Staying Married after Infidelity by Wife

[1990Domer]

The more I see posts on this board by Catholics…the better Protestants look to me.

Respectfully submitted, this post was in very poor taste and served no purpose but to demean opinions opposed to yours.

 

[hydin]

Not to get tied up in recording issue but some of the states who prohibit “recording” grant exceptions when the person is a party… Like Conn. = In-person conversations: A person not present at a conversation must obtain the consent of at least one participant before any recording can take place under the state’s eavesdropping law. Conn. Gen. Stat. §§ 53a-187, -89.

Check your state law on this easy to use site rcfp.org/reporters-recording-guide/tape-recording-laws-glance

federal law has two huge loopholes that would protect you …
Under the federal Wiretap Act, it is illegal for any person to secretly record an oral, telephonic, or electronic communication that other parties to the communication reasonably expect to be private. (18 U.S.C. § 2511.)
Exceptions A recording otherwise in violation of the Wiretap Act is legal if:
• one person (hydin - that would be you) to the conversation consents to the recording, or
• the person making the secret recording is authorized by law to do.
(18 U.S.C. § 2511.) In practice, this means that recording a conversation is legal if the person making the recording is a party to the conversation (and, therefore, consents to the recording).

 

[1990Domer]

People also don’t want to acknowledge that if a woman came here and complained about what OP has complained of, she would be told “dump him; he’s a sinner,” etc., and given a litany of how everyone knew how hard she had it, etc.

Bad enough that that would occur. Even worse that OP has been trashed over and over again, yet it was his wife who slept with another man.

You people don’t know how bad you come across…to say nothing of how hard you at being on OP.

I disagree. I made a post in poor taste over something my overly scrupulous husband did (let’s say it was a G rated comparison to what the OP described) and I was crucified for making a big deal out of it. I was trashed…and very hurtfully at that. Sadly, the street does run both ways.

 

[hydin]

(and a bit of inaccurate legal advice from a non-lawyer about taping calls).

Who said anything about recording calls? You record so if she threatens to call the cops on you if you don’t do something you have her voice saying it. I lived this, I have checked it out. If you continued reading I even gave resources for him to use to get the laws for his state.

The advice was rock solid and what a lawyer would tell you to do… If legal in your state.

Priority in this situation is protecting HIM right now. The other advice can wait until he gets his side of the street settled. One of the first rules of relationships is you can fix only you…but few realize it and focus on the other…

 

[hydin]

Maydragon, first thing about these boards is you take what works and leave the rest. Many have an agenda or are hurt and looking for ways to vent. Some have been there, like me, but take that with a grain of salt too… the advice has to work for you. You don’t have to take it and you don’t have to tell anyone that you aren’t taking it… I forget the second too often.

You are doing good things based on your last post. if you want to turn things around here is rule one… your opinion about what you are doing to better yourself doesn’t matter, it is what she sees. (we will talk later about what you have done in the past and what she has done if you want to… now you say you want things better so it is time to only work on you)

Alcohol, if that led to issues as you mention then realize that everytime she sees you with it it brings back memories you do not want her to have. One drink seems ok to you but she is seeing the results before, since she has no idea if you will stop at one. Stop completely. if she mentions it or someone else asks you say something like, "I realized I didn’t like me very much when I drank… Let her know you are working on you. Don’t say anything related to her, you are doing it for you. If you reference her it will make it seem fake. Goal here is to meet the end you want, her back. If that doesn’t workout your work will not be wasted… you will be a better man. Go to Alturtle.com… Here is a link to start… great stuff… no matter what happens. It gently tells you about you and her… articles like “are you a controller? sure you are” easy reads packed with wisdom. FREE too… his key thought is “everybody makes sense all the time” and they to, at least to themselves…which is all that matters to them… start here… but know if you go to the home page there is a list of popular stuff… what to do if he/she leaves , ect. start here… alturtle.com/archives/1273 Praying for you. God has forgiven you. Forgive yourself… people can say what they want and you may feel guilt but you have been forgiven. Now it is up to you to be the best man you can be today and be better tomorrow…Which you may not believe today but it will… I pray every night for my marriage to be restored… My side of the street is all I can control. If she notices great, hope she does. If not? I am a better Dad, friend, and Catholic. I choose to think if God allowed my situation to happen to get me closer to Him and eternal life, He is a loving God. Time here is short. Sometimes things happen to a people not because of what they did but because of what others will see watching them go through it… You are running to God… Good Choice. Breath, throw out advice including mine that doesn’t fit. Pray, remember in the Old Testament Holy people would cry out to God… Let Him know what you are thinking, what you do not understand… be respectful but He wants you to ask (Hint - He knows your heart already). Talk to Him… listen too. Know He is with you. The one thing we don’t realize is the Father, in the prodical son… He was out in the field looking for his son… he had no idea he was on his way home that day… He was looking , waiting for his return each day… That Father is God… important people in those times never ran, slaves ran… He ran to His returning son. He will run/ has run to you. He will not change her free will but He will give you the grace to get through… the stories I could tell… privately… He is good.

 

[PolarGuy]

Hydin, my comment was not directed at anything you’d said.

 

[hydin]

But even if it were legally Kosher, it would still be recklessly stupid. All it says is that the guy was smart enough to only record when he wasn’t being abusive. It says nothing about the past, the times the mic was off, or what recordings he may have thrown out. This wouldn’t prove anything at all. And then his lawyer has the lovely job of explaining to the judge “No, your honor, my client isn’t abusive. He’s just the type of guy who clandestinely records conversations just in case”. There is no way that guy is getting the kids. He now looks like a total psycho and he’ll be stuck with a restraining order and state supervised visits for quite awhile.

To be clear, first follow state law… Most allow taping if you in the room and participate in the discussion (phone is totally different but most still allow one party to the conversation to tape it without permission. Federal law has a loop hole that allows it.

Blue eyed lady, you do not understand why a person would tape conversations. It is for defense purposes. If on tape his wife threatens to call the cops if… or says “all I have to do is call the cops and say you hit me and you are out of here…” It is the only thing that can help him. his word vs her word = accuser wins… for the safety of the person accusing.

Taping totally discredits the accuser. It is never used as an offensive weapon since to you point it can be altered to show the taper in a good light. if recording is legal you can’t have a restraining order issued. She just moves out or doesn’t talk to him…She has remedies to being taped… no need or grounds for legal actions.

 

[styrgwillidar]

…
Priority in this situation is protecting HIM right now.
…

Priority in this situation should be the children. What is best for them. First would be keeping the marriage together if at all possible, which means rebuilding the relationship between the spouses. He’s gotten some good advice about that.

Protecting himself is to enable doing what’s best for the kids. He has to protect his rights to ensure he maintains good relationships with his children. Ultimately, having shared custody or full custody. Statistically, an intact marriage is best for the kids, followed by shared custody, followed by father having custody, followed by mother having custody. Downside of having full custody vice shared is the custodial parent has to make a lot of sacrifices to make space for the non-custodial to maintain their relationship with the children. Kids need both Mom and Dad.

To that end, striving to show respect now and even when hurt or angry treating her well, not being petty or vindictive will better support dealing with the kids together should you end up divorcing. Allowing yourself to become petty and vindictive will certainly lower than chances of reconciliation.

Again, I can’t give advice about keeping the marriage together as I failed to do so. I hate to be negative and imply there is no hope. I don’t know the OP or the wife and only hearing one side of things. Consider carefully what others posted-- I never felt it necessary to tape my wife’s conversations. I did change my will, the beneficiaries of my insurance to solely go to a trust for my children to be run by someone else. Because her actions were clearly not in their best interest and I was concerned that if I died she wouldn’t make good decisions regarding them. The OP knows his wife and what motivates her. I knew mine and was never tempted to isolate bank accounts, or cut credit cards or anything along those lines because she was never a greedy person.

I can say that give it everything you’ve got, what joy you will experience if successful will be well worth it. If the marriage fails, you will better be able to look at yourself in the mirror knowing you truly tried your best.

 

[GreyWings]

First: John 8:7. Don’t cast stones. The OP is seeking help here.

Porn is bad. Was there an addiction? And was it ever discussed? Have you repented?

You don’t help a marriage that is being tainted with watching porn by having an affair. For real. “Two wrongs don’t make a right.”

With an actual physical affair, there’s the potential exposing of STDs.

OP, I have been in a situation where I was being betrayed and I sought out the help of a priest which was the best decision I made. I recommend talking with your priest, doing penance…

 

[1990Domer]

I disagree. I made a post in poor taste over something my overly scrupulous husband did (let’s say it was a G rated comparison to what the OP described) and I was crucified for making a big deal out of it. I was trashed…and very hurtfully at that. Sadly, the street does run both ways.

Please forgive me is this post offended anyone. I obviously offended one person who just PM’ed me and said I was in some way attacking my husband in a passive-aggressive way with what I wrote above, especially when I asked for a thread I made in stress I asked to have pulled.

If anyone needs my address to stone me, feel free to ask. I will provide it.

 

[1990Domer]

On a lighter note, my husband and I are getting some really good laughs now over my mistake. My husband knew I needed some support and realized that I was just very, very sad.

Many blanks of my posts were probably filled in with people’s vision of a person very unlike me and my husband.

My son and husband are exceptional. I am human. I will never turn to this forum for advice again. I’m learning that personal advice is worth what you pay for it.

I will use the forum for info seeking only.

God bless. I hope you all have a better week. And perhaps, perform a random act of kindness to someone who may have ruffled your feathers.

 

[Still_Hoping]

Peace of the Lord to all,

I would like to bring to light the CCC 2386

2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.179 (1640)

I think what we have here is slightly different; the husband neglected and mistreated his wife who for the most part “put up” with his injustices. I don’t think there is any innocent party here but there definitely is one person who is doing all to reconcile his partner and that is the husband. Now is it fair, that he should be paying this way and is it right for her to move on? Neither is innocent but only one seems to acknowledge this wholeheartedly and is willing to do everything to fix it.

A humble and contrite heart is the only way out of this mess. God will provide the answers but I agree with some of the posters here that the husband should take care not to be put in a position that he may later regret. By playing up to his wife, I fear can only deter her. It seems that she is “put off” by him in such a way that in her heart she cannot find it to heal and repent.

To the OP please make your children the focus of your attention and continue to love your wife but make it understood that you cannot be held accountable for her mistakes. Make her understand that you are changing for yourself and for God and not to simply “win” her back. I can tell you that once a woman feels scorned all these efforts to impress her can make her turn away from you. This is my opinion but as for God well listen and He will tell you what to do. Sometimes separation can help even if you don’t want it. I should take my own advice. I cannot seem to leave myself, but mine is a different situation now.

All the best to you. May God’s angels protect you and your family.

PS do let her family know what she has done. It is very important they know the truth. You don’t have to do it to make her look bad but say what has happened and what you have done. Be honest, humble and truthful.

 

[styrgwillidar]

…
PS do let her family know what she has done. It is very important they know the truth. You don’t have to do it to make her look bad but say what has happened and what you have done. Be honest, humble and truthful.

I don’t think this is a good idea and counterproductive to your goals of trying to salvage the marriage. I do not see an upside. It may come off as vindictive/petty to her family. It may turn family members against each other I would think it would certainly provide more of a reason for your spouse to not reconcile. It will also make all family gatherings in the future much more difficult- children’s graduations, holidays, weddings etc.

Think long and hard about this and how it aligns with your goals and your children’s long term interests.

 

[hydin]

You have gotten lots of advice and had your thread hijacked in different ways. Hope you are still checking in. As far as letting people know… the reason for that is research shows as these things go the wayward spouse many times (I do not know your situation) gets to appear like a normal wife and mother to most contacts and to family. Of course that puts the OP in the situation where they seem to be stressed or acting strangely. It is called Cake-eating… having you cake and eating it too… no reason to change behavior… If you want your wife back you have to remove comfort. Telling her family is key. No commentary just when something comes up answer honestly. she is not here, she is with the guy she is having a affair with… when they call. The other key person is the affair partners wife. If she does not know then he is living the dream… Here is a professional counselors site all free great resource… This link is one that applies now. I have read and put in to practice more of it than I can remember. I have also worked with a men’s group on this sort of stuff for over 5 years… this site is golden and handles situations gently and honestly…for guys… women like it too. alturtle.com/archives/791

here is a taste… It is what you asked for HOPE and a way to HEAL… The following paragraph is from alturtle.com middle of page from link above…not from me…

In the last 5 years I have seen more and more of these Giving-Up Marriages coming to my office. People married 20 – 35 years are waking up. It seems that “normal marriage” is not as stable as it used to be. I think there are several factors that contribute to this. In my office, the most common trouble for a long term “Giving-up marriage” is brought on by affairs, either sexual or emotional. The driving factor seems to be the loneliness inherent in a relationship that has not solved the Reliable Membership issue of the Biological Dream. Sometime the addictive behavior, that is a result of people trying to cope with the depression or grief of loss, unstabilizes a Giving-Up Marriage. The build up of Resentment, due to all that submitting, often boils over. Resentment never goes away by itself. It must be processed away. Another common contributor to the awakening of people in a Giving-Up Marriage is when the children start leaving home. Very often when the youngest child reaches 11 – 15, the wife begins to look for more in life. She begins to consider what she has given up.

Others on this site may find it interesting too. It gently makes you take a look at yourself and those behaviors you refuse to admit, sweeping them away with “that’s not me” or denying what they said. Two things Al stresses - everyone makes sense all the time and you can only fix you… Hopefully when you start to work on yourself she notices. Some refuse to change. It is sad to watch. But it is easy to see. search this site… he has a list of article on the home page. you are not the first to be here…

 

[mavdragon]

Peace of the Lord to all,

I think what we have here is slightly different; the husband neglected and mistreated his wife who for the most part “put up” with his injustices. I don’t think there is any innocent party here but there definitely is one person who is doing all to reconcile his partner and that is the husband…but I agree with some of the posters here that the husband should take care not to be put in a position that he may later regret. By playing up to his wife, I fear can only deter her. It seems that she is “put off” by him in such a way that in her heart she cannot find it to heal and repent.

Thank you Still Hoping for trying to understand the situation and for trying to offer help. I would just like to take exception to the comment about “the husband neglected and mistreated his wife who for the most part “put up” with his injustices.”

First, without having lived the situation no one here has enough information to judge if my treatment of my wife was neglecting or mistreating her. This kind of broad sweeping judgmental statement hurt me and made it hard for me to continue reading the rest of the much more helpful heartfelt advice later in the response.

Could you expand what was said about the husband to take care not to be put in a position that he may later regret? What constitutes playing up to my wife and how can I avoid falling into that pitfall? The link from Hydin to the turtle advice column suggests that pull statements should be used in place of questions because even questions can be taken as an attack by the party in the relationship who is avoiding the pursuer.

Still Hoping, I still have not been able to find out from my wife why she is so put off with me. I get statements like, “I just don’t like you.” “I don’t love you any more” “It’s everything about you.” “it’s too late, I have nothing to say to you.”

 

[mavdragon]

You have gotten lots of advice and had your thread hijacked in different ways. Hope you are still checking in.

Yes, even though some have gotten off topic and some have unjustly judged a situation they only know a tiny bit about I am very grateful for those of you who are really trying to help the situation. Also I’m very grateful for the prayers both prayed for me and those suggestions of prayers that I can pray for my wife and kids. I read it all, and sort thru what I think may be helpful and try to answer any concerns brought up and try to focus the discussion to the positive.

As far as letting people know… the reason for that is research shows as these things go the wayward spouse many times (I do not know your situation) gets to appear like a normal wife and mother to most contacts and to family…

I have told her parents, her aunt and uncle, her brother and his wife know. I have not told all her cousins aunts and uncles. I have told her declared best friend at the time but have not told all our acquaintances. I have told our Deacon and his wife. Some of the people from our church I have told what is going on, but I have not made it public to all at church (maybe others have let it slip so I don’t know exactly how man people at church know.). The men’s group I’m in knows about it and I have talked to some of them individually in depth to get their counsel. She has many acquaintances that are completely oblivious to what is happening, but I don’t have hardly any exposure to these people so I’m not comfortable talking to them about us. My mission is not to destroy her name, but yet to some people I have to explain why I am acting the way I am around her. I had to tell my kids because they have been in the house when some of the discussions happened and I didn’t behave very well. I had to apologize for my actions and words and try to explain myself to them. (I went a long time before revealing to the kids about what happened. I wanted to be able to tell them when I was not as emotionally effected by what was happening.)

The affair partner of my wife is not married. He is divorced and has custody of his 9 year old boy. He lives with his parents, does not have a drivers license. It seems as though he doesn’t hold onto jobs for very long, but I could be wrong about this. He does drugs according to my wife, something she doesn’t like about him and she claims she is no longer seeing him for about a year now. (previously she told me she stopped seeing him 2 years ago, so this admission is still suspect.)

 

[on_the_hill]

I have told her parents, her aunt and uncle, her brother and his wife know. I have not told all her cousins aunts and uncles. I have told her declared best friend at the time but have not told all our acquaintances. I have told our Deacon and his wife. Some of the people from our church I have told what is going on, but I have not made it public to all at church (maybe others have let it slip so I don’t know exactly how man people at church know.). The men’s group I’m in knows about it and I have talked to some of them individually in depth to get their counsel. She has many acquaintances that are completely oblivious to what is happening, but I don’t have hardly any exposure to these people so I’m not comfortable talking to them about us. My mission is not to destroy her name, but yet to some people I have to explain why I am acting the way I am around her. I had to tell my kids because they have been in the house when some of the discussions happened and I didn’t behave very well. I had to apologize for my actions and words and try to explain myself to them. (I went a long time before revealing to the kids about what happened. I wanted to be able to tell them when I was not as emotionally effected by what was happening.)

Whoa.
Are you serious? You told everyone you know, shared it with her family, the men’s group…at least 10 priests, the deacon and his wife, people at church, basically everyone except those you’re not comfortable with? Give yourself a medal for your discretion.

You didn’t want to destroy her name, but to excuse *your *behavior you told everyone that your wife is an adulteress.

You told -]your /-]her children that she’s having an affair.

And now you’re looking for help and support because, after all of that, you still somehow manage, from the bottom of your heart, do all these wonderful things for her and she doesn’t appreciate you? :crying: Cry me a river.

 

[mafh]

To the OP:

I’ve have some thoughts about your situation.

1. You have to accept that divorce may be the only answer that makes sense. It’s possible that the marriage is so dysfunctional that it can’t be saved. Honestly, it really sounds that way to me based on everything you’ve told us. Your telling everyone in your family and social group about her infidelity probably puts the marriage beyond repair just by itself, not to mention everything else that is going on.
2. You say that you feel like a doormat. The way to regain some feeling of control about the situation is to think of it as a business deal. You really want the deal to work, but you have some non-negotiables and if those aren’t agreed to, then you’ll have no other choice but to walk away. If you can manage to negotiate a cease fire with your wife, and have some very basic terms in place, then you may be able to achieve a sort of steady state where you can at least coexist in the same house. It’s not ideal, but it might be a good initial goal if you really want to avoid divorce. You can’t magically make her fall back in love with you, though… You’d just have to wait and see what happens.
3. You’ve got to stop keeping score. Stop counting how many people are on ‘her side’ and how many are on yours, as you did with the priests you consulted. Stop monitoring the degree of her religious observance – that is at her own discretion, and your attention to these details comes off as very controlling. Stop counting up all the ‘good’ things you’ve done and setting them aside all the bad things she’s done.
4. The changes you’ve made – stopping drinking, helping more around the house, paying more attention to the kids, not playing video games excessively… These are not ‘sacrifices’ as you called them, but are just you fixing things that were wrong with the marriage on your end. This is the sort of thing that you should have been doing all along during your marriage. These are good changes, it sounds like, and you should keep them up, but you need to stop talking about them as sacrifices.
5. You need some sort of counseling to work all this out. Go to marital counseling with your wife if she will agree to it. If not, then go to individual counseling.

Good luck.

 

[hydin]

Glad you are still checking in. You have a great deal of patience. It is hard when people don’t read previous threads to see if their is a reason for your responses but dive right in with what you need to do and stop doing. Thanks for the feedback on disclosure. No need to go further but the truth is the truth if it comes up and you want to share it is your choice.

You have and are open to reconciling, which EVERY couple is required to be open to according to Canon Law… so many somehow miss that and are very likely in sin. If one goes to confession and asks for forgiveness, the priest may speak the words but God knows the heart… God forgives, not the priest. If one (not you… general rant) is happy they divorced, did not get clergy approval to separate, and otherwise show they were not attempting to act within church teaching, and popes have said in moral issues like this ignorance is no excuse, they should have checked it out, then no other sin has been forgiven either… since. Scary thought.

Glad you checked out Al. much wisdom from a man who was divorced, and lived through it, took 5 years to look back and analyze his situation and has been counseling based on that and imago for many more years… I even enjoy having him point out my failings… he kind of works it in gently… but is usually right. and it is free. You asked about pulling… His example is using the lizard and safety of the lizard… it is a reference to that small part of our brain (reptilian piece, I can never remember the name) which is our instantaneous reaction before logical brain can catch up… it is the little guy who sends a chill up your spine when someone who you feared in the past, as a kid, speaks… Then logic takes over and you remember you are big now… It is the part of the brain that reacts and causes us to make amazing catches of things we drop… without even having time to move our eyes. It reacts something like 40,000 times faster than the logical brain… It is the lizard.

When that part is triggered in someone it stops logical function and reacts to protect what they are doing or feeling… He has articles on reliable membership and safety that go into detail. What you spouse is doing right now makes sense to her… or she would not do it… not that she is right… but in her mind it justified, for now. You are doing well. Sad part is studies show that when we change it may take 6th months for them to notice that it is real rather than this weeks temporary change and then another 6 months to believe it is real. that sucks… but it is worth it if you choose to reconcile… Just setting expectations. Al’s stuff is better than mine but I have been using it for years so if you have a topic that you wish you could get his take on let me know, here or by private message, and I will dig it up on his site and give you the link… Remember, Jesus is with you, He promised He would be, when things got bad… He won’t change your wife over night but He and the Holy Spirit have been known to “help” spouses see the light and choose to change. Ask them directly for what you want… It is your choice who to love. it is no one else’s, business, not even your wife’s… it is your love to give as you choose… as your heart and soul guides you. Praying hard for you and your family. trust… It will get harder before it gets easier, like anything else worth the effort…

 

[mavdragon]

Whoa.
Are you serious? You told everyone you know…

I did not tell everyone I know, only those people who cared about us and or I thought could help us.

You didn’t want to destroy her name, but to excuse *your *behavior you told everyone that your wife is an adulteress…

I did not excuse my behavior. I owned and have apologized, repented, and been forgiven by God for the things I have done. I told people about the sin because it was relevant for understanding of the situation so that I could seek healing for her, myself and our Children. If I posted her that I was having marriage difficulties, that could mean a thousand different things… I had to reveal the sin so that people who have experienced this can share there experience with this particular problem and give helpful council. I have not only revealed her part the best that I can understand it, but I also have revealed to all reading this thread of my own weaknesses in a effort to present as clear a picture as possible.

You told -]your /-]her children that she’s having an affair…

I told my children that she had an affair in an effort to explain my reactions that they had been witness to in order to apologize to them for my behavior and hopefully they can understand that I’m not just a evil person who wants to yell and scream at their mom. I also told them that mom is still a good person, who is just confused right now and likely is hurting and needs our support.

And now you’re looking for help and support because, after all of that, you still somehow manage, from the bottom of your heart, do all these wonderful things for her and she doesn’t appreciate you? :crying: Cry me a river.

I’m looking for help because I believe in God and in the thing he created called marriage which requires commitment and sacrifice. I do not believe the bottom of my heart is even relevant to this thread. I don’t know my own heart well enough to change it, so I turn to the one who does know my heart, Jesus. I’m reaching out to the body of Christ because that is what God calls me to do.

This has nothing to do with my not feeling appreciated for the things I do for her. It has everything to do with bringing my life into communion with God’s will.