Staying Married after Infidelity by Wife

[MomaMary8]

Look, porn is wrong - but there is a moral inequivalency between looking at porn and actual sexual intercourse with someone not your spouse, and I’m sorry, E7, but I think you’re totally out of line blaming this on OP.

Both are mortal sins. Both broke their vows of chastity. It also sounds like this infidelity (porn) was at the beginning of the “marriage.” Yes, the OP started it. His description of their intimate life also made me cringe…using your spouse as a release for lust brought on by pornographic images is one of the lowest things a spouse could do. I don’t think it is strange to hear that the wife found the arms of another man more appealing than those of a spouse that used her body… She even tried to change her body to suit his lust!

But now, they say they are both done with their infidelity. (Are you done with porn, OP?) Then trust the other! You cannot change your spouse and you cannot control her actions. All you can do is love her freely with no expectations in return. You are a full part of this mess, now carry the burden you helped to heave upon your shoulders and you wife’s. She may have culpability in this mess, but you can only look to yourself to make change. I’d stop blaming her and look to see how you can love her more. Pray for her. Your job is to help her reach heaven.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Both are mortal sins. Both broke their vows of chastity. It also sounds like this infidelity (porn) was at the beginning of the “marriage.” Yes, the OP started it. His description of their intimate life also made me cringe…using your spouse as a release for lust brought on by pornographic images is one of the lowest things a spouse could do. I don’t think it is strange to hear that the wife found the arms of another man more appealing than those of a spouse that used her body… She even tried to change her body to suit his lust!

But now, they say they are both done with their infidelity. (Are you done with porn, OP?) Then trust the other! You cannot change your spouse and you cannot control her actions. All you can do is love her freely with no expectations in return. You are a full part of this mess, now carry the burden you helped to heave upon your shoulders and you wife’s. She may have culpability in this mess, but you can only look to yourself to make change. I’d stop blaming her and look to see how you can love her more. Pray for her. Your job is to help her reach heaven.

Wow, I totally missed the porn part. It sounds like he just treated his wife like a piece of sexual garbage for 15 years and only decided to change once he realized he would lose her. Selfish. A woman can tell when she’s not loved or cherished, and she will look for someone strong who will love and protect her.

Of course, he is not responsible for her affair. What she is doing is wrong and we are all responsible for our own choices. But yeah, I would expect after years of his unfaithfulness for her to say “Screw it, if he’s going to just take whatever he wants for his own satisfaction without regard for our vows, so am I”. If this marriage fails, there is plenty of blame to go around.

I admire him for wanting to hold it together, but from the sounds of it, it’s too little, too late. He needs to start taking the necessary steps to protect himself legally in case of divorce, and start planning for a custody battle.

 

[PolarGuy]

This thread is a microcosm of what is seen on this board all the time: gender discrimination, where a wife’s infidelity is blamed on a husband. Ladies, if the husband committed actual adultery, ie sexual intercourse, and his wife had viewed porn (not even saying the one caused the other) you’d skewer him, I mean DESTROY the guy. The women are not being even handed in their approach to this OP.

I would add that I knew someone would (incorrectly) spout that viewing porn is a mortal sin. NO, it is not. It may be grave (maybe) but a) it’s never been declared a mortal sin and b) OPs post clearly showed he lacked knowledge of its seriousness. There is a big difference between that and actual physical intercourse with someone not your spouse.

This thread is just women beating up men. Shame. OP deserves better.

 

[PolarGuy]

“He treated the wife like sexual garbage”?? Wife sleeps around; buys sexy underwear to wear for other men; leaves them for husband to find; and HE’S the one treating her like “sexual garbage?” That attitude and that comment are a disgrace.

 

[Still_Hoping]

T

"I have only been threatened with divorce papers, and to be fair I have threatened back during a fit of anger. Once she told me in 2 weeks I would recieve divorce papers and that she had already told her parents and her brother that she was going to do it for real this time. That was over 2 months ago. "

She is not ready to give up on your marriage but she is stuck feeling like she can’t stay in it.

“Who would I be if I bailed on her?”

It is not for you to bail but for her to decide what to do. The ball is in her court.

“I think I will go back and read Dobson again.”

If it helps but stop over analyzing things and just let God in.

“She won’t open up to me and tell me what was going on. She says she doesn’t know or doesn’t want to talk about it.”

**She may be suffering from some form of depression. When we can’t control our emotions there are deeper reasons for it. She needs professional help but she is looking in the wrong direction. **

"…after 18 years of marriage, if God hasn’t been invited into the marriage, t**hen couples tend to drift apart into seperate lives. **We weren’t spending enough couple time together loving laughing dating talking. She was investing in the kids and for the kids, but was doing nothing but satisfying my sexual desires… My lust for her was as strong if not stronger than for any woman. It was about my failure to recognize my need for a savior and to recognize that what I really wanted was an encounter with Jesus Christ. I tried to put my desire and my wife into the empty hole left by my none relationship with God.

If my suspicions are correct, you neglected your wife’s emotional needs. I believe she must of tried to reach out to you many times. She probably didn’t want to deal with it because you take control of the situation at home. She is seeking to gain control of her life but unfortunately not in the right way. She is losing herself in order to find herself. Let her be and let it be. The harder you try the more she will be confused. She needs to sort things out. You should even suggest time apart. For those who oppose this you probably didn’t experience this first hand. Distance can heal or break a marriage. You have to be ready to take the risk. Either you live this way which is not healthy. (Don’t do it for the kids-they know when mommy and daddy are not happy especially as they get older). This can be more detrimental than good.

Let her go. If she comes back then you got your answer.

God help you.

 

[mavdragon]

As of the original post I am in a state of Grace. I have gone to confession and have truly repented of all that I have done. I have also apologized to her, admitted my fault, asked for her forgiveness and offered to make suitable amends and any reasonable restoration. I would ask all those who read this thread to keep that in mind before judging my actions of the past. I do not take offense at anyone who is saying that porn and lust are wrong. I too believe this to be true and ask your prayers for me as I try to break free from 35+ years of being duped by Satan and his empty promises.
E 7, Please understand that while porn and impurity are not being faithful to our marriage vows, they do not constitute cheating. There is no contact with another human being. Also, the porn viewing and impurity is not ongoing. See above. I can expect her to respect me and take me seriously because I have inherent value as a child of God and deserve respect base solely on that. Her cheating or not is not based on my fidelity it is based on her’s alone. I am not lusting after other women, I am lonely and want to be loved. Pictures don’t talk back, they don’t nag, they don’t give you any disapproving looks or comment on your self worth. I have watched the movie Fireproof twice, and I agree with the premise of the movie that we all need to learn how to love in the way that God loves us. Throwing away a smart phone that has the capacity to do as much if not more good than evil would be to say that we are animals and cannot make a correct choice of how to use these devices in a way that honors God. I am looking into accountability software, and looking for reliable friends who can help me in this area. I have found some sources and am in the process of discerning how to best utilize these. I can and do make new choices to avoid the near occasions of sin, but those actions alone do not protect me from the damage that is already done and the constant barage of sexually explicit images encountered in day to day life not choosen by me to be exposed to. I don’t need Google to find the images, I know URL’s and have to choose not to enter them. I know she must see that I really care, but this isn’t just about my weaknesses.
Thank you Polarguy for your post.
MomaMary8,
first off let me say “praise God for your openness to life in having 10 children”. Now let me try to respond kindly to your questions. Both are mortal sins and both broke vows of chastity, but one one of us realizes this and has confessed and seeks healing and forgiveness and the other doesn’t for whatever reason. What did I start? I do not accept any responsibility for the choice of my spouse to sleep with another man. I was not asked about this before it happened and it did not have my consent. As to the question “Are you done with porn, OP?” Are you done with all your sin? By God’s grace I no longer believe what I used to about it, and I pursue holiness and Virtue in an effort to change my heart regarding sexual impurity and chastity, but ultimately I don’t know my own heart well enough to change by myself. I pray for God’s grace in this matter and ask for your prayers. How can you begin to trust someone who has betrayed you, refuses to apologize or to act in a trustworthy manner? If someone stole all the money you had saved for 50 years, would you just give him your trust with another million dollars? When people say they cannot change their spouse what they really mean is you cannot tell your spouse what to do, and expect them to just do it without question. But, by practicing virtue and becoming holy, you cannot not only change your spouse, but the world. I accept that I cannot control her actions. I do love her freely, but I think only God can love without expectations in return. I have already accepted my part of this mess. I do carry the burden, not only of my actions, but of hers as well. I am willing to do this for her, but she is not willing to forgive me and do the same. She does have culpability in this mess, but refuses to acknowledge this. I do not blame her, I am simply pointing out wrong actions and asking for help and the grace to respond in the best way possible for her, my kids and my family. I do ask for suggestions on just how to love her more, and not just vague statements like, “love here more”. I do pray for her every day, but what do you suggest I say in a prayer for her? I know my job is to help her to reach heaven. But how do you help someone who won’t receive it?

 

[E_7]

E7, I think your advice is awful.

You’re blaming what happened on OP! OP is so tolerant that people are saying to stop being a doormat, and you’re basically saying this is his fault (it’s not). It’s his fault that his wife buys sexy underwear to wear for other men? It’s his fault that wife have him a hug - then said “I only did this as penance?”

Look, porn is wrong - but there is a moral inequivalency between looking at porn and actual sexual intercourse with someone not your spouse, and I’m sorry, E7, but I think you’re totally out of line blaming this on OP.

I’m not blaming the OP, I was just saying that he cheated first, and she could have lied and that that could have triggered her cheating (although this is her fault too for listening and deciding to fall into mortal sin by cheating too). But unless the OP stop this, she will not take him seriously. It is hard to have a change of heart (or mind) for the unwilling cheating spouse if you still see that your willing cheating spouse is not moving heaven and earth to also stop what could have triggered the unwilling cheating spouse to go to another man’s arms.

This thread is a microcosm of what is seen on this board all the time: gender discrimination, where a wife’s infidelity is blamed on a husband. Ladies, if the husband committed actual adultery, ie sexual intercourse, and his wife had viewed porn (not even saying the one caused the other) you’d skewer him, I mean DESTROY the guy. The women are not being even handed in their approach to this OP.

I would add that I knew someone would (incorrectly) spout that viewing porn is a mortal sin. NO, it is not. It may be grave (maybe) but a) it’s never been declared a mortal sin and b) OPs post clearly showed he lacked knowledge of its seriousness. There is a big difference between that and actual physical intercourse with someone not your spouse.

This thread is just women beating up men. Shame. OP deserves better.

I know what you mean, I’ve seen it in many threads where I don’t participate. I’m not destroying the guy, nor blaming him for the other spouse’s sins. If it was the other way around, I would have said exactly the same.

To watch porn is indeed mortal sin (killing the life of grace inside us by refusing God’s grace and life), therefore, you can’t receive the body of Christ until you get absolved by a priest of the Catholic Church. Grave matter is when you go seriously against the moral law, and he consents and knows it’s wrong to be watching porn. So it is a mortal sin. He refuses God’s grace every time he falls into porn.

 

[E_7]

As of the original post I am in a state of Grace. I have gone to confession and have truly repented of all that I have done. I have also apologized to her, admitted my fault, asked for her forgiveness and offered to make suitable amends and any reasonable restoration. I would ask all those who read this thread to keep that in mind before judging my actions of the past. I do not take offense at anyone who is saying that porn and lust are wrong. I too believe this to be true and ask your prayers for me as I try to break free from 35+ years of being duped by Satan and his empty promises.
E 7, Please understand that while porn and impurity are not being faithful to our marriage vows, they do not constitute cheating. There is no contact with another human being. Also, the porn viewing and impurity is not ongoing. See above. I can expect her to respect me and take me seriously because I have inherent value as a child of God and deserve respect base solely on that. Her cheating or not is not based on my fidelity it is based on her’s alone. I am not lusting after other women, I am lonely and want to be loved. Pictures don’t talk back, they don’t nag, they don’t give you any disapproving looks or comment on your self worth. I have watched the movie Fireproof twice, and I agree with the premise of the movie that we all need to learn how to love in the way that God loves us. Throwing away a smart phone that has the capacity to do as much if not more good than evil would be to say that we are animals and cannot make a correct choice of how to use these devices in a way that honors God. I am looking into accountability software, and looking for reliable friends who can help me in this area. I have found some sources and am in the process of discerning how to best utilize these. I can and do make new choices to avoid the near occasions of sin, but those actions alone do not protect me from the damage that is already done and the constant barage of sexually explicit images encountered in day to day life not choosen by me to be exposed to. I don’t need Google to find the images, I know URL’s and have to choose not to enter them. I know she must see that I really care, but this isn’t just about my weaknesses.

Rest assured I’m praying for your situation, and I’m glad you are participating in the sacraments, it combats evil like no other thing on earth!

But, you need to form your conscience a little bit more. Watching pictures and porn of other women is indeed cheating. You don’t have to be physical to cheat or have an affair. You can cheat in your heart, in your mind and physically. I would say that you have an emotional and mental affair every time you watch porn. See: Matthew 5

You have heard that it was said, You shall not commit adultery. But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

ccc

2380 Adultery refers to marital infidelity. When two partners, of whom at least one is married to another party, have sexual relations - even transient ones - they commit adultery. Christ condemns even adultery of mere desire. The sixth commandment and the New Testament forbid adultery absolutely. The prophets denounce the gravity of adultery; they see it as an image of the sin of idolatry.

ccc

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

ccc

2354 Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties. It offends against chastity because it perverts the conjugal act, the intimate giving of spouses to each other. It does grave injury to the dignity of its participants (actors, vendors, the public), since each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit for others. It immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world.** It is a grave offense.** Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

This thread is a microcosm of what is seen on this board all the time: gender discrimination, where a wife’s infidelity is blamed on a husband. Ladies, if the husband committed actual adultery, ie sexual intercourse, and his wife had viewed porn (not even saying the one caused the other) you’d skewer him, I mean DESTROY the guy. The women are not being even handed in their approach to thiso.

I would add that I knew someone would (incorrectly) spout that viewing porn is a mortal sin. NO, it is not. It may be grave (maybe) but a) it’s never been declared a mortal sin and b) OPs post clearly showed he lacked knowledge of its seriousness. There is a big difference between that and actual physical intercourse with someone not your spouse.

This thread is just women beating up men. Shame. OP deserves better.

Oh please, let’s stick to the issue at hand. This is not indicative of pervasive sexual discrimination on these boards, especially since the views here tend to be so diverse.

I view adultery and sexual denial as two different forms of the exact same thing. They are both grave betrayals of your wedding vows and both set your spouse up for serious emotional turmoil and a temptation to do wrong. If a woman came here and said that she denied her husband sex for most of 15 years, and he has started having an affair, I would tell her the same thing: her husband is wrong and responsible for his own actions, but we are all imperfect people and when she denied him for so long, this was the natural and expected outcome.

If you cheat on your wife, or otherwise make her feel unloved or second best to other women, on screen or off, this is the natural and expected outcome after years of receiving that treatment.

Violating your spouse’s trust daily for years and then getting indignant when they respond to the way you’ve been treating them is insane.

To put it more simply, if I punched my husband in the face every day, he would be angry and hurt. He would start with asking me to stop, he’d try to figure out why I was doing it, and over time, his hurt and anger would grow. One of three things would happen: he’d leave me, he’d suffer quietly and lose all love and respect for me as he watched me damage our bond with no concern for him or our family, or he would hit back. I’m betting the last one. It would take awhile, but eventually he would snap. His one punch to my face would be much harder and much more damaging than what I did. But he’s bigger than me and I would have had him in a pressure cooker for a very long time. It would be wrong and he would be responsible for his own actions. But it would be the natural and expected outcome.

 

[PolarGuy]

Some things:

1. It needs a lot of legalism; hairsplitting; interpretations of documents, etc., to get anyone to conclude that porn = cheating, let alone equivalent to actual physical intercourse.
2. In the strongest possible terms: Why do posters continue to beat the OP, tell him to reform his conscience, etc.?? It’s as if people would rather make legal points or win a debate than offer some thoughts to OP whose wife has slept around and behaved disgracefully. Or tell him how badly he behaved or didn’t fulfill her emotional needs? No one has a shred of evidence of this. Get real.

OP: stay strong; ignore the “whited sepulchres” on this board who know absolutely nothing about what you’re dealing with.

The other posters on this board are hitting new lows of disgraceful behavior with each now post. If OP leaves, it’s on your heads.

 

[PolarGuy]

The more I see posts on this board by Catholics…the better Protestants look to me.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Some things:

1. It needs a lot of legalism; hairsplitting; interpretations of documents, etc., to get anyone to conclude that porn = cheating, let alone equivalent to actual physical intercourse.
2. In the strongest possible terms: Why do posters continue to beat the OP, tell him to reform his conscience, etc.?? It’s as if people would rather make legal points or win a debate than offer some thoughts to OP whose wife has slept around and behaved disgracefully. Or tell him how badly he behaved or didn’t fulfill her emotional needs? No one has a shred of evidence of this. Get real.

OP: stay strong; ignore the “whited sepulchres” on this board who know absolutely nothing about what you’re dealing with.

The other posters on this board are hitting new lows of disgraceful behavior with each now post. If OP leaves, it’s on your heads.

Legalism? Your own faith lays out out in black and white. See the aforementioned catechism quotes. Maybe you need a new faith.

We have to protect ourselves, our spouses, and our marriages from plain ol human nature. He admits he did this for 15 years and that he is STILL doing it about once/month! Furthermore, it seems he only gave it up to keep his wife. Whether he’s sincere or not, it isn’t going to look that way to her. Yep, she’s wrong. But trying to find a man who would love her was a likely outcome of his behavior.

You can’t betray your spouse consistently for years to get your jollies and expect them to sit at home and be a paragon of virtue until you decide that they are once again good enough for you. That’s nothing short of cruel.

 

[Still_Hoping]

The more I see posts on this board by Catholics…the better Protestants look to me.

What?!

 

[Corki]

I agree with most of what you said, but this is very, very bad advice. **In most states, it’s outright illegal. ** In places where it isn’t, there are still so many nuances that you can find yourself in very hot water.

But even if it were legally Kosher, it would still be recklessly stupid. All it says is that the guy was smart enough to only record when he wasn’t being abusive. It says nothing about the past, the times the mic was off, or what recordings he may have thrown out. This wouldn’t prove anything at all. And then his lawyer has the lovely job of explaining to the judge “No, your honor, my client isn’t abusive. He’s just the type of guy who clandestinely records conversations just in case”. There is no way that guy is getting the kids. He now looks like a total psycho and he’ll be stuck with a restraining order and state supervised visits for quite awhile.

Just to the bolded, that is not true in the US. For 35 states only one party needs to consent and that’s the federal law too. So, “in most states” it would not be “outright illegal”. Now it may not be prudent. But, even with the position that the person doing the recording would only record the times he looked good, it might be protection against claims of “I never said that” that pop up in contentious divorce negotiations.

 

[Still_Hoping]

Legalism? Your own faith lays out out in black and white. See the aforementioned catechism quotes. Maybe you need a new faith.

We have to protect ourselves, our spouses, and our marriages from plain ol human nature. He admits he did this for 15 years and that he is STILL doing it about once/month! Furthermore, it seems he only gave it up to keep his wife. Whether he’s sincere or not, it isn’t going to look that way to her. Yep, she’s wrong. But trying to find a man who would love her was a likely outcome of his behavior.

You can’t betray your spouse consistently for years to get your jollies and expect them to sit at home and be a paragon of virtue until you decide that they are once again good enough for you. That’s nothing short of cruel.

Ever heard of two wrongs don’t make a right? Listen I can understand most people’s reaction and how different they can be. Even if you take religion out of the picture, the fact remains that she sought to find solace in an extramarital affair? This is so wrong. If she was being wronged then she should of confronted it head on and not resort to what she did. She has to own up to her mistakes and a grave one at that. He obviously has his part but what is remarkable is that he is making the effort to change in a big way. So let’s respect that. The wife has to come to her own terms. Sometimes that means learning to let go.

God knows that if I did this to my husband I wouldn’t even get to see the light of day. I would be on the street regardless of why I did it.

I will pray for your cause Mavdragon. I know how hard marriage can be especially with all these issues.

 

[E_7]

Oh please, let’s stick to the issue at hand. This is not indicative of pervasive sexual discrimination on these boards, especially since the views here tend to be so diverse.

I view adultery and sexual denial as two different forms of the exact same thing. They are both grave betrayals of your wedding vows and both set your spouse up for serious emotional turmoil and a temptation to do wrong. If a woman came here and said that she denied her husband sex for most of 15 years, and he has started having an affair, I would tell her the same thing: her husband is wrong and responsible for his own actions, but we are all imperfect people and when she denied him for so long, this was the natural and expected outcome.

If you cheat on your wife, or otherwise make her feel unloved or second best to other women, on screen or off, this is the natural and expected outcome after years of receiving that treatment.

Violating your spouse’s trust daily for years and then getting indignant when they respond to the way you’ve been treating them is insane.

To put it more simply, if I punched my husband in the face every day, he would be angry and hurt. He would start with asking me to stop, he’d try to figure out why I was doing it, and over time, his hurt and anger would grow. One of three things would happen: he’d leave me, he’d suffer quietly and lose all love and respect for me as he watched me damage our bond with no concern for him or our family, or he would hit back. I’m betting the last one. It would take awhile, but eventually he would snap. His one punch to my face would be much harder and much more damaging than what I did. But he’s bigger than me and I would have had him in a pressure cooker for a very long time. It would be wrong and he would be responsible for his own actions. But it would be the natural and expected outcome.

Exactly. I couldn’t agree with you more.

Ever heard of two wrongs don’t make a right? Listen I can understand most people’s reaction and how different they can be. Even if you take religion out of the picture, the fact remains that she sought to find solace in an extramarital affair? This is so wrong. If she was being wronged then she should of confronted it head on and not resort to what she did. She has to own up to her mistakes and a grave one at that. He obviously has his part but what is remarkable is that he is making the effort to change in a big way. So let’s respect that. The wife has to come to her own terms. Sometimes that means learning to let go.

God knows that if I did this to my husband I wouldn’t even get to see the light of day. I would be on the street regardless of why I did it.

I will pray for your cause Mavdragon. I know how hard marriage can be especially with all these issues.

 

[E_7]

Some things:

1. It needs a lot of legalism; hairsplitting; interpretations of documents, etc., to get anyone to conclude that porn = cheating, let alone equivalent to actual physical intercourse.

So sinning against God is not having an affair with the devil? How can you love (love as an act or decision) God while disobeying his commandments? Same between spouses. How is watching porn not having an affair ? You are not making any sense.

 

[E_7]

The more I see posts on this board by Catholics…the better Protestants look to me.

Yeah. Unfortunately, there are a few Catholics here with the Protestant mentality of not telling what the OP is doing wrong so to not hurt anyone’s feelings. But aren’t Catholics supposed to help souls get to heaven? Why go silent when the sinful act was publicly mentioned?

 

[Norm_The_Robot]

I went looking for her and found her on the bike trail walking and laughing with him and his son.

Wow. I would have seriously kicked that stuffing out of that dude!

 

[PolarGuy]

People also don’t want to acknowledge that if a woman came here and complained about what OP has complained of, she would be told “dump him; he’s a sinner,” etc., and given a litany of how everyone knew how hard she had it, etc.

Bad enough that that would occur. Even worse that OP has been trashed over and over again, yet it was his wife who slept with another man.

You people don’t know how bad you come across…to say nothing of how hard you at being on OP.