T
TedDC
Guest
Through the ability to compel compliance with their will.
- Status
L
laneo
Guest
Well, getting mad over changing money is a bit different than eating a piece of toast before mass. That’s just how I feel. Is there something Biblical stating that he would want us to fast before going to mass and receiving the body of Christ?
T
TedDC
Guest
I understand that is your belief. It is not mine.
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
Great minds think alike!
J
jmcrae
Guest
No. That’s not “authority” - that’s just bullying.Authority comes in two ways: first, from being the “author” of the organization, and the second way is that it comes from higher, already-existing authority.
In the first case, notice the root syllable, which is the same root syllable as in the word “author.” We have authority over the things that we have authored - that which we are responsible for causing to exist.
The authority of parents over their children comes from the fact that they are the cause of their children’s existence.
A business man’s authority over his business comes from the fact that he is the founder of that business.
A scholar’s authority comes from the fact that he is the discoverer of the information that he is presenting in his scholarship.
God’s authority comes from the fact that He created the Universe and everything in it.
In the second case, we have institutions and authorities already existing. The existing authorities pass all or part of their authority to a new person. Usually, there are commonly accepted procedures for doing this, so that everyone who is affected becomes aware of the new person and the level of their authority.
For example, the authority of a baby sitter comes from the parents. The parents introduce the baby sitter to their children, and tell the children to be obedient to the baby sitter. If the children disobey the baby sitter, the parents will punish them in the same way that they would punish them if they had disobeyed the parents.
The authority of a manager comes from the owner and founder of the company who hired him. The employees of the company are introduced to the manager by the boss, and are told what the scope of his authority is, and how to report to him. Those who disobey the manager can be fired in just the same way as if they had disobeyed the boss.
The authority of a teacher comes from his adherence to the teachings of the scholars whose teachings he is presenting. If the students fail to grasp what the teacher is explaining, the teacher can give a failing grade to the student. If the teacher fails to present the teachings accurately, others representing the scholars would correct the teacher. He would not be able to say “But I disagree, and that’s my opinion!” and still be able to keep his job.
God established the Catholic Church. The authority of Jesus Christ was given to the Apostles, who in turn passed it on to the Pope and his Bishops, and over the passage of time, that authority has been passed down to the Bishops of today, who have the same authority over us as the Apostles had over the Church of their day.
J
jmcrae
Guest
It’s not written out explicitly in the Bible “you must fast for one hour at a minimum” because that is our current discipline. However, from the beginning, and even in the Old Testament, they always ate the Sacrifice on an empty stomach - fasting was part of preparation to meet the Divine. Since we meet Jesus in His Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity in Holy Communion, it certainly makes sense to continue that tradition of receiving Him with an empty stomach and a disciplined mind.
J
jmcrae
Guest
Great minds think alike!
T
TedDC
Guest
Yes, I agree with all that.
Authority comes in two ways: first, from being the “author” of the organization, and the second way is that it comes from higher, already-existing authority.
In the first case, notice the root syllable, which is the same root syllable as in the word “author.” We have authority over the things that we have authored - that which we are responsible for causing to exist.
The authority of parents over their children comes from the fact that they are the cause of their children’s existence.
A business man’s authority over his business comes from the fact that he is the founder of that business.
A scholar’s authority comes from the fact that he is the discoverer of the information that he is presenting in his scholarship.
God’s authority comes from the fact that He created the Universe and everything in it.
In the second case, we have institutions and authorities already existing. The existing authorities pass all or part of their authority to a new person. Usually, there are commonly accepted procedures for doing this, so that everyone who is affected becomes aware of the new person and the level of their authority.
For example, the authority of a baby sitter comes from the parents. The parents introduce the baby sitter to their children, and tell the children to be obedient to the baby sitter. If the children disobey the baby sitter, the parents will punish them in the same way that they would punish them if they had disobeyed the parents.
The authority of a manager comes from the owner and founder of the company who hired him. The employees of the company are introduced to the manager by the boss, and are told what the scope of his authority is, and how to report to him. Those who disobey the manager can be fired in just the same way as if they had disobeyed the boss.
The authority of a teacher comes from his adherence to the teachings of the scholars whose teachings he is presenting. If the students fail to grasp what the teacher is explaining, the teacher can give a failing grade to the student. If the teacher fails to present the teachings accurately, others representing the scholars would correct the teacher. He would not be able to say “But I disagree, and that’s my opinion!” and still be able to keep his job.
I do not believe in that succession. I know the Church would very much like me to - the craving for power and authority is inherent in man - but I do not believe that the present-day Roman Catholic Church has in fact inherited the authority it claims for itself.
L
laneo
Guest
Well, I do understand fasting before communion is a respect thing, but I don’t think it leads to condemnation. I guess I am just ignorant about the Catholic Church, I may acknowledge the basis of what Christianity is all about, Apostolic Succession, etc, but to say those who don’t follow the CC (but another denomination) are not being true to Christ, I just don’t see that, sorry. I guess I am just yet another, cafeteria Catholic.
J
jmcrae
Guest
Jesus promised that His Church could never fail, until the end of time, and that it would be a world-wide, visible, authoritative organization.
If the present-day Catholic Church is not the one, then can you please point out which one it is, and show how the authority of Christ was passed in an unbroken line through every generation to it? Thanks!!
J
jmcrae
Guest
The Church is the Body of Christ, and the members of the Church are His hands and feet in this world, right? So, if the Church tells you to do something, that’s Christ’s voice, coming out of Christ’s Body, telling you to do it. Christ isn’t something separate from His Body. His is the will that drives it, and the voice that comes forth from it.
L
laneo
Guest
What if the Church told you to jump off a cliff? Would ya do it? haha. I know that would ever be established, but I bet someone would try it…
J
jmcrae
Guest
The Church would never tell me to do anything that Jesus didn’t want me to do, because of Jesus’ promises of protection to the Church - so, if the Church were telling me to jump off a cliff, there would be a very good reason for it - perhaps a brush fire coming my way where I would get burned to death very suddenly, if I don’t jump off right away - and they would also have put nets and other protection on to the cliff so that I would not be harmed by jumping.What if the Church told you to jump off a cliff? Would ya do it? haha. I know that would ever be established, but I bet someone would try it…
So, a round about answer, but essentially, if the Church told me to jump off a cliff, I most likely would - yes. I’d want to know why, of course, but I wouldn’t stand there demanding to be convinced by every proof imaginable while the fire is rushing up behind me to consume me - I would just listen to the answer, and then go!
T
TedDC
Guest
I don’t believe there is one such church, nor is one needed.Jesus promised that His Church could never fail, until the end of time, and that it would be a world-wide, visible, authoritative organization.
If the present-day Catholic Church is not the one, then can you please point out which one it is, and show how the authority of Christ was passed in an unbroken line through every generation to it? Thanks!!
G
guanophore
Guest
Docile submission is an attitude of the heart. It means that one receives the Teaching of the Apostles with a teachable attitude. It seems that you have been severely wounded by person (s) in a position of authority, and have trust issues. It is very difficult for a person with such issues to grow spiritually. The would prevents growth, or slows it down markedly.
One can use one’s mind just fine when one has a teachable and receptive heart. It is like the "good soil that was plowed up, ready to receive the seed.
**1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word that ye may grow thereby: … **
G
guanophore
Guest
Yes. It indicates that the speaker does not consider them coming from God.
J
jmcrae
Guest
What did Jesus establish upon Peter, then? (Matthew 16:18-19)
Of what did Jesus ordain Peter to be Chief Shepherd? (John 21:15-19)
T
TedDC
Guest
Peter passed away a few years ago.What did Jesus establish upon Peter, then? (Matthew 16:18-19)
Of what did Jesus ordain Peter to be Chief Shepherd? (John 21:15-19)
J
jimpres
Guest
Amen, Pope Benedict has published some good books on the “The Fathers” the first and second generations subsequent to the Apostles.Jesus promised that His Church could never fail, until the end of time, and that it would be a world-wide, visible, authoritative organization.
If the present-day Catholic Church is not the one, then can you please point out which one it is, and show how the authority of Christ was passed in an unbroken line through every generation to it? Thanks!!
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
I’ll give you a little story.What if the Church told you to jump off a cliff? Would ya do it? haha. I know that would ever be established, but I bet someone would try it…
A nurse came into a room where a man was screaming and crying in pain from a terrible wound in his leg. She told the man that she would give him some pain medication which will dull the pain, but that it could not be removed completely, and that she would have to then debride (take off) the dead skin and to irrigate and cleanse the wound and that it would be painful, but afterward, it would heal.
The man screamed harder. He refused the procedure. “No, no, you can’t do this!” And of course, since he was of sound mind, he could refuse the procedure. The doctors and nurses could not MAKE him have it.
Then the nurse went to the next room. Another man lay there, screaming and crying, likewise with the same kind of terrible wound in his leg. And this man was also told that he would receive some medication to help, but not completely remove, the pain, and that he would suffer pain in having his wound debrided and irrigated, and then it would in time heal. The man was in terrible pain but he agreed. Soon his shouts of agony, loud as they had been before, nearly doubled. . . and then, silence.
A few days passed.
The second man’s wound, having been cleaned of infection, was healing well. The man’s pain had diminished greatly and would soon be gone. There was no sound of screaming.
There was no sound of screaming in the first man’s room either. . .for he was dead. The infection which raged through his body as he refused to have it treated had killed him.
Why do I tell this story? To remind people that what may appear or sound like something dangerous, hurtful, or even deadly may not in fact be as it 'appears.'
Any person not able to ‘hear’ the story behind the men with leg wounds, just seeing or hearing them scream in pain, and then seeing the nurse approach and STAB into a leg, DEEPENING the wound, and seeing the increased pain in the man, might have yelled, “Stop! You’re hurting him even more!” But. . .if the nurse had stopped. . .then rather than the man going on to recovery and be rid of his pain. . .he would have wound up dead like the first man who would not risk a little ‘additional pain’ in order to have the pain stop once and for all and to be able to go on to live. . .
- Status