jump 10 feet from a standing start; not “won’t” eat my vegetables) obey the precept, then in a case like that, with the consent of your Pastor or your Confessor, then you would be released from the obligation.

However, in so many cases that I know of, no priest is ever consulted, no books are ever cracked open, and the only time questions are ever asked out loud is when those with the ability to give the answers are not within range of hearing. Mostly, the reason people disobey is because “I have decided that it is so, because of my feelings on the matter.” No research, no consultation, nothing - just feelings.

I always cringe when I hear "I could never believe in a God who … " - what are they going to do, if that’s the only God we have?

If you want to be a believer in God, you can’t invent your own god to believe in - no matter how uncomfortable it may be, we have to believe in the God who actually is. Surely, being God, He has the right to demand of us whatever He wishes. So many people want to make God into their servant - they forget that He is the Master. There is nothing that He “has to” do. There are many things, on the other hand, that He demands of us.

 

[qui_est_ce]

If they have in fact studied to be informed on the issue, have humbled themselves, and still can’t (not “won’t” but “can’t” - “can’t” jump 10 feet from a standing start; not “won’t” eat my vegetables) obey the precept, then in a case like that, with the consent of your Pastor or your Confessor, then you would be released from the obligation.

Like Richard Dawkins?

I always cringe when I hear "I could never believe in a God who … " - what are they going to do, if that’s the only God we have?

I agree, it’s like they are creating a God in their own image and likeness.

If you want to be a believer in God, you can’t invent your own god to believe in - no matter how uncomfortable it may be, we have to believe in the God who actually is. Surely, being God, He has the right to demand of us whatever He wishes. So many people want to make God into their servant - they forget that He is the Master. There is nothing that He “has to” do. There are many things, on the other hand, that He demands of us.

This is what the Pagans did in the OT. Their Gods were just like them. Read Greek and Roman mythology. ugh. What a horrible God it would be if our God was created in our own image and likeness.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Unless man added to the rules. Easy. The Church He set up is made up of the body of His believers. Christ was big on us believing in Him. Not so much on rules. Just ask the Pharisees.

This is the danger when self-interpreting Scriptures. Jesus said,
Matthew 23:

 1  Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples,

2
2 saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their** seat on the chair of Moses**.
3
** Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice.**
4
They tie up heavy burdens 3 (hard to carry) and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they will not lift a finger to move them.
5
4 All their works are performed to be seen. They widen their phylacteries and lengthen their tassels.
6
5 They love places of honor at banquets, seats of honor in synagogues,
7
greetings in marketplaces, and the salutation ‘Rabbi.’

Take a good Bible study and find out what all that stuff really means!

 

[jmcrae]

And that’s why I include all believers united in Him in that process. Ever little bit helps! Peace.

When you are God and you start up your own religion for those whom you have created to be able to know you, you can include anyone you want. As for the Catholic Church, only God can decide who is a member, and who is not.

 

[jmcrae]

Like Richard Dawkins?

Has Richard Dawkins ever consulted with a priest, or humbled himself and considered the idea that not everything that there is to know is contained in his mind?

 

[John_Martin]

Someone asked me about Baptism not long ago – maybe this will be of help with the original post:
Why baptize?
The question arises when people focus on the “spiritual side” of Christianity without acknowledgment of the “physical side”. Their focus is on “going to heaven”, “being right with God”, “having Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior”, etc.
• Explanations do not do a lot to solve this focus, because these explanations are assuming that a certain understanding of the “physical side” of Baptism exists with people. But few people in the modern world have an understanding of the “physical side”.
o When the question arises of “How does Baptism save us?” the explanations are something like, "It is not merely water, but a life-giving washing of regeneration (a sacrament) because it is based on Christ’s command and promise and it is performed in his name.
o That, too, is a focus on the “spiritual side” as an explanation of what is spiritually happening within the physical side, but not telling what is really happening on that physical side.
o Basically, people find it difficult to see how a human action of pouring water on me by a priest in a white robe can do anything to save my soul.
• So, what is really happening on the “physical side” of baptism?
o Do you remember how the whole hope and all the promises of the Old Testament were focused on the promise of the Messiah, who would establish an eternal kingdom? “Messiah” means “Christ” in Greek, and it means “Anointed One” in English.
 They were waiting for the one whom God would anoint as King to establish a new government that would be on his shoulders, a new nation, a new kingdom - not created by men, as our ancestors did when they used weapons to establish the United States.
 The physical side of Baptism began with Jesus being baptized (anointed) as that King –
• The physical activity of John baptizing him was his appointment to the office of King (and High Priest). Jesus became the first citizen of that Kingdom when he was baptized.
• The spiritual side of Jesus’ Baptism was the Dove from heaven, and then the voice from heaven, both confirming what everyone physically saw happen.
 Jesus’ Kingdom was ON Earth, but it was not OF men (men did not establish it). It was OF God - God established it. It was a kingdom OF God, not a kingdom OF men.
 That is the Gospel – the “Gospel of the Kingdom of God” – it is real, it is here, and you are a citizen of it, as described below.
o Here, then is the physical side of baptism –
 Jesus commanded his disciples to make people into new disciples by baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit –
• In other words, he commanded his disciples to grant citizenship to people into his Kingdom on earth by baptizing them.
• It is a kingdom with citizens,
• But it is a kingdom with no land (yet), as Jesus said, “Foxes have dens, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head” (“Son of Man” was the title for the Messiah, the Anointed King, from the prophets of the Old Testament).
• If our King had nowhere to lay his head in his kingdom on earth, then neither do we who are citizens of that kingdom on earth - we are resident aliens on earth, in the human established nations where we live.
 The church is the association of people who are citizens of that kingdom on earth.
• Jesus appointed leaders with the command and authority to grant citizenship and teach the new citizens.
• So, the church baptizes people (grants them citizenship) and then teaches them that it is greater than just an earthly kingdom, but has the spiritual side also.
• When you were baptized you became a citizen of Jesus’ kingdom on earth, but he is risen from death; you who are his subjects on earth will also be with him in his spiritual, eternal kingdom.
• All participating in Jesus’ kingdom on earth, by faith also know they are part of a kingdom that transcends earth into the heavens where He sits at his Father’s right hand.
• They know that their baptism was physically “the granting of citizenship into a kingdom on earth”, and they know it was also a washing of new birth into sonship in the heavenly kingdom. Their True Nationality is “Christian”.
o No one is “born” into Jesus’ kingdom by human birth – you were not born a Catholic. Babies are not “automatically” Christians.
 People desiring to be in Jesus’ kingdom are accepted in, baptized into citizenship
 However, since its beginnings, the Church has always welcomed whole families into citizenship together, baptizing children, teaching them as they grow up about the true nature of the kingdom of God – that they are part of it on earth and will be part of it when their King returns to claim them.
 If we do not baptize our children, then we cannot comfort them by saying, “you are Jesus’ brother / sister”, “you are one of his people”, “Jesus chose you and made you his own”, etc. Instead we would have to say to them, “When you are old enough to choose for yourself, then you can be a part of Jesus’ kingdom, but you cannot be a part of his people yet because you cannot think clearly yet until you reach a certain age.”
• That may sound cruel, but the kingdom is here, and it has a physical point of entrance (baptism) – don’t hold back your child / baby from being brought into the kingdom, and then learning to know who their king is.
• Jesus declared the same when people brought babies and children to him (Luke 18:15-17) – his Kingdom belongs to them and all who receive it like they do. Jesus rebuked his disciples for stopping these parents, so since then the Church does not refuse citizenship to babies and children who are brought to Jesus’ Kingdom by their parents. The Church grants this blessing of citizenship to the babies and children by baptizing them, and then teaches them about their King as they grow.
This physical reality bearing the spiritual reality is not present anywhere else in the world.

 

[DebCat129]

"CARV:

In my opinion, you are probably not a good fit for the Catholic Church. You would have to live in opposition with what your church teaches. Your children would probably be taught that thier non-catholic father is going to hell and that you’re going to hell because you use contraception (if you do, that is).

Carv…the nerve of you!!! Wow, what you are doing right here IS A MORTAL SIN! What you are doing is condemning jlengle,and telling her to leave the church, instead of hearing jlengle and addressing his or her objections, you are telling them they are going to hell, and to leave the Church! Wow…put the brakes on, you don’t have that authority…I’m sure as my spiritual director tells me…we don’t know what happens in the heart between the time that someone knows they are going to die and when they die…Gods grace abounds, and he wants us all to make it to heaven, its not your place to condemn. God help you, because if you cause jlengle to leave the church that will be on your soul forever, and you will be called to account for that!

If that is the case…then I probably have a spot in Hell with my name written all over it! But I don’t believe that and it’s hard to understand why the die hard Catholics think that every wrong doing is going to send you to Hell. Seriously…how long ago was the Bible written?

JLENGLE…Wow, sorry you had to put up with that…I don’t think CARV is in a better place then you by default of his attack… Wow…
Look, I was you! What I mean is I was pro-choice, pro same sex marriage, pro- contraception, Had a son out of wedlock, and lived with my husband before marriage. I will pray for you the same way someone must have prayed for me…
Salvation is a journey, and the human nature is complex…I’m sure you will agree that you are not the same person you were 5 or even 10 years ago??? You are different, you’ve learned new things,and its shaped and molded who you are now…Well that never changes…we are constantly changing and will continue to change till our very last breath…Now me, I would never tell you, nor should anyone tell you are going to hell…Thats above our earthly pay grade, thats for God to decide, not US sinful wicked people…That being said, I can tell you that sometimes what we believe is influenced by the secular media, and the secular media is not known for being truthful about many areas like abortion, homosexuality, contraception and so on. So we need to be diligent and be sure we are making informed decisions…
As I said above I was all of the above…What changed me? It was the hunger I had for the truth…I did not know I was hungry for truth until I heard it. I was happy in my life so I thought…Really, I was a sad, sensitive, almost angry person…but if you told me that I would not have believed you…In hind sight I was a mess, my family was a mess, we were all so lost…Let me share something with you…
Our Good Lord God, when he created us, when he breathed our souls into existence, he put his mark on our souls, he designed us with a place on our hearts and souls that can only be filled by Truth and that truth is God…I’m gonna use an analogy…Mother Theresa of Calcutta told of how she witnessed the hungry people that she so selflessly helped, would go around and pick up dog dung and eat it just to fill the painful emptiness of the hunger they had…dog dung…how horrible…Now lets take people like us…We are so starved for something missing in that place in us that God set aside that can only be filled by him and his unconditional love and truth…Now we fill that place with some really equally horrible stuff…Like Drugs, Alcohol, Men, Women, Shopping, promiscuity, sexual immorality, PRIDE, SELF EXALTATION, Relativism (the belief that you are the measure of good and evil, in essence you become your own god), hate, anger, depression, compulsion, and the list goes on…But…When you hear the TRUTH it resonates and reverberates through your HEART, BODY, MIND, SOUL, AND SPIRIT, and it leaps out of you to those you love, because you want them to know the truth…
And Jlengle, when you get to where I am…notice I’m not saying if, but when, You will make one of the best Catholics…I know this because you have courage enough to voice your opposition…Don’t leave you are home, I’d like to extend to you an opportunity to discuss your opposition, and a chance for you to hear some real truth…I care anytime anyone is considering leaving the Church…I will pm you my e-mail address and we can converse. God bless you, and be peaceful!

 

[Mary_Virginia]

Dear JLEngle00:

I am a new Catholic but I would find a nearby church or ask a family member to put you in touch with an R.C.I.A. class teacher and take the classes to get familiar with the Catholic way again so you can work out any issues you may have. It seems you really want to stay in the Church. Don't worry about your sins...that is what church & confession are for and the Priests have heard it all, I'm sure!  Just pray for your husband and be gentle with your conversations. Don't ever try to convert anyone but if they ask/answer...and what better way than to take classes yourself,you may be surprised about what you find out,and don't be afraid,they are THERE for YOU. If not,you are in the wrong place!

Never give up! BELIEVE in YOURSELF and believe in GOD-he sacrificed his only SON for us and not for any other reason. Pray always and develop a close relationship with God so no matter what you end up doing, just keep him FIRST. Seek PEACE with your feelings or you will never be happy. Mary

 

[DebCat129]

A majority of Catholics are of the cafeteria variety so you won’t be out of place. I read somewhere that 90% of them disagree with the Pope concerning contraception. The only problem will be that eventually someone (priest, catechist) is going to teach your kids that non-catholics can go to hell for being heretics, contraception is sinful, and priestly confession is required for every single serious sin a person commits. What do you plan to tell your kids? That your Church teaches falsehoods? What will you say when they ask why you still go?

I am not trying to convince you to stay away from the Catholic Church but I am 29 and my wife and I have a 9 month old and we are 14 weeks pregnant. We used to be Catholic but we started to have doubts about some of the CC’s teachings. We felt that raising ours kids Catholic, when we really didn’t believe in Catholic doctrine, we be poisonous to them and eventually they would not have any faith in Christ at all.

The problem here is you are not seeking out the truth…you poison your children anyway when you either don’t teach them or you teach them half truths. People need to have the courage to face the truth and only then will they grow…People need to remember that faith and truth are a gift given by God.
Don’t assume you know about others lives…I will give you an example why you should not assume… My husband and I have only 1 living son…we lost twins at 24 weeks gestation, and we lost another son at 8 months…We don’t use contraception, we do NFP…people such as yourself judge us every day, saying we are hypocrites and phonies because we only have one living miracle, our beautiful son…on top of that when I get pregnant I become very ill, nonetheless we want more kids, but we have not been blessed to conceive again…Keep your judgements to yourself, you may be wrong…I never miss mass, I go daily, however on weekends we attend other parishes in our area… we have particular priests that we enjoy listening to and visiting…so…someone such as yourself my assume that we miss church often, you’d be wrong…we have not missed church once in over 10 years…not for any reason…I’d be careful with your faulty assumptions. Also, you are not doing yourself any favors by leading others astray…you can call it what you want, the action is creating doubt because you are lacking…but it does not have to be that way…you can soften your hardened heart, just ask the Lord to guide you.
If you would spend more time on your spiritual well being, and less time making assumptions about others, you might be in a better place…and you might have a leg to stand on…You are not the rule you are the exception…If you got to know those that you are judging you may realize how wrong you really are…Yes there are those who think they are Catholic, but pick and choose what the want to believe, but Church was not given to us by Jesus for only perfect people to attend, he gave us the church so that we can get better spiritually, to heal ourselves of our selfish thoughts and actions…otherwise if we were all perfect why would we need God??? We are not so he gave us the next best thing…a road map on how to make it Heaven…its not an easy road, but its worth the journey… He calls all of us…and in his time he will reveal himself to those fallen away, those living protestant lives…but when they come home…what a glorious day…

 

[CMatt25]

This is the danger when self-interpreting Scriptures. Jesus said,
Take a good Bible study and find out what all that stuff really means!

Christ also warned us not to simply blindly follow without using our God given minds to look at the fruits of those we follow so as to know them. I’ll assume though you mean only a Catholic Bible study with its interpretations is good though, right?

 

[Otter1]

If I may;
I was in very much the same situation about 2 years ago. The best thing to try is to talk to your parish priest and see about RCIA. No one is going to ask you for a commitment before you discern what the Lord is calling you to do. I was a Cradle Catholic, received the sacraments of First Eucharist and Confirmation, then due to family issues left home. I always felt God pulling me back. After meeting my current husband I attended the Lutheran Church with his family and eventually married in that church. Along the way I experimented with different faiths and found myself learning about the LDS, Mormon, faith. I joined and spent 10 years there with my sons. I did not join from conviction, comfort and family atmosphere. I was not where I was suppose to be and knew it. I worked up the courage to go to mass and felt that it was right, actually more than right! I met with our parish priest just knowing that I had burnt my bridges and would not be able to come home. I was so wrong! The Church is not punative. The rules are not what I thought they were. It took going in and asking the questions to get the real answers. A lot of people out there think they “know” church teaching, maybe not!

A lot has happened since I started asking questions. My husband is not and most likely will never be a Catholic. My marriage was convalidated, recognized, by the church and I am back in full communion. My yougest son was received into the Church at Easter Vigil 2010, my older son is still investigating and learning.

The reason for my wandering was bad/incomplete education in the Catholic Church as well as not asking questions from people in postition to have the correct/authentic answers. Find out all you can and pray about what you are learning. May God bless you on your journey.

 

[guanophore]

Okay, well, I am not trying to create my own beliefs or anything. I just get the notion that all these doctrines and Laws of the church were established by MAN and HIS interpretation of what is written in the Bible. I guess I am just more liberal than most on here, which is why I don’t belong on this forum. I feel like its a cult, rather than a community.

This is a very common impression, laneo, but an erroneous one. Yes, there are disciplines created by men, but the doctrine came from Jesus. None of them are “interpretation of what is written in the bible”. Catholic Doctrine comes from Jesus, through the Apostles,a nd was whole and entire before a word of the NT was ever written.

When you start studying the history of your faith, you will learn which ones are from God, and which are from man. We have Tradition with a capital “T” that is from God, and traditions with a small “t” that are human customs. It is very important to know the difference.

 

[CMatt25]

When you are God and you start up your own religion for those whom you have created to be able to know you, you can include anyone you want. As for the Catholic Church, only God can decide who is a member, and who is not.

Jm, I will never be God but you don’t have to exclude anyone either. God according to the CC has already decided.

CCC 818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers … All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

1. It remains clear, in any event, that **the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond **which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection
   vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html

Peace as we strive to walk in unison, in our unity in Him, with our fellow baptized Christians all as members of the Body of Christ.

 

[guanophore]

Leave me be. I understand the Apostoles and what they did.

Dear brother in Christ, we cannot leave you be! A lot of good Seuss stories come to mind. Try our green eggs and ham! Try them try them!

You may think you understand whtat the apostles did,b ut you don’t. If you think the Sacred Traditions they passed on to us were made up by men, then you don’t know.

 I just get the impression from people on here that non-Catholics are denied salvation, and Catholics that dont follow all the Church sets are denied salvation.

I am not sure where you got this, but it is not Catholic.

Do you really think Christ will look at someone and say “Let’s see you accepted My birth, death and resurrection, and asked for forgiveness, but you’re protestant? Hmm, tisk tisk, sorry”. That just how people on here make it seem to be.

I can’t deny that there are bigoted Catholics. However, we are not in a position to judge a person’s soul. What we do know is that all the Protestant sects have jettisoned some part of the Apostolic Faith. By definition, they are missing part of the Truth.

I really don’t belong here. It’s a very foreign environment. In my years of upbringing around the catholic church and being around Catholic people I never came in contact with anyone like how some here on the forums.

LOL. Well, I admit, some of us are a bunch of zealots. You don;t have to be a zealot to belong here, though. You might feel more comfortable over in the Catholic Living area. They are more warm.

They don’t get indignant so fast, and yell WHAT??? when you say something non-Catholic.

 

[CMatt25]

Dear JLEngle00:

I am a new Catholic but I would find a nearby church or ask a family member to put you in touch with an R.C.I.A. class teacher and take the classes to get familiar with the Catholic way again so you can work out any issues you may have. It seems you really want to stay in the Church. Don't worry about your sins...that is what church & confession are for and the Priests have heard it all, I'm sure!  Just pray for your husband and be gentle with your conversations. Don't ever try to convert anyone but if they ask/answer...and what better way than to take classes yourself,you may be surprised about what you find out,and don't be afraid,they are THERE for YOU. If not,you are in the wrong place!

Never give up! BELIEVE in YOURSELF and believe in GOD-he sacrificed his only SON for us and not for any other reason. Pray always and develop a close relationship with God so no matter what you end up doing, just keep him FIRST. Seek PEACE with your feelings or you will never be happy. Mary

I’d be careful though just walking into any nearby church. The nearest one to me has a priest who says his answer to the poor is simply to get a job. And this on the heels of the worst economic recession since the Great Depression. But at least I knew enough that this was not Jesus’s only answer and not to walk back in there. He seemed to have completely missed the Gospel about serving the poor.

I’m not saying this would be reflective of your nearby church. But only to keep your eyes and ears open. As by their fruits we shall know them.

 

[Cohibas]

You’re feeling what many feel after substantial time away from the Church. It’s a sense of “I am not worthy.” That’s really what’s keeping you away. As for the specific issues, if folks like Scott Hahn (former Protestant minister and hater of the Catholic Church) can experience a conversion and change of heart sufficient to work through the “issues,” than so can you!

Think about St. Peter who denied Christ, and yet was appointed by Christ as the very foundation of His Church. He probably did not consider himself to be worthy.

Think of St. Paul who persecuted Christians and who some say was even responsible for the murder of many of them. When the Lord snapped him out of it by asking him “Why are you persecuting my Church?,” Paul became one of the greatest Christians of all time! He probably felt unworthy.

And lastly, consider the great St. Augustine. He led a wild life and had a child out of wedlock. His mother prayed and prayed, and finally he followed Christ and eventually became a Bishop and a Doctor of the Church. No doubt he considered himself to be unworthy before he stepped back onto the pathway to Christ.

Jump back in and trust in the awesome power of the Holy Spirit! He’s planted the seed as evidenced by you even asking the question. Pour a drop of water on it. Let a ray of sunshine touch it. Then step back and watch it grow!!!

God bless you Brother!

 

[jmcrae]

Jm, I will never be God but you don’t have to exclude anyone either. God according to the CC has already decided.

CCC 818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers … All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

1. It remains clear, in any event, that **the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond **which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection
   vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html

Peace as we strive to walk in unison, in our unity in Him, with our fellow baptized Christians all as members of the Body of Christ.

Yes, they are partially united through Baptism, but baptism is only the beginning. Read the rest of the document!

 

[CMatt25]

The problem here is you are not seeking out the truth…you poison your children anyway when you either don’t teach them or you teach them half truths. People need to have the courage to face the truth and only then will they grow…People need to remember that faith and truth are a gift given by God.
Don’t assume you know about others lives… I’d be careful with your faulty assumptions. Also, you are not doing yourself any favors by leading others astray…you can call it what you want, the action is creating doubt because you are lacking…but it does not have to be that way…you can soften your hardened heart, just ask the Lord to guide you.
If you would spend more time on your spiritual well being, and less time making assumptions about others, you might be in a better place…and you might have a leg to stand on…You are not the rule you are the exception…If you got to know those that you are judging you may realize how wrong you really are…Yes there are those who think they are Catholic, but pick and choose what the want to believe, but Church was not given to us by Jesus for only perfect people to attend, he gave us the church so that we can get better spiritually, to heal ourselves of our selfish thoughts and actions…otherwise if we were all perfect why would we need God??? We are not so he gave us the next best thing…a road map on how to make it Heaven…its not an easy road, but its worth the journey… He calls all of us…and in his time he will reveal himself to those fallen away, those living protestant lives…but when they come home…what a glorious day…

WOW! After all that talk about not assuming and then you assume he isn’t seeking truth and is not spending enough time on his spiritual well being. All simply because his faith beliefs don’t quite measure up to your own beliefs of what you perceive or believe to be “true”. I’m not sure if we should now bow, genuflect or what. But that was some discourse, Deb!